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Struggling To Choose New Skis

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Hi everyone,
Off the back of a trip today to Ellis Brigham, Snow & Rock and a few hours online reading ski reviews I'm struggling to decide on what pair of on piste skis to choose and I'm hoping someone can point me in the right direction, there are so many options and so many opinions I really am struggling.

I'm a 33 year old male who is an intermediate/advanced skier who is happy on red runs and has booked a set of 7 lessons with an ESF instructor to perfect my technique and hopefully take on a few more difficult red and easier black runs this January and March. I don't like going too fast, at my current level it's more important for me to get the technique right.

I've been looking at the following skis, but I'm hoping to get some guidance from the experts and their thought's on these skis and other options for my level:

Atomic Tempter Ti Arc 2015
Head iSupershape Magnum 2015


I've skied the last couple of seasons on Salomon X Wing Tornado (170cm) and the ESF instructor told me in March this year that the ski is now a little too short for me. I do like my old Salomon skis, we've been through a lot together the last 2 seasons Smile but going purely off online reviews the 2015 don't seem to fair as well as other brands.


Price isn't really an issue, I just want to make sure I get the right ski as I struggle with my confidence levels initially and want to make sure I get the best ski to help me get down the slopes and also push me a little so I can improve. At this stage I'm not too bothered about going off piste, I'm just looking for the best on piste ski for my level.


I'm heading to Morzine the first 2 weeks of January so I'm looking to get the skis asap.



Massive thanks in advance.




Chris
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Hey Chris, I have been on the Heads a couple times, highly recommend them as a piste ski.

Mind you as I'm used to being on fattys any piste ski feels really easy to ski on piste Toofy Grin
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Hi SkiG,
Thanks for your reply, much appreciated. I've only ever skied on Salomon X Wing Tornado's. I'm completely open to suggestions, I'm not set on getting another pair of Salomon's, just looking for opinion's on the best 2014/2015 on piste ski for an intermediate/advanced skier. Are there any particular Head skis you would recommend?

Thanks again,



Chris
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How tall/heavy are you? At the recent EB/Snowheads test day at Braehead I really loved the Head Titans, which are a slightly wider version of the Magnums. If you're heavy enough to drive them easily then I'd recommend them, but if you're lighter and maybe a bit tentative then they might not be the best.

I've not come across the Tempers but they sound fairly similar to the Heads from the website descriptions - both are aimed at high speed piste skiing. If you're not intending high speeds then they might just be harder work than you really need them to be.
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How tall are you? How much do you weigh?
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Sorry, should have been clearer, I meant the iSupershape Magnums (although I haven't been on the 2015s)

For what its worth actually I have a friend who instructs for a living (for the last 30 years!) and he skis a pair, and strongly recommended them to another friend who I would have thought is something similar in ability to you, think they would be a good buy.

Do make sure that you get the right length, theres a temptation to go shorter as it is perceived to make it easier to ski, not true!
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Hi Valkyrie & Oceanic, thanks for your replies, I'm 12st 12lb, 6ft 2". I'm not particularly ready to go really fast, technique and control of my speed are more important to me at the moment, as the fast I go, the harder I'll fall Smile
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@ChrisKitchen, the other thing I would say to you, is about your level. Not at all meant to be having a go or being mean, but from what you describe you would definitely not be considered an advanced skier, rather an intermediate. Just say that because you need to keep it in mind when you are taking advice on what ski is good for you.

Im about the same size and weight as you, and loved the Magnums, I do ski reasonably aggressively though.
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I also looked at exactly the same skis, Atomic Tempter Ti Arc 2015 and Head iSupershape Magnum 2015 as well as Volkl Code Speedwall S UVO 2015

I'm 5'10", 79 kg, and 67 years old - yep, an old giffer wink

Although my first choice was the Heads (thinking that the Volkls might be too much of a handful for me) for one reason or another in the end I went for the Volkls. I'm glad I did because they are truly epic, particularly when travelling fast on an edge, but you really have to drive them hard to get them singing.

The reason I'm saying this is that if you're not happy with travelling fast on an edge then get a forgiving ski that won't scare you or feel that its performance potential is far out of reach - you'll only feel frustrated.

I agree that the Head Magnums seem to be a good option.
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As @SkiG, says your description is of an intermediate skier. An advanced skier would ski all but the hardest blacks reasonably comfortably and be able to attack almost all reds.

Have a look at the Snowhead test reports they may give you some other ideas.
the Dynastar CR 74 Fluid skis I tested may be suitable the tests can be found under the Snowbase section. Also plenty of online reviews. It is rated more as an advanced ski but is very forgiving so will not punish the small mistakes you will make as an intermediate as harshly as most advanced skis would.

It is much more forgiving at lower speeds but as you improve the ski will be able to handle a much more aggressive style.

Two reviews of the ski.

http://www.skinet.com/skiing/products/gear/dynastar-chrome-74-fluid-x-2014


youtube.com/v/k6Br57gN-3Y







I would recommend trying skis at your level before buying though.
The ski above is subject to you being able to carve reasonably well on most groomed red runs.


Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads on Sun 14-12-14 22:48; edited 1 time in total
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@SkiG, thanks for your thought's, I completely take your point. It was the EFS instructor that I've skied with in January and March in 2013 & 2014 that classed me as an intermediate/advanced skier. I agree with your comments, I personally would class myself as an intermediate skier rather than advanced. I'm assuming that's because once I get going and with some confidence my technique apparently isn't that bad (when I first started sking I had a instructor that look me down difficult runs and I had two very bad falls and it's knocked my confidence ever since). Bearing all this in mine @SkiG, would you still recommend the Magmums?

@irie, thanks for your comments, you're certainly not an old giffer, they say life starts at 40, so that puts you at 27 in my book! Smile

I am looking for an on piste ski that will carry me though the next couple of seasons so I think I do need to consider a pair which will allow me to go faster on an edge as hopefully this will be the level I'm at in the future (hopefully!). @irie, could I ask what it was that made you go with the Volkls over the Heads and what it is that makes them truly epic? Also, if you were to get a new pair of Volkls now, what would you go for?


Thanks guys, massively appreciate your opinions, this is really helping me narrow the choice down Smile
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Hi @Speed098, thanks for your post, really useful information. With regards to my level I was just going off EFS instructors comments and also when I read on Snow & Rock and other sites the wide description of an intermediate/advanced skier. Given my confidence levels I personally wouldn't consider myself advanced.
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@ChrisKitchen,

I am not familiar with the two skis you mentioned initially so can not comment on them but from your later post something like the Dynastar would be a good choice as it will grow with you. The rocker on it really does make a difference but it has very strong edge hold for how forgiving the ski is. I was very surprised just how good the edge was for such an easy to turn ski.

Others here may be able to give you similar skis from other manufacturers.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Compared to your current sks the Magnums amd Tempters

A) slightly shorter turning radius.
B) much stiffer and higher performance
C) about thes width underfoot

They are both relatively short radius skis and shouldn't be skied too long. So this doesn't quite add up with what you were saying about wanting longer skis.

The million dollar question is why your instructor thought you needed longer skis.i can agree that you need better skis but that is not the same as longer.

A key issue is why you don't like going fast. Shorter skis with more turn radius feel more unstable at speed. If that is an issue that might be why your instructor is recommending something longer.
Going faster (within reason) is important. If you ski too slowly you will struggle to develop better technique. As you go faster you get more feedback and response from the skis.
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Compared to your current sks the Magnums amd Tempters

A) slightly shorter turning radius.
B) much stiffer and higher performance
C) about thes width underfoot

They are both relatively short radius skis and shouldn't be skied too long. So this doesn't quite add up with what you were saying about wanting longer skis.

The million dollar question is why your instructor thought you needed longer skis.i can agree that you need better skis but that is not the same as longer.

A key issue is why you don't like going fast. Shorter skis with more turn radius feel more unstable at speed. If that is an issue that might be why your instructor is recommending something longer.
Going faster (within reason) is important. If you ski too slowly you will struggle to develop better technique. As you go faster you get more feedback and response from the skis.
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 Poster: A snowHead
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I only got the Volkls a few weeks ago and spent 5 days on them in November this year in Austria (Hintertux) getting them dialled in. The edge grip is amazing even on ice and can carve turns at high speeds (for me) with complete confidence. But you have to drive them - going slow is OK but that's what I do either when skiing with my (much younger) wife to her Hot Chocolate fix, or when I'm knackered etc.

I came from using Rossignol Pursuit 16 Ti 170s for the last two years.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I agree with hyperkub.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Personally I would not buy new skis without advice from an instructor who knows your skiing and having tested the skis in resort. Certainly not in a UK shop unless I'd done the previous and certainly not based on the advice on an Internet forum.
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I'd better take my skis back then because I bought them in a UK shop without advice from an instructor and haven't tested them in resort before purchasing. Silly me. Happy


Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Mon 15-12-14 7:35; edited 1 time in total
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@TTT,

We somewhat agree twice in a day Shocked


See the bottom of my first post re trying the skis first at your level.

You can get recommendations here but see if you can demo them at a local fridge. Buying in the UK is fine as long as you know what you want people have been doing so for many many years.
If you can not demo at a fridge it may be worth compiling a list here of skis to try when on holiday.
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@TTT, a fair bit of the advice in this discussion is not offering a particular solution but aimed at giving the OP more knowledge. Thus in turn they can make a better informed choice. So I think an internet forum can be useful. If you don't feel it's useful you are under no obligation to participate.
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Thanks guys for your comments, it's really interesting hearing everyone's opinion's. The ESF instructor suggested longer skis as I'm 6ft 2" and my current skis come just below my chin and following a rather steep and icy red run last season (where he was watching me top to bottom) he suggested I would have more control with something slightly longer than a 170 and the problems I encountered on my way down weren't due to my technique as much and more due to the fact that we were now travelling at higher speeds.

In an ideal world I would try out several pairs of skis before I go out to Morzine or even whilst I'm out there. However, having skied on Salomon X Wing Tornado for a few years and enjoying the ski (except when they whizz off down the mountain!), I am just looking for a more up to date ski and was keen to know what other people have used and enjoy.

Once again, that's for all your comments, really appreciate it.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Are your skis Salomon X-Wing Tornados or X-Wing Tornado Ti's?
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Just Tornado's.
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ChrisKitchen

Trusting that your boots are more than suitable as they are the single most important piece of hard equipment, if they are not..............


If as you claim you are interested in advancing, it's high time to do so. It's in you Chris, not the equipment. Equipment is nice. But it's only as good as the skier.

Brands aside and many brands are more than great so I'll objectively refrain from any suggestion....., more than anything, going to a longer and therefore more beneficial ski is well overdue. No magic number in length but given your height alone I'd suggest at least, at least at a bare bones minimum 180cm+. The simple increase in length will prove your biggest equipment step forward. Whatever you ultimately go with make certain that it is suitable to your general output needs, conforming to what you already do above all what you want to do............. A pure "piste" ski as you are focused on could serve exceptional to your needs, but I would respectfully ask you in all candor to not overlook several all-arounders/"all mountain" skis whose radius is longer - typically 17M, 18M given the fact that overall as you progress your ability to deal with a wider variety of terrain (versatility) should be a concern. There are a number of brands who readily accomplish this without giving the user a waist width greater than typically 82 - 86. Think it over.

One way of substantially improving yourself and I have told this to many for years and years is once you've got your feet under you by what....., half the first day, most certainly by day two when on your own free from your instruction is to start at the top of the mountain, select a route(s) that are great runs, pleasing to you and cruise principally at your comfort level all the way to the bottom without stopping.

This is key.............., do not stop.

So many start and stop, start again and stop, start once more and stop, etc., etc............... and by the time they get to the bottom - if they've even ventured that distance - they've stopped (rested) numerous times. This breaks up continuity and works against developing/establishing better technique and getting a better feel for your advancing ability. You will significantly improve by doing the "non-stop" method. You'll see.
Along the way - the non-stop process, vary your speed, your turns, change terrain here and there, mix it up but never stop........., you thusly go in and out of both comfort zone and ability and along the way you improve more than you might imagine. Let yourself run as free as possible and give yourself the ability to assess along the way. Avoid the big mistake of taking a lunch break which crashes everything. God, when I think of all the people who are stuffing themselves over lunch for an hour or more only to go out afterward and expect to ski.......... Laughs! Too funny. *

I strongly suggest instead going in mid-day for no more than five minutes at most....., take a leak if need be, grab some chocolate milk and a donut if you were in the USA, but you're not, so instead a tarte aux pommes with some chocolate milk - or a stiff latte, some muesli perhaps, knock it down and head right back out on to the slopes and continue.

*You did of course have a substantial breakfast early on that includes the magic food - eggs - with plenty of strong tea or coffee (with milk and sugar) and 200mg. of ibuprofen that will take you through much of the day, later, after you've come in for the day and taken care of all your equipment, gotten some thorough nutritional replenishment (with one more 200mg. of ibuprofen) and rest, another long shower.........., a good, long, relaxing dinner and call it a night. I don't recommend booze as same leaves you in a fog for at least one day. Repeat the process the remaining days.
Make sure your equipment is in top shape and I suggest leaving the skis with a shop each night for a hot wax, ready to be picked up in the morning. I alluded to boots at the beginning and while you're focused on skis, again I trust your boots are right. If not look into that. Caveat....... Many are skiing on too stiff a boot and too short a ski. It's been that way for decades.
Oh, why the ibuprofen and just ibuprofen with no other agent.........? Simple. It does wonders better than any other analgesic in reducing muscle inflamation - tension, soreness that inherently comes with skiing.

Right now work to be in better condition via sound exercise that combines a multitude of physical work, a combination of cardio, isokinetic and isometric. Work on core strength as when you ski so much is centered within your waist. Learn to develop that.
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Buy the Magnums, you will not be disappointed.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@ChrisKitchen,

I've got the Magnums but they're a few years old, I'm a little taller than you but a lot heavier! Remember skis don't know how tall you are ONLY how heavy you are. I'd class myself as a solid intermediate perhaps early advanced, which is to say I can tackle anything on piste but the technique sometimes is lacking when the conditions get a bit variable-mostly with bumps in my case and I've been venturing off piste for some time.

A lot of people on Snowheads use the Inside Out Skiing scale to rate their level but anyhow I digress. I love my Magnums, they're great on piste and are useable in a little bit of off piste but have some fatter skis so feel generally covered with the two pairs. Generally the stiffer the skis the more you have to work them to get the best out of them. I've had mine since I was probably a similar level to you but may have got away with them then as I'm around the 17st mark. I like to (when it's safe of course) get a shift on, and they're very rewarding when you work them, carving lovely big turns.

There is of course an argument to say it's really not worth buying your own gear at this stage (or any for a holiday skier?!?) As you're progressing you may get into off piste etc. I can't talk as I've always been a bit of a gear whore but I've never bought brand new always slightly used second hand or ex demos.

If I were to replace them I'd maybe look at the Titan a bit more versatile whist having the same turn radius as the Magnums.
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equinoxranch wrote:
Avoid the big mistake of taking a lunch break which crashes everything. God, when I think of all the people who are stuffing themselves over lunch for an hour or more only to go out afterward and expect to ski.......... Laughs! Too funny. *

I strongly suggest instead going in mid-day for no more than five minutes at most....., take a leak if need be, grab some chocolate milk and a donut if you were in the USA, but you're not, so instead a tarte aux pommes with some chocolate milk - or a stiff latte, some muesli perhaps, knock it down and head right back out on to the slopes and continue.

*You did of course have a substantial breakfast early on that includes the magic food - eggs - with plenty of strong tea or coffee (with milk and sugar) and 200mg. of ibuprofen that will take you through much of the day, later, after you've come in for the day and taken care of all your equipment, gotten some thorough nutritional replenishment (with one more 200mg. of ibuprofen) and rest, another long shower.........., a good, long, relaxing dinner and call it a night. I don't recommend booze as same leaves you in a fog for at least one day. Repeat the process the remaining days.
Make sure your equipment is in top shape and I suggest leaving the skis with a shop each night for a hot wax, ready to be picked up in the morning
Oh, why the ibuprofen and just ibuprofen with no other agent.........? Simple. It does wonders better than any other analgesic in reducing muscle inflamation - tension, soreness that inherently comes with skiing.

Right now work to be in better condition via sound exercise that combines a multitude of physical work, a combination of cardio, isokinetic and isometric. Work on core strength as when you ski so much is centered within your waist. Learn to develop that.


I presume this is a joke? The dude wants to know what skis to buy, not how to kill himself with ibuprofen and a sugar high.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Yes, he has no idea whether the subject is diabetic, has an allergy to ibuprofen, and so on.

www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Painkillers-ibuprofen/Pages/Side-effects.aspx

Misguided at best, dangerous at worst.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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....or consider the iSupershape Speed. It's a bit longer turning radius and narrower underfoot, so it's a real piste beast which you can open up into longer turns and really rip. It will certainly get you skiing faster, hopefully with a mile-wide grin Happy But for the occasional off-piste adventure the Magnum (or even more the Titan) would be a better choices. Then there is the Rally which fits in between the Speed and the other two. The Rally is a bit softer and more forgiving, but still quite high performance.

All of these skis are great. I have a pair of the old Supershape speeds somewhere in my ski store. Although I ski mainly on full-on race skis, I still use the Speeds occasionally and I'm always pleasantly surprised by just how well they perform. They have also lasted very well - despite hard use they are still in pretty ok condition.

At a guess we are looking at Titan or Magnum in either 170 or 177, the Rally probably in a 177 and the Speed in either 177 or 184. The Speed in a 184 will be a blast, but it might just be a bit too much ski for you. But without seeing you ski these are just a starting point. And if you feel that 170 works best, go for that and no need to feel embarassed. After all, World Cup slalom skis are 165....

Find a shop in your resort where you can test Head skis and try out the different models. See what feels best. I'm pretty sure you will find a good match somewhere in the iSupershape lineup.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@ChrisKitchen,

Why not try various in resort?

Both Francois Baud Sports and All-Mountain Rentals will have up to date test models (no idea what) as will many/most of the other shops. I wouldn't expect you'd pay more there than in the UK. And at least you can try before you buy.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@IRIE "Yes, he has no idea whether the subject is diabetic, has an allergy to ibuprofen, and so on.

www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Painkillers-ibuprofen/Pages/Side-effects.aspx

Misguided at best, dangerous at worst."


He clearly skis seriously hard in a given day unlike most who just putter around, this explains his use and suggestion of anti-inflammatory. I exercise extensively and ski hard too and have no reservation with taking or suggesting such anti-inflammatory before or after working out or skiing.


Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Mon 15-12-14 22:02; edited 1 time in total
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Whether you do or do not happen to take anti-inflammatories is not relevant.

Nobody should recommend that a third party should do so without first knowing their medical history.

Among other side effects they can cause a serious allergic reaction.

I take them, but then I know that I don't have any contraindications.
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irie wrote:
Nobody should recommend that a third party should do so without first knowing their medical history.


Lets have a quick think about this before going into full-on disclaimer mode and e-lawyering, shall we?

The balance of probability is that the OP is either entirely safe to consume ibuprofen (cos, y'know, it is trivially available to pretty much every idiot in the western world and farther afield and there hasn't been a horrendous mass poisoning outbreak) or knows full well that they can't because they probably aren't ignorant of their own serious health issues. There's precious little here worth unlimbering your best wagging finger and patronising underlines for.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Yes, the balance of probability is that it is entirely safe for the OP to take ibuprofen.

But in the unlikely event that it's not, then what?
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Then the chances of you being able to do something about it via e-disapproval are absolutely miniscule. In the meantime, you managed to recommend him some skis without enquiring into his health, fitness, ability and understanding of piste safety. If you don't feel the need to patronise someone over a moderately risky hobby, perhaps you might extend the same courtesy to other areas of life?
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@Serriadh - I did not "recommend him some skis".

ChrisKitchen proposed two options, the second of which was Head Magnums.

To which I replied "I agree that the Head Magnums seem to be a good option.".
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
My recommendation is ibuprofen and Dynastar Outland 80 XT Skis. Knocked 20 years off me Smile
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My recommendation would be to knock out the idea of the ESF instructor who seems happy to let the OP spend money on very slow improvements.
Get an instructor who will teach you to ski faster and in control - my second week of lessons was spent having to schuss here there and everwhere and it teaches you to
1. get your weight forward and
2. not to be frightened of getting speed up when appropriate
I was also in my 30s when I learned to ski and pushing yourself to the next level feels great !

Anyway, given the current attitude of the ESF to British tour operators etc. use anyone but them!
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Serriadh wrote:
irie wrote:
Nobody should recommend that a third party should do so without first knowing their medical history.


Lets have a quick think about this before going into full-on disclaimer mode and e-lawyering, shall we?

The balance of probability is that the OP is either entirely safe to consume ibuprofen (cos, y'know, it is trivially available to pretty much every idiot in the western world and farther afield and there hasn't been a horrendous mass poisoning outbreak) or knows full well that they can't because they probably aren't ignorant of their own serious health issues. There's precious little here worth unlimbering your best wagging finger and patronising underlines for.


Right, lets get real here. The post above by equinox was pretty bad advice, and not only because of the ibuprofen comment. The vast majority of people would not be able to ski in the manner in which was suggested, and if they did would likely end up exhausted, leading to bad technique, never mind the possibility of injuries. Anyway the original poster is looking for advice on skis, the above list of things was somewhat off topic.

For what its worth taking regular ibuprofen is terrible advice, no one should be taking ibuprofen regularly as a prophylactic measure, at least without also taking an appropriate PPI (stomach acid suppressor). And I am more than qualified to share that.

Im also not sure why the ESF instructor is being slated for telling him his skis are too short Puzzled . At 170 and 6ft 2 his skis are too short!

Back on topic-

Chris given what you have said I still believe the Magnums would be a great ski for you. They might perhaps need a bit of getting used to, but they will reward good technique, and as such you should be able to develop with them, rather than a softer ski you might 'grow out of' quite fast.
The only thing I would say is that they are a pure piste ski, so if you were thinking of starting to play in the powder, you might be better to get more of an all mountain ski.

Having said that, haven't been on the others, they may be as good!
ski holidays



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