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Ski Etiquette - Funny experiences or clashes ?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@Dave of the Marmottes, Actually, I think the child who was hit was pretty visible, or would have been if the boarder hadn't been focused on his previous near-miss. I find it difficult to ascribe anything much less than 100% of the blame to the boarder. The skier shouldn't have smacked him (even if he is a boarder) but that doesn't really detract much from the original offence.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Whilst, the lift queues can be annoying, it is poor etiquette putting people in danger that I find harder to tolerate.
<RANT>
Many have been mentioned here, but just to add to this:

1) People who do not wait for the person in front to clear a pitch before launching off. A group of skiers were stood atop a steepish pitch on the Mosettes Snowcross following deep fresh snow. I stopped and asked if they were going to drop in, but they said "After you mate". About 10 seconds after I dropped in, the first skier launched himself in a traverse which had the effect of releasing a huge shelf of snow straight down towards me. Luckily I was in front side and could see up the slope, and was able to ride sideway away from this.

2) People who DO stop at the edge of the piste, but right under a lip or jump. I know you should look before you leap, but just ask yourself do all 15 year old kids send somebody down to spot the landing before lauching off a lip which they did earlier that day when it was pefectly safe?

3) Passing boarders at speed on their blind side. No, Boarders do not have eyes in the back of their heads. Regular riders cannot see people coming down on their left, and goofy riders have a blind spot on the their right. Novice skiers do not always appreciate this. Regular boarders can mitigate this risk by riding on the left of pistes and narrow areas, and goofy riders by doing so on the right hand side. We know that skiers are better and faster, but please remember that boaders will turn occassionally, and if you are passing one on their blind side, then please leve a bit of room.
</RANT>
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Quote:

We know that skiers are better and faster

Wait... Wha? Speak for yerself Charlie.
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Dave of the Marmottes wrote:
This is a good one - make no mistake boarder kid is in the wrong for initial failure to overtake girl safely but watch dad who has been screening his son and/or letting him set off without looking for uphill traffic go postal. He's a prime example of putting retribution above seeing if kid is ok and also an example for all those parental "blockers" out there -y ou're making them more unsafe as uphill skiers can't see them.
http://youtube.com/v/JGSm1ptkw2s


Unbelievable, he should be so mortified instead he goes onto media street. Pillock snowboarder having a big sook after knocking somebody over. There is traffic, you have to navigate it such that you can avoid stuff. Not rocket salad. That girl was always going to wander across because she is a little girl who isn't a fantastic skier. Happens all the time and you have to cater for it. Yeah, I know he got a slap but he deserved it had a bloody helmet on his thick scone anyway.

#SuckItUp
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Richard_Sideways wrote:
Quote:

We know that skiers are better and faster

Wait... Wha? Speak for yerself Charlie.


Fastest skier : approx 250 kmh
Fastest boarder : approx 200 kmh
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@WindOfChange, well if you're talking world records yeah, but I don't see many of those guys around. And whats this 'better' nonsense.
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
A skiers tuck position is more stable than a boarder, as it is much easier to keep the centre of gravity within the extremities of the skis, than on a board - therefore it is easier to go faster.
Anecdotally, I have only been riding since 1996 but skiing since 1986, but of all the people I know who do both pretty well (ski instructors etc...), they can all ski faster than they can ride.
I was joking about the "better" btw... Very Happy
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foxtrotzulu wrote:
@Dave of the Marmottes, Actually, I think the child who was hit was pretty visible, or would have been if the boarder hadn't been focused on his previous near-miss. I find it difficult to ascribe anything much less than 100% of the blame to the boarder. The skier shouldn't have smacked him (even if he is a boarder) but that doesn't really detract much from the original offence.


I guess we'll have to disagree. The boarder is primarily responsible but from the (limited) video available I struggle to see a kid clearly in motion behind dad. Plus even after brushing with the girl he holds it together enough to miss the thing he can see (dad) but the kid appears point blank on him. Dad's screen is very effective right up to the point it's 100% ineffective.

& as for Dad punching boarder kid how does he know at that point that boarder kid hasn't just been taken out from behind by someone else. He doesn't because he's not looking - it's blind rage.
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The boarder is certainly the only one responsible, but in his defence I really think it is just an accident. If you look at the video with the dad facing to the right of the slope,it is actually very hard to see the kid downhill of him, and the kid is facing the other way. Can perfectly understand that after narrowly avoiding the girl (whom he should have anticipated turning), at quick glance going behind the dad would look to be safe.

Doesn't make it not his fault, but it is still just an accident.

And there may be some validity in saying that the kid perhaps shouldnt have been on that slope, the very limited view does look like he is at a very early stage. And for that matter it looks like the father is initially stopped whilst teaching the kid, and stopped in the middle of the slope, which he shouldn't be.

It is the snowboarders error that caused the action, but theres nothing in the video that he is doing which is reckless. I suppose to put it in car terms, if the equivalent accident happened on the road, the boarders insurance company would be paying out for both cars, but the police wouldn't be interested.
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To change the subject a little, was loading on to a fast quad last year in italy. Me in the leftmost lane, expecting to end up in the leftmost seat. Except the muppet to my right was asleep. Almost missed the gate, skied hard left through the gate into my back, I ended up with nowhere to go underneath the chair. Cue much swearing at a stationary chair 10 yards in front of me, with an empty seat one from left.
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SkiG wrote:
The boarder is certainly the only one responsible, but in his defence I really think it is just an accident.


Have to say that's how I would read it too. None of us are perfect and that's just the sort of 'there but for the grace of god' moments any of us could have.

There's a hundred things the boarder could have done differently and with hindsight probably would have gone a little slower, or even a little faster. He's human though and, like the rest of us makes mistakes. He read the girls skiing too late but did his best to react to avoid an accident but didn't have a chance to see where that would put him (and if he had taken the time he would have hit the girl).

The only other thing he could have tried would be a suicide stop, turning the little boy and his father in to snowmen - and possibly still taking them both out. I bet the dad would have taken that badly too.

Regardless none of this justifies the father (ignoring his own son) punching the kid without even asking what had happened.
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Whilst I'm of the it's a bit of an accident camp, I would say that if any blame were to be apportioned, it's the Father of the child.

You can first see the Father at 24 seconds. There is no child visible.
25 seconds child still not visible.
26 seconds child still not visible.
27 seconds child still not visible. The child is clearly not moving and covered by the uphill parent.
27 1/2 seconds child is now visible and moving
28 seconds impact.

It's a pity that the video doesn't show the fathers upper body, but he either a) didn't look upslope or b) did look upslope and set the child in motion anyway (which doesn't make much sense).
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Clearly the dad's fault.

This isn't a 'downhill skier has priority situation', its a 'look before you set off' and 'don't stop in the middle of a narrow piste' situation.

If the dad doesn't think the kid can or knows to check behind before he sets off then
1) He should look uphill him before letting him set off.
2) The kid shouldn't be on the slope.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
I've had a few "incidents" on the slope, but the one that stands out was an older French man on very long very thin skis (perhaps 3-4cm wide!) skiing down at enormous speed and crashing straight into the back of my then nine year old son, sending him flying (literally) down the piste. The guy then goes over to my son and rather than helping him up he starts screaming at him in French. Fortunately my son was only bruised, and the man was taken to task by a young Parisian woman who saw the whole thing (and spoke great English too), she reported him to the locals and it turned out that he really should be wearing prescription glasses but wore his sunglasses instead.

I've also been guilty of causing trouble myself on the piste, by losing control and crashing into a young lady and then her boyfriend at relatively high speed, leaving them both on the floor. I was going too fast through underestimating how steep the slope was and was trying to slow down by turning sharply, somehow I turned too far and went straight into them. All I could do was apologise profusely, they were very nice about it and let me buy them a drink to apologise.

Regarding lift queues, I've been in a situation where the lifties were trying to "fill the gaps" one physically pushed me forward to get onto a chair without my wife. I stepped off to the right and let the chair past, and the guy stopped the whole lift and came to have a go at me for wasting space on the lift, while a crowd of people looked on. I asked him what exactly his problem was with me spending the ten minutes talking with my wife rather than a bunch of strangers, and pointed out that the time he was wasting with the stopped lift far exceeded the time "lost" to the single space that he was trying to force me to sit in. I mean seriously, why is it a problem for groups or pairs to sit together? We usually get a total of two hours to ourselves while the kids are in lessons in the morning, and damned if I'm going to waste a portion of that so that some guy can feel like he's "using his space" most efficiently!

As for boarders...for some reason in our experience they seem incapable of getting off a normal ski lift without swinging their boards about and blocking others, leading to my wife being knocked to the ground three times so far while getting off the lift. We now refuse to get on ski lifts with boarders, and that has caused friction in lift queues before, although usually we simply avoid the boarders by letting them go past and waiting...

-simon
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Szymon wrote:


As for boarders...for some reason in our experience they seem incapable of getting off a normal ski lift without swinging their boards about and blocking others, leading to my wife being knocked to the ground three times so far while getting off the lift. We now refuse to get on ski lifts with boarders, and that has caused friction in lift queues before, although usually we simply avoid the boarders by letting them go past and waiting...


So you're the guy at the front letting chairs go up empty because you have an irrational fear of boarders? Boarders are of course homogeneous and there is no difference between a beginner boarder who might struggle to disembark a chair properly initially and a skilled one. In any event let boarders have the outside seat and disembark swiftly and directly and you should have no problems.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Dave of the Marmottes wrote:
Szymon wrote:


As for boarders...for some reason in our experience they seem incapable of getting off a normal ski lift without swinging their boards about and blocking others, leading to my wife being knocked to the ground three times so far while getting off the lift. We now refuse to get on ski lifts with boarders, and that has caused friction in lift queues before, although usually we simply avoid the boarders by letting them go past and waiting...


So you're the guy at the front letting chairs go up empty because you have an irrational fear of boarders? Boarders are of course homogeneous and there is no difference between a beginner boarder who might struggle to disembark a chair properly initially and a skilled one. In any event let boarders have the outside seat and disembark swiftly and directly and you should have no problems.


No, we just let the boarders through so that they we don't have to sit with them -- they can easily sit with someone else Happy. Once bitten (thrice bitten!) twice shy and all that. Usually we manage to do this early enough so that it doesn't result in empty seats in the chair.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
The boarder in the incident is clearly in the wrong: Rule #5

my Rules wrote:

1. Push your boundaries, Ski at the limit of control so you might have enough control to be able to stop or avoid objects.
2. If you are overtaking another skier try to avoid hitting the slower skier but it is fun buzz them so close that they loose control. Say on my right/left to confuse them.
Clicking your poles also makes them feel inferior.
3. Remember skiers have right of way over boarders.
4. Feel free to fly over boarders sitting down or rest in the middle of the piste below a crest.
5 When you are starting your run don't worry about uphill snowboarders have to avoid you.
6. When getting off a chairlift help yourself up by pushing off the persons sitting next to you, this also stops them impeding your diagonal exit.
7. Ignore all Snow Resort Signs and enter closed trails these notices are for novices.
8. If you are in any way involved in an accident, ski away quickly & hide or change your outfit.wink .
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Szymon wrote:

Regarding lift queues, I've been in a situation where the lifties were trying to "fill the gaps" one physically pushed me forward to get onto a chair without my wife. I stepped off to the right and let the chair past, and the guy stopped the whole lift and came to have a go at me for wasting space on the lift, while a crowd of people looked on.



Oh Princess, you've been in a situation where lifties were trying to fill the gaps. That must have been nerve wracking for you.
If you want to spend 10 minutes talking to your wife then either sort yourselves out so you're on the same lift without holding anyone else up, or go for a nice walk somewhere.

Why should other people have to wait around for you ?


Szymon wrote:

I mean seriously, why is it a problem for groups or pairs to sit together?

It's not, as long as you don't inconvenience other people by leaving lift seats empty when there's a queue.


Szymon wrote:

We usually get a total of two hours to ourselves while the kids are in lessons in the morning,

That's your problem, not everyone else's. Or at least it should be.

Szymon wrote:

and damned if I'm going to waste a portion of that so that some guy can feel like he's "using his space" most efficiently!


Hopefully you will be.


It's quite simple, deliberately leaving empty spaces on a lift when there's a queue is unforgivable (unless perhaps you're looking after young kids)
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TheGeneralist wrote:
Oh Princess, you've been in a situation where lifties were trying to fill the gaps. That must have been nerve wracking for you.

Awww diddums, did the poor little muppet decide to belittle someone on the internet this evening? How tewwibly tewwibly cute.

TheGeneralist wrote:
If you want to spend 10 minutes talking to your wife then either sort yourselves out so you're on the same lift without holding anyone else up, or go for a nice walk somewhere.

We usually do, as do other people, everyone gets lined up in their groups -- and then the lifties start taking people from one group to another to "fill gaps" and splits up the nice ordered lines, adding confusion and slowing things down for everyone.

TheGeneralist wrote:
It's quite simple, deliberately leaving empty spaces on a lift when there's a queue is unforgivable (unless perhaps you're looking after young kids)

Oh my, unforgivable! The sin! The shame! <---note, this is sarcasm, you don't seem to be very good at it so I thought I'd point it out

Thank you for sharing your opinion. You're certainly entitled to share it.
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Some good LOL put-downs in here.
The future of snowHead is in good hands. Laughing
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I'm also in unforgiveable camp. When you have a ten minute queue for a lift an you see chairs going up half or in the case of 6 men chairs a lot less than half full, that has a huge effect on the size of the queue and your skiing time. Faff less - ski more Very Happy
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It's generally a good idea to make efficient use of the lifts and to minimise the queuing. However..... I think we should all recognise that for some people their idea of a great holiday is to spend as much of the time as possible actually skiing, whereas for others they prefer to sacrifice a small amount of that time to chat to their friends on lifts etc. and that may mean leaving the odd gap here and there. As long as neither side gets fanatical about it there's no problem.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Andorra is another place with singles lanes. They rock.

I don't see them much, if at all, in the Spanish Pyrenees... But then again, there are rarely any queues in the Spanish Pyrenees. (Every time I think I ought to venture further afield, I just read sH for 30 seconds. I don't know where you lot go on holiday, but it sounds like a Spanish motorway on a bank holiday weekend! Conversely, you wouldn't like Spanish motorways on a bank holiday weekend - although at least you'll have had the training.). To be fair, I expect the same can be said for the 3990 Alpine resorts which aren't the ten celebrity ones.

monkey wrote:
singles lanes are the best. we always use the singles lanes even when we are skiing in a group. As often as not we end up on a 6 person lift with only one guy on it and most of us pile through in a hurry to fill it, so we quite often end up in a group without having to queue.
This. Best invention on the hill. Everyone's a winner: my mates and I get to legitimately push in, and more often than not get to sit together anyway, often thanks to some skiers' baffling fear of sharing lifts with snowboarders; and the queue gets to load more efficiently and hence move quicker, to everyone's benefit.
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My friend 'rides' while I ski. He has taken out several people over last few trips. Does not slow down on danger sections, has little care for looking up the slope, and shrugs it off with no interest in my rebukes. I keep right our of his way as he is a total idiot. Good friend but poor etiquette.
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And all he ever says is 'I'm faster than you'.
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@Mike-H, How can you enjoy your holiday knowing you are skiing with an accident waiting to happen?
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@holidayloverxx, I let him ride ahead of me. Hence he thinks he is 'faster' not that I give a monkeys. Smile I will keep on at him to think about others and hopefully it will sink in.
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stevew wrote:
I'm also in unforgiveable camp. When you have a ten minute queue for a lift an you see chairs going up half or in the case of 6 men chairs a lot less than half full, that has a huge effect on the size of the queue and your skiing time. Faff less - ski more Very Happy


Ummm, if there were two spaces on the chair we'd take them both and be happy wink. I wouldn't let a chair go up half full! At most I wouldn't fill a single space. Let single people do that Happy

Actually I think the singles lanes people are talking about are a great idea. Let groups sit together, and fill the chairs up with people who actually want to go up 'by themselves' (or who just want to get up as fast as possible and don't care how). Best of both worlds really. In "our" resort (Chamrousse) they only do a singles lane at the cable car, but at peak times it's usually filled by the ESF group lessons (where they pack the ESF kids into any space possible to get them up the mountain). For all the other lifts, there is an "ESF only" lane but solo skiers (or *sigh* I guess boarders) aren't allowed to use it.

(That actually reminds me of another incident, where the ESF guys tried to make me take one of "their" kids on "my" chair rather than one of my own kids! I said no, and he spouted off something under his breath in French, but no way I was going to do that. Me plus my three kids are one full chair -- in what universe does it make sense for me to leave one of my own kids and take a stranger's kid, leaving my own child to some other stranger? Insane really...).
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
I did once take out a guy who cut very sharply across the piste in front of me without looking. Technically my fault (uphill slope user) but very hard to avoid.

Then it turned out the guy was blind and was skiing with a guide. The guy himself was OK about it after we helped each other up (no-one hurt) but his guide was another story. He was German. After various fruitless attempts to communicate (I don't speak German, he didn't speak English or French) he just pointed at me then drew his thumb across his throat. I bailed at that point.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Szymon wrote:
As for boarders...for some reason in our experience they seem incapable of getting off a normal ski lift without swinging their boards about and blocking others, leading to my wife being knocked to the ground three times so far while getting off the lift. We now refuse to get on ski lifts with boarders, and that has caused friction in lift queues before, although usually we simply avoid the boarders by letting them go past and waiting...

Totally understand that, but FWIW it's the hardest bit of riding to master, getting off a chair. Especially those fast fixed ones, they're a sodding nightmare. The chairs are designed for skiers, so whilst you're getting your skis touched (ooer missus), we're trying to hold the board away from them by twisting our ankles at weird angles and resting it on our spare foot, both of which can get pretty painful on the longer chairs when it's totally packed. And to actually get off we have to perch on the edge of the chair with one cheek whilst you lot lift the bar early and faff around, and try and get lined up straight so we can give ourselves the best chance of not decking it and taking you out when we get off. If you're not particularly confident flat basing, let alone with one foot out of the bindings it can be pretty daunting especially on the steep dismounts where you pick up a lot of speed and need to hockey stop to avoid faffers/lifties/cliffs/fences.

But thanks for not wanting to ride lifts with us. It means we get a nice quiet chair Wink
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call me dave wrote:
Totally understand that, but FWIW it's the hardest bit of riding to master, getting off a chair. Especially those fast fixed ones, they're a sodding nightmare. The chairs are designed for skiers, so whilst you're getting your skis touched (ooer missus), we're trying to hold the board away from them by twisting our ankles at weird angles and resting it on our spare foot, both of which can get pretty painful on the longer chairs when it's totally packed. And to actually get off we have to perch on the edge of the chair with one cheek whilst you lot lift the bar early and faff around, and try and get lined up straight so we can give ourselves the best chance of not decking it and taking you out when we get off. If you're not particularly confident flat basing, let alone with one foot out of the bindings it can be pretty daunting especially on the steep dismounts where you pick up a lot of speed and need to hockey stop to avoid faffers/lifties/cliffs/fences.


Then shouldn't this be something that Boarders have to practise lots and lots before being allowed to ride the lifts? Make them go up the baby lift over and over until they can do it safely, without knocking other people over, and then allow them to go higher up the mountain! Happy

call me dave wrote:
But thanks for not wanting to ride lifts with us. It means we get a nice quiet chair Wink


Mostly you end up with someone else (and they get knocked down wink).

Ok, I know it's not fair to lump all boarders together. There are some who do quite amazing things with their snowboards, and are clearly in control at all times. It's a skill I admire, I might even want to try learning it one day. I just wish we wouldn't keep running into the ones who can't get off a darned lift without careening into other people!
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Quote:

We usually do, as do other people, everyone gets lined up in their groups -- and then the lifties start taking people from one group to another to "fill gaps" and splits up the nice ordered lines, adding confusion and slowing things down for everyone.



Ah of course, the 2 week a year? skier knows how to best fill the chairs over the guy/girl who stands there every day watching muppets leave empty seats, or getting confused in a lift line that is only going forwards, how do you manage to get through the day everything else must be such a chore lol wink
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@geoff10, I got on a 4 man chair on New Years Day with a friend and her 4 year old. French ladies singing behind us did not notice the small girl we'd had to help through the gate, and two of them barged through. I was the one who ended up under the chair.
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geeo wrote:
Ah of course, the 2 week a year? skier knows how to best fill the chairs over the guy/girl who stands there every day watching muppets leave empty seats, or getting confused in a lift line that is only going forwards, how do you manage to get through the day everything else must be such a chore lol wink


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Two interesting tales. Both not me. First one, I was skiing with a chap from the same chalet down Gros Tougne (sp) towards Les Menuires, we were both keeping to the right hand edge as it was quite busy and tracking along a reasonable pace, I was ahead at the time. Next thing I know my ski buddy was on the ground and a ski instructor had gone over the edge (quite a way) ski's every where and was gesticulating at my ski buddy; what had happened was that we were both near the edge and the ski instructor had decided to come on the inside of the my ski buddy but had caught him as we has turning back to the edge; the ski instructor was trying to blame my mate but another instructor just behind the first was killing himself laughing as he knew it was his mate's fault not my ski buddy. No one was hurt and we skied off before the instructor had got back to the piste.

Another occasion skiing in the Three Vallees I was in a ski hosted group with a friend and another chap from the chalet; this chap was a bit of a disaster area and we all kept away from him. So he decided to go up the inside wall of a flattish blue piste for a bit of something different, the piste went around a right corner and the chap had to come down the wall and back on to the piste, only to find a kid there and he then captured the kid between his skis and arms; I think they eventually went down but no one was hurt. Can't remember if a parent was with the kid but needless to say we kept further away from him after that Very Happy
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