I am in a dilemma as to whether I should buy an avalanche transceiver?
I was wondering at what point you decided to acquire one ....and why?
In North American resorts there seems to be a preference for 'a ski area' rather than a number of dedicated pistes. Does this mean a transceiver is required for normal 'in-bounds' skiing ... or is it overkill?
TIA
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
IMHO, if you're at the stage that you're seriously considering IF you should get one, then you're at the stage that you should just get one.
Unless you think you're likely to decrease your ability, decide to stick to the marked runs and never go off piste or progress your skiing any further..
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, unless you are skiing with a group, and they are all equiped with transceivers, probes, shovels, AND know how to use them, the decrease in risk is marginal. A transceiver does not dig you out.
@FoofyNoo, If you want the chance to meet up with other people while out on holiday it is always really good to have all the avalanche safety gear and know how to use it. We often have people meet us and ask if they can come along. If it is something easy the first time, we ask if they have the gear. If they say yes then we quite often let them come at least on the easy stuff and see what they are like.
If they do not have the gear they would be sent away, so it is a good idea to have the gear IMO. BUT do buy the latest transciever and alloy shovel. The new ones work much more quickly when searching for someone and alloy shovels are much easier to dig with.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
FoofyNoo wrote:
I am in a dilemma as to whether I should buy an avalanche transceiver?
I was wondering at what point you decided to acquire one ....and why?
In North American resorts there seems to be a preference for 'a ski area' rather than a number of dedicated pistes. Does this mean a transceiver is required for normal 'in-bounds' skiing ... or is it overkill?
TIA
In bounds in the US is avalanche controlled, and you don't need a transciever.
Anything off the pistes in Europe is not controlled, and you do need one (plus equipped/knowledgeable mates etc).
@clarky999, having seen avalanches in areas which were supposed to be controlled, and avalanches across pistes, I would have one anyway.
To me it is such a small piece of gear I wouldn't even know I had it on until I took my jacket off at lunchtime.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
I've experienced an avalanche at the edge of a blue run . . . Lasted about 10 ft and dropped me to my waist . . . took 45min to dig myself out.
If you're part of a group and you are going anywhere off piste in Europe or the edges of a US ski area then yes it should be part of your kit and the first thing you do is book a training course in how to use it.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Don't some "in-bounds" area still require transceivers? I am thinking of sections like Delirium Dive in Sunshine for example
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Ahh yes ... this is my secondary problem.
I am mostly going to be skiing with a friend who is also undecided about a transceiver ... there is the aspect of 'there's no point of me buying one if you don't'. Difficult.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
I struggling with the statements about whether one is required by the authorities or not. If you're thinking about getting one, then get one, and practice with it. It's a bit of safety gear that may save your life or someone else's. To me it's like winter climbing/walking, if you're thinking about putting your crampons on it's already too late. If you spend anytime off-piste then I would definitely get one (even off the side of the piste) but it's not really much good without a probe and shovel too.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
FoofyNoo wrote:
Ahh yes ... this is my secondary problem.
I am mostly going to be skiing with a friend who is also undecided about a transceiver ... there is the aspect of 'there's no point of me buying one if you don't'. Difficult.
You should both agree to buy transceivers.
Then buy the best shovel and probe you can afford and give them to your mate as a christmas present.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Spent a lot of time off piste in great snow in les Arcs a couple of years ago. Near-piste, and popular, but nevertheless clearly offpiste, most of the time. Twice on group lessons at a similar point the instructor took us offpiste and handed out (old, hard to operate) transcievers, and I just thought I'd far rather have my own, and rarely use it, than have to use one of those ones in an emergency. Plus I'm a helpful sort of person, I'd hate to see a near piste accident for instance and be unable to help and just have to stand around like a lemon. As long as you are sure you are calm enough to remember when it needs turning off (to search) I can't see the harm in getting one early rather than later. I ski with it on me, but not always switched on (on piste) and switched on (me and my husband) when condiditions are tempting us to hop on and off piste. I comparison to the holiday they cost nothing. My mates do think I'm a bit all the gear no idea, but I dont care Plus it's fun to play hunt the transciever in the evenings and havign my own makes it far more likely I'll do more training in the future so when I do need one I'm comfortable and practiced using it.
aj xx
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
ulmerhutte wrote:
Well, unless you are skiing with a group, and they are all equiped with transceivers, probes, shovels, AND know how to use them, the decrease in risk is marginal. A transceiver does not dig you out.
I think this sort of negativity is really dangerous.
Obviously, the better everyone knows how to use their transceivers, the better but they're hardly likely to learn anything until they get one.
Suggesting there's no point having one because some people don't know how to use them properly is defeatist in the extreme.
If you're skiing off piste then yes, get a transceiver
and if your mate wont get one, tell him you'll be looking for other people to ski with, for your own protection
.
Then learn how to use it.
Then practice using it with others.
Then practice at regular intervals and jump at any opportunity to do so in the company of an expert.
Then hope you never need it - but if you do, you'd better hope you've got the hang of it
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@admin, +1
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
The question in my head is how on earth I ended up skiing off piste in a group where some do not have transceiver, probe and shovel. That just doesn't happen in my world, and the easy way to avoid it is when the group that doesn't have any of the gear they need heads off piste, just carry on down the piste and find somewhere else to ski with the people who do.
The other advantage to having it, even if you don't plan to ski off piste, is the very real potential to be involved in a rescue when you see someone else caught in an avalanche. To be standing there helpless knowing that someone is buried in front of you, with no way of even trying to help, is the sort of experience that might live with you for some years afterwards. Even worse if the casualty has taken the sensible step of wearing a transceiver and you don't have one.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Mistress Panda wrote:
The other advantage to having it, even if you don't plan to ski off piste, is the very real potential to be involved in a rescue when you see someone else caught in an avalanche. To be standing there helpless knowing that someone is buried in front of you, with no way of even trying to help, is the sort of experience that might live with you for some years afterwards. Even worse if the casualty has taken the sensible step of wearing a transceiver and you don't have one.
I, and around 200 other folk, ended up probing an avalanche for 3 hrs in Dec 2012.
And that was under the Aeroski in Tignes le Lac. Don't have to be miles away to be off-piste in a high risk area.
It was probably one of the most exhausting and, at the end of the day, emotionally draining things I've done.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@feef, If I remember right neither had transceivers did they? I got seriously injured
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
feef wrote:
Mistress Panda wrote:
The other advantage to having it, even if you don't plan to ski off piste, is the very real potential to be involved in a rescue when you see someone else caught in an avalanche. To be standing there helpless knowing that someone is buried in front of you, with no way of even trying to help, is the sort of experience that might live with you for some years afterwards. Even worse if the casualty has taken the sensible step of wearing a transceiver and you don't have one.
I, and around 200 other folk, ended up probing an avalanche for 3 hrs in Dec 2012.
And that was under the Aeroski in Tignes le Lac. Don't have to be miles away to be off-piste in a high risk area.
It was probably one of the most exhausting and, at the end of the day, emotionally draining things I've done.
We were there at the time too.
A group of trainee instructors, under instruction, off piste (though only just) in substantial fresh snow but none wearing beeps.
When the probing line found who they were looking for, she was still alive but sadly, not alive enough to recover. This is the perfect example of a life lost, without doubt, as a result of not wearing a beep.
These were people who ought to have known better under the guidance of someone who certainly should! They paid a very heavy price for not taking basic precautions and yet, I've read opinions expressed in similarly blasé/defeatist tones as the one I took issue with above, suggesting that if this or that ESF instructor isn't bothering with a beep, they clearly know there's little point - instructors and guides can be wrong too and they too can die of conceit.
@admin, Crazy. It certainly makes you think - and transceivers are so cheap!! What £150 - £200, even if you are ignorant enough not to learn how to find others, at least have the sense to wear one. £200 is 2 meals out, a clothes shopping trip, or a night out. People do that so why not put the pennies to better use. The wife bought me mine for my 30th, and whilst she doesn't think its a great present, it is simply the best thing she could ever buy me - £200 for my life, I know which I am choosing!
Put another way, I feel naked when I drive without my seatbelt, or unsafe when I dont wear my hard hat at work - these things should just be used and become second nature
Im a huge advocator of wearing ski helmets, but I tell you what, id chose a transceiver over a helmet any day!
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Quote:
£200 is 2 meals out, a clothes shopping trip, or a night out. People do that so why not put the pennies to better use.
Jesus, I agree with the sentiment, but where are you drinking???
@clarky999, Thats for me and the wife - when we get away from the little one we do it properly
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
PaulC1984 wrote:
@feef, If I remember right neither had transceivers did they? I got seriously injured
AIUI, noone in the group (of about 40) had any sort of avalanche safety kit. 1 pulled out in 15 minutes, was lightly injured and survived. Another, a girl of 19, was pulled out after 45 minutes with no heartbeat. They got her heart started there and was carted off to Grenoble hospital, but was pronounced dead, officially, a day or two later.
Was rather sobering, not least as I was due to do avalanche training the following day
After all it is free
After all it is free
@feef, Not nice at all. Ive been very lucky to never see or be involved in one, but have seen and been involved with deaths in my other hobbies, and its not until that point that you truly know why this safety gear is there
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@admin, @feef, yep remember that avalanche well, I was around then but not in the rescue.
It was one of those situations with hind site is easy to say it should not have happened, but it did, all the danger signs were there on that slope, slope angle and the amount of snow that had fallen. Can any one remember was it a risk 4? at the time, the big thing was though that if they had have had transceivers they would have stood a better chance.
The other event that everyone should watch is the girl who survived an avalanche who me and Henry met at the London ski show, she was the luckiest person in the world by a long way, no transceiver and no gear like the rest of her party, the chilling bit is she was as good as dead when they pulled her out, but her memory of what it was like under the snow is horrific and everyone who skis should take a minute to watch.
IIRC it was level 4 that day, yes. Over a meter had fallen that night.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
admin wrote:
ulmerhutte wrote:
Well, unless you are skiing with a group, and they are all equipped with transceivers, probes, shovels, AND know how to use them, the decrease in risk is marginal. A transceiver does not dig you out.
I think this sort of negativity is really dangerous.
Obviously, the better everyone knows how to use their transceivers, the better but they're hardly likely to learn anything until they get one.
Quote:
Suggesting there's no point having one because some people don't know how to use them properly is defeatist in the extreme.
If you're skiing off piste then yes, get a transceiver
and if your mate wont get one, tell him you'll be looking for other people to ski with, for your own protection
.
Then learn how to use it.
Then practice using it with others.
Then practice at regular intervals and jump at any opportunity to do so in the company of an expert.
Then hope you never need it - but if you do, you'd better hope you've got the hang of it
Call me crazy, but I think you just repeated what I said. Or... did you just feel like a gratuitous attack?
Quote:
Suggesting there's no point having one because some people don't know how to use them properly is defeatist in the extreme.
At present, many skiers carrying search appliances (transceivers) are insufficiently familiar with their use, with fatal consequences.
Arguably, if you are going to be skiing by yourself, a better investment would be a course to recognise avalanche risks, eg terrrain traps, and an avi bag. Buy a transceiver by all means but, to repeat again, it will not dig you out - it will be your skilled/equipped mate.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Sorry, did not get the significance of the yellow bit... just clicked through on it. It seems we are at roughly in agreement.
Peace.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
ulmerhutte wrote:
admin wrote:
ulmerhutte wrote:
Well, unless you are skiing with a group, and they are all equipped with transceivers, probes, shovels, AND know how to use them, the decrease in risk is marginal. A transceiver does not dig you out.
I think this sort of negativity is really dangerous.
Obviously, the better everyone knows how to use their transceivers, the better but they're hardly likely to learn anything until they get one.
Quote:
Suggesting there's no point having one because some people don't know how to use them properly is defeatist in the extreme.
If you're skiing off piste then yes, get a transceiver
and if your mate wont get one, tell him you'll be looking for other people to ski with, for your own protection
.
Then learn how to use it.
Then practice using it with others.
Then practice at regular intervals and jump at any opportunity to do so in the company of an expert.
Then hope you never need it - but if you do, you'd better hope you've got the hang of it
Call me crazy, but I think you just repeated what I said. Or... did you just feel like a gratuitous attack?
Quote:
Suggesting there's no point having one because some people don't know how to use them properly is defeatist in the extreme.
At present, many skiers carrying search appliances (transceivers) are insufficiently familiar with their use, with fatal consequences.
Arguably, if you are going to be skiing by yourself, a better investment would be a course to recognise avalanche risks, eg terrrain traps, and an avi bag. Buy a transceiver by all means but, to repeat again, it will not dig you out - it will be your skilled/equipped mate.
Only your skilled/equipped mate wont be able to find you as you spent all your money on courses and none on the transceiver
Tell you what, why dont we just agree the minimum kit should be probe, shovel and transceiver AND training in those items/reading the mountain are essential - simples
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@PaulC1984, Done! Though I might add - "plus equally-minded, skilled, and equipped mates".
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
And don't relax and take things for granted. I was hit by two small slides pretty much after the skiing was over. One 200 metres from the lift station at the bottom and one on a flat forest path... we tend to switch off when we think we are almost home and may not notice a warning sign. It's much better to not ever get caught
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
The other thing to remember, to increase your chances of survival, is not to ski within 50 feet of @ScarpaTheAvalanchePoodle,
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
...actually, make that 50m
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@admin, I do seem to possess an uncanny ability to sniff them out. Been two clear years now though, I must be getting better at not actually being part of them
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@Scarpa, Better to see them, even if you end up having a brown pants moment than one coming up behind you though!! I think admin has the right idea (albeit slightly selfish) though in sending you first
After all it is free
After all it is free
@PaulC1984, I didn't realise @Scarpa, was Swedish?
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@under a new name, behave
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Thinking about it quite a few people seem to send me first across dodgy slopes.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
Plus it's fun to play hunt the transciever in the evenings and havign my own makes it far more likely I'll do more training in the future so when I do need one I'm comfortable and practiced using it.
I do seem to possess an uncanny ability to sniff them out. Been two clear years now though, I must be getting better at not actually being part of them 
