 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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That's a great price. Any reason not to buy one?
I'm doing an off piste wk with the UCPA in Serre C in Jan. Was planning on just using their gear, but can see the benefit in becoming familiar with my own.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I have two of them and 2 of the newer Tracker 2's. (whole family has them)
They both seem to work the same, and are dead easy to use - one button and one switch, yes there are more complicated ones out there with multiple search features, smaller, lighter and have slightly longer ranges but imo for the 2 weeks a year user, simplicity and ease of use are priority number 1. I have been on a couple of courses and most people had them and the hire ones in the resort were also that model.
Plenty on here will tell you the latest one is the best or the one they have is best, but at £100 with free delivery its a no brainer in my opinion.
Ski club GB charge £60 a week to hire one, not sure what a resort shop would charge, but like you say its great to be familier with the one you are using and to know its been looked after and will be worth £70 on ebay if you ever need to get rid 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Really quite badly out of date now, but a lot better than nothing.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Decisions, decisions. I'll have a think about this, might ask for some vouchers towards a more up to date one for Christmas!
Thanks for your input guys.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
I'm doing an off piste wk with the UCPA in Serre C in Jan. Was planning on just using their gear, but can see the benefit in becoming familiar with my own.
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Use the UCPA ones - newer and better.
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@Tom Doc, I'd check what UCPA have - 2 years ago (in Cham) they were dishing out Ortovox F1's.... i.e. 'old-skool'. Those of us with Tracker 1's were a LOT faster, and the training was more beneficial with our own kit.
Stevomcd - not sure that 'quite badly out of date' is entirely fair.... they may only be 2 aerial, but otherwise they do the job...
I'd plump for the Mammut Element if I was buying _now_, but depends how much you'll use it....
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@qwertyuiop7,
Last year UCPA Chamonix used new Arva Evo 3+.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I'm going to invest a few quid more and get a momore up to date one. No point in asking for recommendations though - that would leave me more confused than before! I'll see what Christmas brings! Thanks for all the advice.
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| stevomcd wrote: |
| Really quite badly out of date now, but a lot better than nothing. |
ditto that,
although if you practise practise practise you will get good, it'll still be slow though.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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While there are more modern devices, the BCA is simple, fast and effective Just what you need in an emergency. At that price it is a good buy. I have two (for skiing with friends and beacon practice) and don't plan to replace until there are any signs of a drop in signal strength.
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| Quote: |
Stevomcd - not sure that 'quite badly out of date' is entirely fair.... they may only be 2 aerial, but otherwise they do the job...
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I've done extensive testing of different transceivers as part of a couple of different high-level outdoor leadership / avalanche safety qualifications. I also teach avalanche safety. The BCA Tracker 1 is quite badly out of date. A more modern transceiver will be significantly faster in a realistic situation. They are nearly 20 years old. Are you still using a 20 year old mobile phone?
http://beaconreviews.com/transceivers/Specs_BCATrackerDTS.asp
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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2 comments
1) The new BCA T2 is *much* better than the original T1 (which is mid 90s technology).
I used them side by side in the Glencoe beacon park.
T2 has noticeably faster processor and the 3rd antenna helps eliminate "spikes".
The DSP on the T2 also locks onto the strongest signal much better.
2) Maybe 10 years ago the classic Ortovox F1 was faster in trained / professional hands.
However with modern beacons that is no longer the case.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@OwenM, not rubbish unlike a lot of what you read on here, or should one say mis informed opinion.
It's just true, though I should imagine that no way Pelle uses one now given the choice - the point it demonstrates that in the right hands and with the right experience it's down to practice and practice.
And @Haggis_Trap, his time still stands................
And we're not talking some simple bury your transceiver / avy park but a scenario that is just about as real as you can get.
You don't know as you ski down where and what you might come across, and when you do eventually get to the "scene" the adrenalin is rushing through you.
There's one thing doing transceiver practice etc and nowt wrong with that - but on a week long course you do tend to go a little deeper into the "what's" and "if's"
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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^ Trust me : There is no valid reason any more to use an old F1 beacon...
Modern beacons have much faster processors and the 3rd antenna eliminates spikes during final phase search.
Both of these reduce search and probe time.
Multiple Burials will always be hard what ever the technology.
That is mainly because the current beacon standards don't transmit a unique identifier from each beacon.
So training and understanding is always essential for such scenarios.
However an old F1 offers no advantage (over modern beacons) for multiple burials either : signals can still overlap into one audible beep.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Very fast searches are achievable with an F1 - its range helps there. I used to have one but broke it and replaced it with a modern model (3+) and my times for single searches in general haven't changed much (my speed would probably be classified as not bad for a punter). But every now then, you'll get a burial which is on a weird axis which will throw the F1 off in a big way. I'd not want to take that chance in a life or death situation. Plus there are the issues with signal creep for the F1
Multiple burials are much easier with a modern model, but still a bit of a nightmare scenario in the real world
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Haggis_Trap, I'm not advocating to use one!
The point I'm making is practice and practice and keep on - too many on here, I believe, opening myself up for abuse, is that they buy a tranceiver, watch a few youtube vids, go on a few sites and read about what to do etc etc, then maybe do a couple of searches in the garden in the UK then once out in the Mountains maybe go to the avy park and then that's it..................
For many a year I was that person above 
What really hit home to me was the actual logistics of instigating a search, some one has to be the "leader" (assess the composition of the group and experience etc) and the others have to accept the decision otherwise you'll have a load of headless chickens and most importantly loose time.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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^ agree.
for all that we debate the technology if you are buried then chances of survival are <30% (Assuming well trained friends)
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@Haggis_Trap, might have to try and hook up if and when you come out in Jan ??
We leave Dec 16th for the season.
Pretty sure if I get caught you'd know what to do 
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@Weathercam, better than the too many not on here who don't even get as far as getting the gear and giving it one go. We've all got to start somewhere....
I've yet to even practise with mine in the snow, does that make it a bad thing I bought it? I'd say no, buying it brings me (and my entire ski group of buddies) one step closer to going to the avy park at least, which itself is one step closer to booking a training day etc etc.
Might be different if we thought we were now fully-good-to-go and join your wilderness touring day and then turn out to not even know which way the dial turns, but given we are actually just messing about piste-side or on lessons, I think better to have than have not.
aj x
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@a.j., like I said, I was where you are now - we all have to start somewhere.....
It's so much more difficult if you are only out for a couple of weeks a year etc to focus on everything.
Though a high % of incidents do tend to happen to people that frequent the mountains a lot and are more exposed, such as ski tourers unfortunately.
My wife who does accompany me has no where near the same skill sets, but then I try and select much safer terrain when I'm with her.
As much as having a transceiver etc and all the gear and no idea (don't please take that the wrong way) make sure that you and your mates have all the emergency tel number in your mobiles and if you have GPS with you then so much the better if God forbid you do have to contact in case of emergency and tell them where you are !
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Yes Dad 
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@a.j., probably not too far off the truth
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@stevomcd,
appreciate the more detailed reply - I wasn't trying to yank your chain, more trying to divine which was fact and which was opinion.
Quite agree the T1 is 'better than nothing' - but whether, for example, 2x T1 is 'better' for Tom than 2x Elements and the cash saved spent on the other essentials, or, god forbid, proper training, is an answer he'll need to make. (and age of the kit is not necessarily a bad thing - my old mobile phone is _much_ more useful/robust/keeps its charge all week in the mountain than my Nexus)
fully agree that practice more important than tech, generally, (although how to simulate Weathercam's adrenalin?.... now there's a debate - i've seen a good alternative where 3 teams are competing for points/money against the clock in a practice to find multiple victims at the same time - teh competitive element helps to increase the pressure/reduce measured organisation)
And a.j. - you are quite right, you can't control everything - what we all can do is attempt to reduce the risk... (and when you're not 'on' the piste, you're 'off' it
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If you do go with it use this too
| Quote: |
| 35 € off an order of 175 € or more with the code ZU7RTF6H9K |
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You know it makes sense.
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@Claude B, I've decided to hold fire. I'll see what Christmas brings (!) But will prob use the UCPA's ones in Jan, and then invest when I know a bit more and can make a more informed decision.
No doubt about the importance of education and training. I'm hoping the UCPA course will include a fair bit of safety training.
I can see alot of money being spent on gear aand training next year - I'm really keen to do more off piste courses and some touring as well. Anything I should think of before an off piste week that isn't obvious (fitness is - lots of bouldering and mountain biking/spinning happening!)?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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The Tracker 1 is still being made and although 20 year old tech was way ahead of it's time, so as long as its a new off the shelf model you still have a beacon thats faster than some new 3 antenna models. The caveat being that overcoming signal spike needs awareness and training but often isn't a big issue. The T2 in my opinion is the fastest and simplest beacon on the market. I have a conflict of interest as I sell BCA, but I also sell ARVA and Ortovox and they also have some beacons faster than others. There are no bad digital beacons, just ones that have faster processors, are simpler, or have loads of bells and whistles. Of the many beacons I sell then the T2, Ortovox 3+ (or the Zoom+ if on a budget) are the favourites based on the customer having a demo try at a beacon park. The ARVA Neo who's insides are made by Barryvox is also very good and so is the Mummut Element. I have not used the DSP pro but hear its a great beacon.
There is no substitute for education and scenario based rescue practice using the recovery tools, and the beacon is often the easier part to learn and apply.
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