 Poster: A snowHead
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Some snippets of possible interest in this article - especially about Crystal laying on complimentary buses which doesn't seem to tally from what I've read on other threads. It also mentions the financial pressure that the TOs must be feeling.
Nice quote from the skiweekends MD: “The last time we experienced a winter without significant snow was 150 years ago,”. He has a good memory to recall that grim winter of 130 BC (Before Carving). I imagine that snow cannon(s) were much less widely used in the mid 1800's so it must have been grim
http://www.theguardian.com/travel/2014/dec/21/alps-ski-resorts-snow-shortage-holidays
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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What a dreadful article! Is there actually a fact in it that's correct?
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Many operators were already feeling the pinch before the poor start to the season.~
~A strengthening pound was cited as one factor; |
If so, it was cited by people whose maths skills suggest they shouldn't be in business in the first place.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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"And have longer lunches"?
SCGB advocates skiing drunk now?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Who writes this rubbish
| Quote: |
| Even resorts that typically enjoy great snow cover are suffering. The glacier resort of Tignes in the French Alps currently has only 13 out of its 79 lifts operating; |
Tignes does not have 79 lifts. Maybe the Espace Killy does & currently there are approx. 50 open.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Must have written by an unpaid intern.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Look, this Doward fellow clearly knows his onions. He's done the right thing and got a couple of quotes from one of the fillies at The Club and the Great British Skier couldn't want for a better mouth piece than that.
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Factual point: the footer of these posts ... "More stories like this on SKI.HUB" ... is inaccurate at present, due to circumstances within my control. 'I'm not really doing social media at the moment'.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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"Inghams, together with sister companies Esprit Ski and Ski Total, is pleased to note that the main response from holidaymakers set for Christmas ski breaks with the company is one of delight"
Really?!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Comedy Goldsmith wrote: |
| 'I'm not really doing social media at the moment'. |
Lovely to see you still doing anti-social media though old boy.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Okanagan, #
I'm happy, but then I'm not going with Inghams
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"Argentiere" wouldn't have any lifts running, as it doesn't have any, as such.
The Grands Montets however is apparently really rather good with 5 or 6 lifts running, including the top cable car.
I believe Fraline has lifts running.
Despite the criticism of the tone, at the very least they should have got these basic facts correct.
Suggests that the author has no idea about skiing, snow or the Alps.
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You know it makes sense.
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@musher, Rather suspect that the Inghams customers' response may be more one of "accept the situation" than "delight" though.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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I've been skiing now for about twenty-five years, and I'd say that the incidence of Bad Years is about 1 in 5. The first two years I was learning, I had to detach skis and walk to the télécabine summit - I just assumed this was normal. Another year we were re-located to Val Thorens and it was completely green right up to the resort car park. Another year, we simply cancelled the whole holiday because it was obvious it wasn't going to be worth it (although 2 weeks later it dumped and was fine for the rest of the season). I remember it hitting 18ºC mid-February at 1500m where we were staying.
Travel hacks have a portfolio of articles they peddle, so it's no surprise that they get out and dust off the 'Catastrophic Conditions in the Alps' doom-and-gloom copy in these circumstances.
And while in good years you'll hear proponents of low-altitude resorts sing their praises, there's less emphasis on the statistical probability of no snow. In my experience, Christmas and New Year are just 'tricky' weeks, specially at lower altitudes - you'll probably be fine but every so often not.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Some Tosser in the free mirror paper given at the airport delighted in the rich having a rubbish Xmas due to lack of snow.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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As a final contribution to this thread, it's worth pointing out the Christmas snow forecast widely circulated by the chief executive of the SCGB (Frank McCusker) earlier this month and reported by numerous media over the past couple of weeks:
"Snow is forecast to fall and there will be plenty for all those heading out to the mountains for pre-season training and the Christmas period. If you are still wondering whether or not to go at Christmas - GO!"
[TNT Magazine, 5 December]
http://www.tntmagazine.com/travel/travel-advice/let-it-snow-let-it-snow-let-it-
"Generally speaking after this next cold spell the majority of resorts will open. The weekend of the 13/14 December is when resorts will swing into action ..."
[TravelMole.com, 12 December]
http://www.travelmole.com/news_feature.php?news_id=2014584&c=setreg®ion=2
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| msej449 wrote: |
| I've been skiing now for about twenty-five years, and I'd say that the incidence of Bad Years is about 1 in 5. |
Yep... Trouble is we haven't had for about 8 years now so a) people forget and b) we're due two on the bounce 
| madlondoner wrote: |
| Some Tosser in the free mirror paper given at the airport delighted in the rich having a rubbish Xmas due to lack of snow |
I think this is the basis for most of these articles - to satisfy and placate the revenge and envy urges of their readers
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Sounds a reasonable analysis?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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After years of entente cordiale do the recent posts provide evidence of a breakdown in diplomatic relations between @Comedy Goldsmith and admin ? We must be told 
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@red 27, err 2011 snowed before Xmas and then never again. Les Arcs at Easter was dire, everything above Vallandry closed just one thin strip down to la plagne link
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| admin wrote: |
What a dreadful article! Is there actually a fact in it that's correct?
| Quote: |
Many operators were already feeling the pinch before the poor start to the season.~
~A strengthening pound was cited as one factor; |
If so, it was cited by people whose maths skills suggest they shouldn't be in business in the first place. |
As much as we accuse foolish journalists of not knowing as much about skiing as they should, we are also quite happy to misquote their words: What the article actually says is:
| Quote: |
Many operators were already feeling the pinch before the poor start to the season. A survey by the Post Office Travel Money Ski Resort Report revealed that this year prices have dropped in 24 of the 27 resorts it examined.
A strengthening pound was cited as one factor; another was the fact that many resorts have felt compelled to cut prices. |
In other words, the strengthening pound was cited as a factor in reducing the price of ski holidays.
There's another thread about a Daily Mail article, and once again SH's were very swift to criticise the DM for inaccurate reporting. In fact, almost every thing they said was spot one.
| Quote: |
"Argentiere" wouldn't have any lifts running, as it doesn't have any, as such.
The Grands Montets however is apparently really rather good with 5 or 6 lifts running, including the top cable car.
I believe Fraline has lifts running.
Despite the criticism of the tone, at the very least they should have got these basic facts correct. |
I've never skiied in Chamonix, but I think it's fair enough if the Guardian got this wrong. Every website I can find, including Wikipedia seems to be wrong in suggesting "Argentière is the starting point for the Telepherique du Lognon cable car up to Les Grands Montets (3,295m)"
As for the lifts in Fraline being closed, well apart from the fact that France doesn't seem to have a ski resort called Fraline (Don't you hate it when jouralists make typos) it does have one called Flaine. At the time of writing, Flaine was indeed closed.
Last edited by After all it is free  on Mon 22-12-14 9:08; edited 1 time in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I remmeber a rubbish year a few years ago where kitzbuhel was green in the second week of January and morzine/avoriaz was basically unsociable after 1 in the first week of March.
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Unsociable! My goodness.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
snowed before Xmas and then never again
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@Boris,
What??
Where??
It hardly stopped snowing all season in Chamonix. We almost ran out of parking due to snow build up.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@foxtrotzulu,
Journalists get paid to get facts straight. I wouldn't mind if they said that Argentiere had the lifts open that are open. But to say that it had none open, when patently that's wrong suggests a number of schoolboy errors, possibly amongst:
- simply searching for "Argentiere" AND "open lifts" - which I could easily imagine will return "None" due to the common grouping into the Chamonix system
- searching for numbers of open lifts last week, which would indeed return none - to no-one's surprise.
If you want typo free posts from me, I can send you an invoice. 
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I don't care to actually read this but as its the guardian (and others) it probably actually means;
"we are excited and delighted to report that those filthy ski holidaying capitalists are going to have a thin time of it on the slopes this winter holiday season. It serves them right for having warm houses and working cars that are destroying the planet. Instead of going away skiing they should have volunteered to pay the cost of their holidays in more taxes that would have kept a few more public sector employment entitlees in work to help look after the poor"
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You know it makes sense.
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@robboj, you know, I don't even think there's as much malice involved as that.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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In the spirit of @robboj's interpretation of the article, see this from the Daily Mash
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Poster: A snowHead
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| foxtrotzulu wrote: |
| There's another thread about a Daily Mail article, and once again SH's were very swift to criticise the DM for inaccurate reporting. In fact, almost every thing they said was spot one. |
Was this the same Daily Mail article that used a summer photo of Arc 1950 to illustrate the story?
I'm in my 6th week of being in the Alps this winter, so I think I'm in a good position to give some "on the spot" comments about how good/bad the conditions are in a few resorts. My trouble with that Daily Mail article, as with many I've read where I have more "insider" information than the casual reader is expected to have, is not their cherry-picking of facts (which are sometimes accurate) but the tone, the spin, the forced controversy which together gives an extremely inaccurate reflection of reality. Sure, it's bad in Les Arcs compared to how you would expect it to be (I've spent the last 12 Christmases here), but all this week there has been a fair amount open (increasingly so as the week goes on) and conditions on the higher slopes are extremely skiable. The main thing that the DM article completely get wrong is that Tabitha and Tarquinn are not having a frightfully terrible time. Everyone I've spoken to is having fun and is pleased to be here. The weather is lovely, everyone is in a Christmassy spirit and there's enough decent skiing to go around. So on a pedantic fact-check the DM might be accurate but it's reporting is wide of the mark, as it so often seems to be (whenever I've had the misfortune of being required to read it).
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| foxtrotzulu wrote: |
| admin wrote: |
What a dreadful article! Is there actually a fact in it that's correct?
| Quote: |
Many operators were already feeling the pinch before the poor start to the season.~
~A strengthening pound was cited as one factor; |
If so, it was cited by people whose maths skills suggest they shouldn't be in business in the first place. |
As much as we accuse foolish journalists of not knowing as much about skiing as they should, we are also quite happy to misquote their words: What the article actually says is:
| Quote: |
Many operators were already feeling the pinch before the poor start to the season. A survey by the Post Office Travel Money Ski Resort Report revealed that this year prices have dropped in 24 of the 27 resorts it examined.
A strengthening pound was cited as one factor; another was the fact that many resorts have felt compelled to cut prices. |
In other words, the strengthening pound was cited as a factor in reducing the price of ski holidays. |
It certainly wasn't my intention to change the meaning by what I quoted but anyway your interpretation doesn't make sense either.
So the operators are feeling the pinch because the pound has strengthened and the resorts have cut prices?
Each of these factors is of benefit to the operators.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Boris wrote: |
| @red 27, err 2011 snowed before Xmas and then never again. Les Arcs at Easter was dire, everything above Vallandry closed just one thin strip down to la plagne link |
Eh? EOSBers were skiing VT just fine at Easter 2011, and even if there wasn't blower pow over our heads there were more than enough overnight freshies to score plenty of nice line on a few days.
Having been to the Paradiski a number of times consecutively when younger (& when snowmaking coverage was much worse) I'd never have considered Vallandry a viable skiing option early or late season anyway.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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December is not an indicator of how good or bad winter would be. But overall the article is not very wrong in its description of the current snow situation. One of the problems this time is that some people might have chosen a "wrong" resort for their needs. But even if skiing is not up to expectations the sun is shining, atmosphere is festive and resorts are doing there best to provide guests with entertainment and trying to open for skiing as much as they can. Great weather for paragliding and I saw a group of Chinese tourists on a mountain biking excursion yesterday. They didn't look unhappy or disappointed.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@under a new name, We must have been at cross purposes. I was commenting on your point that Argentiere doesn't have any lifts.
@rob@rar,
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Was this the same Daily Mail article that used a summer photo of Arc 1950 to illustrate the story?
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Yes. All the photos relating to the current lack of snow were taken by a photographer called Dominic Ebenbichler between 28-30 November 2014. The photo of Arc 1950 was captioned "Temperatures in the Alps were recently revealed to be rising faster than anywhere else in the world" and is in part of the story unrelated to the current conditions but focussing on the long term trends. I think that's fair enough isn't it?
| Quote: |
I'm in my 6th week of being in the Alps this winter, so I think I'm in a good position to give some "on the spot" comments about how good/bad the conditions are in a few resorts. My trouble with that Daily Mail article, as with many I've read where I have more "insider" information than the casual reader is expected to have, is not their cherry-picking of facts (which are sometimes accurate) but the tone, the spin, the forced controversy which together gives an extremely inaccurate reflection of reality. Sure, it's bad in Les Arcs compared to how you would expect it to be (I've spent the last 12 Christmases here), but all this week there has been a fair amount open (increasingly so as the week goes on) and conditions on the higher slopes are extremely skiable. The main thing that the DM article completely get wrong is that Tabitha and Tarquinn are not having a frightfully terrible time. Everyone I've spoken to is having fun and is pleased to be here. The weather is lovely, everyone is in a Christmassy spirit and there's enough decent skiing to go around. So on a pedantic fact-check the DM might be accurate but it's reporting is wide of the mark, as it so often seems to be (whenever I've had the misfortune of being required to read it).
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I genuinely can't see anything in the DM article that includes any " tone, the spin, the forced controversy which together gives an extremely inaccurate reflection of reality". As we have said elsewhere it actually turned out to be unduly optimistic. Were you getting confused and meant the Guardian article? If you do mean the Guardian article then, once again, I can't see what you mean. It never says or implies that anyone isn't having a fantastic time. Obviously those people who have received a refund from their operators might not be having a fab time. Anyone being bussed in to a different resort might be a tad disappointed too. By all means criticise the Guardian or the Daily Mail, but if we are accusing them of inaccuracy then surely we have to be fair and accurate in our criticisms?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Journalists are employed to write stories, provide comment, or occassionaly provide an accurate (if not un-biased) report of actual events.
In some instances the writing is sufficiently good that readers and advertisers pay money for this service. The Guardian lost £19.4m last year, and £26.6m the previous year.
Draw your own conclusuions.
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| Boris wrote: |
| @red 27, err 2011 snowed before Xmas and then never again. Les Arcs at Easter was dire, everything above Vallandry closed just one thin strip down to la plagne link |
Indeed - Here is Peisey Vallandry at Easter in 2011 - Pretty grim as you say.
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| WindOfChange wrote: |
Journalists are employed to write stories, provide comment, or occassionaly provide an accurate (if not un-biased) report of actual events.
In some instances the writing is sufficiently good that readers and advertisers pay money for this service. The Guardian lost £19.4m last year, and £26.6m the previous year.
Draw your own conclusuions. |
Much as I loathe the Guardian I think we are extrapolating a bit too far too cast judgement on the quality of writing based upon the financial results.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@foxtrotzulu, I can see that you can't see the DM's spin. Maybe that because you aren't in the Alps at the moment so don't have the context for the article? Whatever the reason, the tone of that article is not reflected the the discussions I'm having with people in Les Arcs at the moment.
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FAQ
