What a tool!

A snowHead

Are you aware of the piste i am talking about. Balme Blue @ Le Tour.

If your last post is correct, then everyone (thousands a day) are wrong. What you and I are disagreeing about is the definition of passing safely.

I can't understand what you define as safely? What conditions need to be in place to get past someone in your version?

A snowHead

@bezthespaniard, no, never skied in Chamonix. My definition of "passing safely" is allowing enough room so that you don't need to shout a warning or require in some other way the skier in front of you to change their behaviour. And not colliding with them, obviously. Is that a difficult definition to understand?

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

@bezthespaniard, I still think you are just trolling or I hope so. Either that you have no self awareness of what you've written. I really don't care what you write but I do hope in reality you don't behave how you have written. Otherwise you need to do yourself and others a favour and go back to ski school and learn the FIS rules for your sake and others. Otherwise how many ski instructors and experienced skiers need to tell you are wrong before you are big enough to grasp the point?

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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

The situation I'm talking about is on a slope about 6 foot wide. You can never pass far away enough away to avoid the unexpected so in your version, you can never pass anyone even though everyone is cruising at different speeds.

People in this slope are not turning, everyone is going straight as it is very flat. If you stop, you have to walk from then on for about 15 mins. Everyone cruises past each other and most people say something as they pass you.

I see nothing wrong.

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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

I genuinely think that you guys are misunderstanding what my point is...

I agree with you, that on steep slopes, you should have patience and wait until a safe passing point is there.

However, on flat blue 'roads' that require no turning then i see no reason why you can't pass people and give a small warning as you pass or at least say thanks.

Experienced instructors in Cham agree, most skiers on the slope do it and it is common sense.

Shouting at someone because you want them to move as you speed past is dangerous.

After all it is free

None so blind as those that won't see.

@bezthespaniard, I'm talking about flat blue 'roads'. I've never seen anyone shout a verbal warning on a regular piste as they wanted to pass, only on cat tracks.

all that pole clicking really gets on my chicken fillets.

Better to just STFU and/or stick one on 'em like Pierre does in the video

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@bezthespaniard, how long have you been skiing? Which resorts?

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

Then if you are also talking about flat roads we will not agree.

Basic politeness imho.

I also recommend you don't head to Cham any time soon or you will only get annoyed at everyone being polite to one another.

The next time someone comes out of nowhere to pass close by with no verbal warning i will applaud their perfect piste etiquette

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You know it makes sense.

@bezthespaniard, no one is agreeing with you. At which point will you grasp you are wrong?

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

A snowHead

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

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@kesone1,

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Ok, I can't say quiet any longer. The up hill skier is in the wrong, end of story just like a rear end impact when driving.

Last year I was taken out by an uphill skier on a red run in vallandry, i am best described as a nervy intermediate, on a lesson working well within my abilities. Slowed down as coming into resort and played dodge the signage, he thought I was going to go one way and I went the other, bang, that was both of us skidding down a run, skis and poles everywhere. Luckily the only damage was a pole, however he tried to blame me as I changed direction, it was at this time I learnt that my esf is very good at swearing in English as it was another Brit involved. The story could have been very different.

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Cat track etiquette seens different in the USA When I skied there (in various areas in Tahoe) it seemed common place for overtaking skiers to shout "on your left (right)" to warn the downhill skier. Obviously the downhill skier had no obligation to take any notice, but most did and made room. It all seemed very sociable and friendly.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

After all it is free

Ok, so I just emailed a friend of mine to sense check my views on this.

Antoine is an instructor in the Alps with over 30 years experience and not only is the most incredible skier I have ever seen but also very highly regarded.
I asked him his opinion on the matter and to look at the thread to see if I was being unreasonable or unclear.

His response is below:

"Ha - what a read! What have you got into now?!

Firstly, you should not shout at a downhill skier especially not to get them to adjust their trajectory, speed or anything else for that matter. It can be dangerous and rude for an uphill skier to vocalise his request for others to pay him attention or consider him as they ski. The uphill skier should assess the situation and only overtake when it is safe to do so, in full control.
This is your view too, no? Some of the other posters are getting agitated about this but are misunderstanding your position. It seems you all agree on this point.

The issue of 'roads' as you put it, it different though. Over here, a few of us are teaching skiers to be more polite and considered towards others when on tight, narrow transition pistes. Especially Maison Balme at Le Tour which you mentioned. We encourage people to alert others to their position and say thank you when they pass. It is clearly working because there are less issues at that end of the valley and a better atmosphere.

I see no contradiction to FIS in this. Some people are maintaining that it is contradictory to the rules but this is certainly not the case. If you shout out to others on a more challenging slope, as my example earlier, this is a lack of respect and ignores rule 4 as well. On transition pistes, with a gentle pace and low gradient, then I think it is the right thing to do if you alert others to your intention to pass. It also matches well with Rule 1.

A simple 'A droit' would be useful and a 'merci' would also be advised. Again, we over here are trying to raise the standards and politeness of skiing in general.

Too many instructors, I am sorry to say this but English in particular, are very rude on the piste. It is a growing problem here but is the exception, not the rule. Perhaps they are keeping to the regulations a little to strictly or interpreting them in their own rigid way... they would do better to allow for old fashioned good manners to prevail! It used to be the French but only at certain unnamed schools... Wink

One last point - FIS Rule 4. No skier would ever pass another if this rule was enforced to the letter. There is no circumstance when it is 100% guaranteed that you could avoid an unexpected movement by the downhill skier. You can minimise the risk but never ensure that you can avoid all eventualities. Especially on more narrow slopes, skiers will be passing each other within a close proximity of one another - in these tight instances all parties should remain in control, at a reasonable speed and should be communicating with others on the slope.

It is common sense.

Ciao.

@rob@rar, When I've seen it on long schusses the uphill person may call while slowing, if the downhill skier obviously notices and makes way then they go past, if not then the person stays behind. I don't think he's talking about the arrogant idiots who shout just before they pass.

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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

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Whether you learnt to ski at 3 or 30, we were all rubbish once. Novice skiers are unpredictable, trying to concentrate on a lot of things at once. Also, there will always be people negotiating blacks for the first time, and while more experienced, they may still be less predictable.

But heres the thing, they paid there bucks same as you so they have every right to be there.

@rob@rar, +1 everything you said

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

@kesone1, v predictable. wink

I think you will find some people are agreeing with me and they are called judges, lawyers and the EU. You are indeed right that the Daily Fail and Xenophobes don't agree with me but anyone with a brain, morals and an understanding of the law does. This guy thinks he know better than FIS and ski instructors. I don't think I know the law better than judges. That is the difference. You will have to do better than that, a lot better;-)

A snowHead

A snowHead

@bezthespaniard, What do you do when people can't hear you because of wind noise, earmuffs or if they are listening to music?

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

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It's the same cycling, on mountain bike trails/bridleways etc it is not considered good form to come up behind someone walking without letting them know you are there, otherwise you scare the hell out of them as you pass.

I think that in 'SOME' circumstances saying hello or just making a noise on flat tracks may be advisable, it does not negate your responsibility as the uphill skier in any way, but as said above, if on a narrow track no one is allowed to pass (how can you do that 100% safely if you are keeping your speed under control?) then everyone ends up poling.

I would not alert a novice, they have enough to concentrate on. A smooth looking skier who is playing about a bit then I may, just to let them know not to suddenly decide to jump into the forest or up a rise. OK, it's not very often I have ever done this, but I can see circumstances where it may be appropriate.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

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I'm not being judgemental, I'm just sharing an experience. When I was skiing in the USA it seemed common on cat tracks for an overtaking skier to shout a warning, often acknowledged by a wave by the downhill skier. Right or wrong, that's how business is done there.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

@bezthespaniard, you are a troll, and Antoine's english is very good, best regards to him! wink

Unlike US how many nations ski in FR resorts?

After all it is free

@rob@rar, How about this scenario... skier A is making predictable turns on the left of a wide piste, using about a third of the piste. Skier B is slightly behind, on the right of the piste, again using about one third of the available width. As they become level skier A makes a swooping arc coming over to the right and there is a collision.

At the point of collision both skiers are adjacent to each other but in each others blind spots. Now either no skier should be allowed to pass in this situation, or perhaps a cheery 'Hello' may have alerted one of them.

I am just playing devils advocate here as I find the entrenchment of attitudes may be missing the point.

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One scenario I have problems being able to stop in good time is where some numpty decides to move laterally across a schuss where everyone else is schussing it. I know that technically speaking it's my fault if I clatter matey boy, but it peeves me a bit. Never actually taken anyone out doing this but have taken one for the team (with round of applause from passing skiers).

Help!!

What a tool!

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