Ski Club 2.0 Home
Snow Reports
FAQFAQ

Mail for help.Help!!

Log in to snowHeads to make it MUCH better! Registration's totally free, of course, and makes snowHeads easier to use and to understand, gives better searching, filtering etc. as well as access to 'members only' forums, discounts and deals that U don't even know exist as a 'guest' user. (btw. 50,000+ snowHeads already know all this, making snowHeads the biggest, most active community of snow-heads in the UK, so you'll be in good company)..... When you register, you get our free weekly(-ish) snow report by email. It's rather good and not made up by tourist offices (or people that love the tourist office and want to marry it either)... We don't share your email address with anyone and we never send out any of those cheesy 'message from our partners' emails either. Anyway, snowHeads really is MUCH better when you're logged in - not least because you get to post your own messages complaining about things that annoy you like perhaps this banner which, incidentally, disappears when you log in :-)
Username:-
 Password:
Remember me:
durr, I forgot...
Or: Register
(to be a proper snow-head, all official-like!)

What a tool!

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
To my mind that guy's problem was poor judgement. He didn't have the skills to pass that group safely but did it anyway. It makes sense sometimes to slow down, relax and wait. Ther are all kinds of skills you can practice on a gentle path.
snow report
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
When on a path always pass a 'beginner snake' on the 'drop' side rather than the 'wall' side. They tend not to get too close to the edge. In fact I always pass everyone on the 'drop' side. I have a magic snowboard and gliding past tucked skiers is one of the great joys of life.
ski holidays
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@Snow Hound, Blimey, it must be magic. I've never seen a snowboard that was any good at all in the sort of gentle schuss we are talking about.
latest report
 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
@emwmarine,
Quote:

The ESF instructor was instinctively protecting his group of begginners

Very Happy Very Happy that's a great defence.

I didn't see him land the blow. I think he put his hand our to protect a skier who was clearly out of control. In a friendly, French sort of a way.

Besides, he's probably the sort of chap who wears full body armour to come down a blue run.
snow report
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
I disagree with most of the posts on here about this.

They guy with the camera is skiing at a reasonable pace and tries to go right on the outside of the learners - the guy learning turns into him at the last second and clips him which takes him towards the 2nd learner.

No one is really to blame - I see this happen so many times when I am on the slopes. The gopro guy should shout out to say where he is going, that it what I do, but I am fed up of people saying you should be stopping when you come to people learning.

The ESF guy is in the wrong in a massive way but I do not think the guy with the video is doing anything wrong.
ski holidays
 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
Snow Hound wrote:
When on a path always pass a 'beginner snake' on the 'drop' side rather than the 'wall' side. They tend not to get too close to the edge. In fact I always pass everyone on the 'drop' side. I have a magic snowboard and gliding past tucked skiers is one of the great joys of life.


I used to do this but then an out of control beginner, in a lesson on a narrow red run, hit me and we both went off the edge into the trees.

Now I shout out where I am passing and tuck up. The issue is that beginners use the edge of the piste to turn and fail to leave a gap for passers.

Leaving a gap should be a first lesson imho
ski holidays
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
bezthespaniard wrote:
I disagree with most of the posts on here about this.

Sad

Quote:
They guy with the camera is skiing at a reasonable pace and tries to go right on the outside of the learners - the guy learning turns into him at the last second and clips him which takes him towards the 2nd learner.

Well 'left', but there was plenty of room on the right. No, the learner does a quite predictable turn which he starts well before the arrival of go-pro boy. Go-pro boy had plenty of time to either slow down or stop, or go round on the right, if he had the ability.

Quote:
I see this happen so many times when I am on the slopes.

Perhaps that says it all.....

Quote:
The gopro guy should shout out to say where he is going, that it what I do,

Shouting a low level skiers can distract them and lead to problems, the learner is doing nothing wrong, why should he /she be shouted at!?


Quote:
but I am fed up of people saying you should be stopping when you come to people learning.

No need to stop unless you can't either go round safely or are incapable of controlling your own speed and line till an opportunity to pass occurs.


Quote:
The ESF guy is in the wrong in a massive way but I do not think the guy with the video is doing anything wrong.

The ESF guy doesn't really punch him, he does stick out his arm, the other guy has still got most of his speed and largely skis into it. Looks like there was time and space to ski around the instructor if he had the ability he thinks he has.[/b]
snow conditions
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
pam w wrote:
To my mind that guy's problem was poor judgement. He didn't have the skills to pass that group safely but did it anyway. It makes sense sometimes to slow down, relax and wait. Ther are all kinds of skills you can practice on a gentle path.


This exactly!! Even worse indoors. I ski a lot faster than most (in control btw!) so just wait at the top for a gap - Nothing worse than getting a pants run in, and I dont want to be a danger for other - for the sake of a few minutes, we are all safe and happy!
ski holidays
 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
I'm certain this vid has been posted and discussed before.

I often get stuck behind slower skiers on paths, but if I don't feel I can safely pass them I'll just cruise behind them til it widens. It's a ski holiday not rush hour - relax!!
ski holidays
 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Did the instructor actually try to punch him. or more likely tried to grab his jacket to stop him to give him a telling off, but numpty was going too fast. If he intended to punch then an open hand to the chest isn't very effective.
snow conditions
 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
bezthespaniard wrote:
Leaving a gap should be a first lesson imho


There was a mile of space to the right. Go-Pro boy attempts to pass on the left. The beginners turn was entirely predicable; the group is following the instructor down the left of the track. Anyone skiing with anticipation and control could have easily threaded a safe path through those beginners. If you have those skills then overtake, if you don't then don't. It's not a race.
latest report
 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
bezthespaniard wrote:
Snow Hound wrote:
When on a path always pass a 'beginner snake' on the 'drop' side rather than the 'wall' side. They tend not to get too close to the edge. In fact I always pass everyone on the 'drop' side. I have a magic snowboard and gliding past tucked skiers is one of the great joys of life.


I used to do this but then an out of control beginner, in a lesson on a narrow red run, hit me and we both went off the edge into the trees.

Now I shout out where I am passing and tuck up. The issue is that beginners use the edge of the piste to turn and fail to leave a gap for passers.

Leaving a gap should be a first lesson imho


No need to shout - just follow the 10 FIS rules. Shouting is stupid and would only work if there is one person in front of you .... and even then, how does the person in front knows that it is him being shouted at? Read the FIS rules, get an instructor and you will be fine.
snow report
 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Looking again, if the idiot had skis on rather than those stupid things, we could have ridden the bank and avoided them completely!
ski holidays
 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@PaulC1984, agreed. Actually with long skis it's quite likely the guy he collided with might even have seen his ski tips much earlier as well and possibly could have turned earlier to avoid him.
latest report
 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@needles, its another reason why any idiot with blade needs shooting Happy
latest report
 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@bezthespaniard, it is easy to say that leaving a gap should be a first lesson, but beginners can't always turn to order. Not that the class in this clip was in any way erratic.
snow conditions
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
bezthespaniard wrote:
Snow Hound wrote:
When on a path always pass a 'beginner snake' on the 'drop' side rather than the 'wall' side. They tend not to get too close to the edge. In fact I always pass everyone on the 'drop' side. I have a magic snowboard and gliding past tucked skiers is one of the great joys of life.


I used to do this but then an out of control beginner, in a lesson on a narrow red run, hit me and we both went off the edge into the trees.

Now I shout out where I am passing and tuck up. The issue is that beginners use the edge of the piste to turn and fail to leave a gap for passers.

Leaving a gap should be a first lesson imho


Technically you hit him!
I suspect you are a troll if not then you should be.
latest report
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
bezthespaniard wrote:
Now I shout out where I am passing and tuck up.
Do you shout "GET OUT OF THE WAY YOU STUPID BEGINNER, I'M VERY IMPORTANT DON'T YOU KNOW"

rolling eyes
snow report
 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
I think we may be in a perpetual circle whereby just as we think everyone agrees that Mr Gopro was in the wrong, some other moron pops up arguing that it was the beginners' fault for being in the way rolling eyes
ski holidays
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
What a total ass clown.
snow report
 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
I've looked at the slo-mo bit several times frame by frame and am coming to the conclusion that the instructor was not trying to flatten the idiot (although I think someone should! wink ).

He lifts his arm and hand and the ski pole remains in his hand the whole time. I think he was trying to catch hold of the idiot to be honest, which what I would have tried to do as well. The tool on blades ASSUMES the instructor was attempting to assault him and posts as the "aggrieved" party. If the instructor had held him, then maybe he would have had the FIS rules beaten into him, who knows but I'm pretty sure that was not a right hook he was avoiding, more a grab at his clothing to slow him down and give him a good talking to.
ski holidays
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@Samerberg Sue, I agree that it wasn't a punch - More like a block than a grab IMO.
ski holidays
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
No one fell over, the difference in speed was very small. Mountains. Molehills. French people not being able to fight. No dramas here.
ski holidays
 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Just because we haven't finished piling on Go-Pro Boy and his supporters Toofy Grin : There's another reason why shouting at beginners when passing them can be a Bad Idea - if they turn their head to look at you then their shoulders, torso, then legs and skis tend to follow...
latest report
 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
@Samerberg Sue, @foxtrotzulu, disagree, he was just waving his fist around haphazardly (although Mr ESF tells me he is an experienced fist waver) and Mr Gopro was thoughtless enough to ski into his fist chin first Wink
latest report
 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Though @bezthespaniard is clearly a bit deluded about responsibilities, I do agree that there are occasions for shouting out an "on the left", on the right" (obviously that works a bit better here! wink ) such as on a cat track when passing a competent skier/boarder just in case they were about to do something eratic - but still if they choose to ignore you then it is totally up to you to have the ability to get round safely or just slow down.
Doing this to a beginner is ridiculous, it is pretty much guaranteed to get them to look up the hill, get the weight/position all wrong and do some sort of even less predictable movement (ie crash)


Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Mon 22-12-14 19:28; edited 3 times in total
snow report
 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
BTW, I did not intend to say Movement Skis are unpredictable or used by beginners, seems the snowhead artificial intelligence is becoming sentient and auto-linking to its favourite skis! Madeye-Smiley
snow conditions
 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
If someone behinds me shouts I'm much more likely to do something erratic (certainly in terms of my skiing, and quite possibly in terms of reasonable behaviour to fellow slope users). If you have to shout you're almost certainly in the wrong. You either have enough room to pass safely or you don't. Expecting the person below you to modify the speed or line they might take because you are travelling faster and want to pass is just plain wrong.
latest report
 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@Legend., If you check the first skier carefully (just post collision 0:13s), you might see the skiers downhill ski coming off the ground and o/s edge twisting up to vertical. He definitely fell on to his inside ski and then most probably over. May not be fast for you, but for an early beginner, that's a scary track (we've all been there, but may not remember it), let alone being hit from behind.

@foxtrotzulu, Definitely a punch IMO...ESF retracted his elbow before releasing it (possibly into Tool-boy's shoulder?).
snow report
 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Quote:

there are occasions for shouting out an "on the left", on the right"

in which language...?

there's never such an occasion unless you've messed up and about to crash into one of your own group, or are about to shoulder barge past me. ditto pole clicking (we had that discussion last season iirc).
ski holidays
 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
If it's narrow and I'm overtaking, a double-click of the poles usually makes them aware without causing erratic moves (the last thing you want).
latest report
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@andy, Ooops Embarassed Did we discuss it?
latest report
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
ALQ wrote:
@andy, Ooops Embarassed Did we discuss it?
on atleast a couple of occasions, one thread in particular getting quite heated.
snow report
 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
I just find it barmy how all of you think.

I'm not trying to troll or be rude as some people above BUT the attitude on here seems to be 'it is always the fault of the uphill skier' and you all claim it is because they are out of control..

Look at the video again. The facts are as follows:

The guy is trying to judge which side to take as he approaches.
He isn't going particularly fast.
You can see that he is waiting to choose a side in case the beginner keeps going towards the drop.
He chooses the inside but the beginner turns and doesn't leave a lot of room.
He clips him and that sends him towards the 2nd beginner.
He regains control and avoids the beginner and is then hit by the ESF tutor.
it is intended as a punch but fails to land.

The beginner is not at fault but neither is the gopro guy. He is judging the slope and controlling his speed. He also stays in control when he is hit.

But according to everyone in here, he is out of control or skiing badly. Are you watching the same video i am?

It comes across as very arrogant when everyone immediately assumes that this wouldn't have happened if he could better control himself...

On narrow slopes, the occasional clip is guaranteed now and again. Even if you take all precautions then there is still a chance of the rare hit when something unexpected happens.

the thing everyone is ignoring is the ESF reaction. It is out of order. I think violence is always terrible but if that happened to me I would be having stern words with ESF guy...

can people please stop climbing on their high horse - this could happen to anyone regardless of ability.
snow conditions
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
rob@rar wrote:
..one thread in particular getting quite heated.


There's a surprise.
snow conditions
 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
yes i believe so.


roffle at labelling a blader as "experienced skier".

slow blader, desperate to catch up with his mates more like.

although I have been known to mix up a long turn carving session thru a group of ESF beginners Wink
ski holidays
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
andy wrote:
Quote:

there are occasions for shouting out an "on the left", on the right"

in which language...?

there's never such an occasion unless you've messed up and about to crash into one of your own group, or are about to shoulder barge past me. ditto pole clicking (we had that discussion last season iirc).


Disagree.

I sing to myself when i ski (yes I'm mad) so people should hear me, but if I'm overtaking and they dont see me I say escuse me, escuse moi or coming through, left left. Thanks!

Most of the time people dont react and i get past. Now and again someone realises I'm coming thru and becomes aware of me so they move over.

Always polite and useful to make people aware.
ski holidays
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
bezthespaniard wrote:
Always polite
Wrong. Polite would be giving people the space they need as you pass them. If there's not space, don't overtake. They have just as much right too be on the hill as you, including not feeling like they are being hassled by somebody being them.
latest report
 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
go pro guy was 100% at fault

actually the only occaison for saying something is if you DO try to squeeze thru and the lower skier suddenly moves to one side

BUT if you can't put in a check or sudden snowplough in that instance then you are in the wrong.

if you come past me, assume I'm deaf, and blind in the eye on that side.
snow conditions
 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
jbob wrote:
bezthespaniard wrote:
Snow Hound wrote:
When on a path always pass a 'beginner snake' on the 'drop' side rather than the 'wall' side. They tend not to get too close to the edge. In fact I always pass everyone on the 'drop' side. I have a magic snowboard and gliding past tucked skiers is one of the great joys of life.


I used to do this but then an out of control beginner, in a lesson on a narrow red run, hit me and we both went off the edge into the trees.

Now I shout out where I am passing and tuck up. The issue is that beginners use the edge of the piste to turn and fail to leave a gap for passers.

Leaving a gap should be a first lesson imho


Technically you hit him!
I suspect you are a troll if not then you should be.


Absolutely not. The skier was turning predictably in the middle of the slope.
I was in control and skiing pretty slowly and kept a wide gap on the drop side.
As I passed, the beginner suddenly changed how they were turning and went sharp right, towards me and the drop.
I had no time to adjust and they skied into me and carried us off the slope.
ski holidays



Terms and conditions  Privacy Policy