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What's Wrong With Italy?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Picking up on something that johnboy said on the Apres forum, why is Italy lacking in popularity compared to other european destinations? Cheap accommodation, good food, crowd free slopes (apart from Courmayeur on Sundays), friendly natives... Why isn't it more popular?
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Personally I love Italy, just not a fan of it's on/off snow record. Been 3 times to Gressoney, been wind affected each time, ie top lifts shut.

Had a great day at Cervinia, having driven to Zermatt from Verbier pre Xmas, the snow was heaps better at Cervinia than Verbier!

regards,

Greg
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Ignorance is my excuse. I'd like to go, have even tried to do a little research but then lost intererst and went for Andorra.
As I do the package myself ease of access to information is paramount. It seemed lacking for Italy but that is probably because of the ignorance as I said at the start.
Any decent info on good snowsure resorts and how to get there would be great. I'd go!
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Its south of tkhe alps and snow cover is problematic at the best of times. Unless you book last minute with a big dump of snow the its a bit of a gamble. Make no mistake I personaly like Italy and learned to ski there 10 years ago but the snow record is not brilliant!.

Snow making has of course improved vastly in the past decade and can make up for the lack of the real thing.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Last minute does not work from the IOM. I plan my stuff months in advance or pay ££££ to get there.
Snow sure is an absolute must which is why we go high and suffer -20c sometimes to guarantee snow. My kids are convinced that the sun never shines in ski resorts and that it is consistantly -10c at least. They may be pleasantly suprised in Andorra at the end of Jan.
Italy is still on the list but so are a lot of other places, Wengen for instance. I hope that DG Orf is recognised by the local tourist office. They should give him a free ski pass per year just for the number of people who are now considering the resort.
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It's also a little less "organised" than France, i.e. not really sorted with very linked resorts. Dolomite Superski, etc. are all very well but my understanding is that these aren't in quite the same league as PDS, 3Vs, Vd'I/T, etc. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

And, you have to put up with the aesthetic ordure that is the Milanese at play. Fluorescent yellow skin tight race pants were all very well on monoskis in the '80s, but...

So please stay away, it's not worth it. Ski in France, much better, really. Especially this New Year week....
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Sestriere once, Livigno six times, La Thuile three times . . . but all of these are not "Italian" All of Italy seems to represent and cling to the old individual principalities and then to label them under one 'Italy' demeans their individuality. I can say that I've never had a bad time in Italy . . I have in France.

Let's face it, snow on a hill is why we go, it's the people we meet that makes it fun. The Italians seem to understand fun better than the French . . . Austrians are never sober enough to be introspective (and that's just from one trip)!
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Italy is fine ..!!

I've also been to Monterosa a few times and lucked out with the snow. The locals say southerly wind feeds it.
When in Alagne we left because the top cable car was broken.... bug at the time as it was the only way out of the valley... we left and drove over to Cervinia and arrived in the middle of a huge dump..!!! Now geographically they are not that far apart at all, although it took about a 3 hour drive but the conditions could not have been more different.

I have spent quite a bit of time in Courmayeur, Cervinia and Monterosa and would go back there again. Its just I have a new list of resorts to get to and Switzerland is my current fave...
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Macugnaga as a beginner. Lovely little traditional village. But not many lifts and I think the Belvedere chair which serviced a long tree-lined run back to the village was never replaced after being hit by an avalanche. Corvarra a year later. Good but some walking required between drag lifts when conditions were heavy. Livigino in the days before the sides of the valley joined forces for lift passes. Great place. Good snow record. But the longest transfer I've ever endured. Actually lost weight on a 10 day pasta and booze filled trip. Tons of blue and red cruising at high altitude. All of these many years ago.
Then I had a long break (kids) and then discovered Serre Che moving only after a bad snow year to Belle Plagne.

Claviere - visited on a day out from Serre Che. Skied down from Montgenevre. Lunch in Claviere and bus back.

Summary - I like the Italian food, the people, the wine, the prices. The skiing can be good. But there aren't many places which can compare with the ski-in/out convenience and huge scope of, for example, Belle Plagne.
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Never skied Italy but have skied on the Austrian / Italian border a few times.

From memory Italy's last really good snow year was in the late 90's but I'm sure their time will come again. It's on my list of places to ski, just waiting for the right weather pattern and I'll be on that sud Autobahn.
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I've only skied in Italy once (Livigno - loved it!). But I had a conversation at the weekend with someone who spends a lot of time working in Italian ski resorts and the impression that I got was that language could be more of an issue there than in Switzerland/Austria/French resorts.

Anyone agree/disagree with this? Have you been taught by an Italian ski instructor who can't speak English (I was when I went)?
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Elizabeth B

i cant really comment on the instructor/language issues as last time i had a lesson there was 20 yrs ago on a school trip!

in my experience if you expect to hear english eveywhere in resort then it is more of an issue than some of the resorts in france. in the italian resorts i've been to there actually seems to be italians speaking italian which only adds to the holiday experience and contrasts dramatically with the Meribel experince for example.

having said that my recent trips to italy (Courmayeur, La Thuile and Passo Tonale) have all been short trips where potential lack of snow wasnt too much of a worry, must have enjoyed them as well as 2 italy weekends planned for this winter. as jt suggests it's often possible to drive a short distance for better conditions if necessary.....

having said that i wouldnt book my main week's trip to any of the resorts in italy that i've been to so far
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Mrs AxsMan and I did most of our first skiing in the Aosta Valley. We've skied Aosta/Pila. La Thuile and of course Courmayeur. They were all good, Pila is the smallest in terms of snow area, only a couple of blue runs, but several fairly easy reds and a few blacks for the kids Smile

Aosta, the town in the valley below (connected by a gondola) offers a good selection of hotels, bars and shops, and prices are very reasonable.

La Thuile is larger, with good 'next to piste' accommodation, although it was a bit cold and icy when we were there (late Feb).

Courmayeur is our favourite resort (so far), very scenic, good variety of runs (if you're an early intermediate) and plenty of places to stay. It did get a bit busy at the weekend but nothing unbearable.

Our first trips to all these resorts were through Interski (www.interski.co.uk) who I have to say are exceptionally well organised and very helpful. Later we went under our own steam and organised our own hotels etc. The tuition we received both from interski instructors and 'privately' was very good, and even though some of the older italian instructors were not 'fluent' in English, they still communicated well enough to help us get the most out of the experience. 'Magio' in particular was brilliant.

Comparing the Aosta resorts to the few non-italian resorts we have visted (Les 2 Alpes, Morzine / Avoriaz, Lake Louise) I would say their defining characteristics were: smaller, friendly, well signed pistes and good value. The food on the hills can be good too. I suspect there's not enough variety to challenge the more experienced skiers, but for us low intermediates with teenagers they were great. Smile
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
dodgy snow record
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
The lack of difficult runs puts me off. Which Italian resort has the most challenging blacks?
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I hate pasta. Sad
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
alan empty, surely you like pizza though??!! Puzzled

my experince of italian slope-side food is that it's far better (and cheaper) than the stuff served up in france
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Or Florentine Steak with Rosemary potatoes....... mmmmm.
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Roger C wrote:
alan empty, surely you like pizza though??!! Puzzled

No!! I eat most stuff apart from pasta and pizza. I have an Italy allergy.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
alan empty wrote:
I have an Italy allergy.
you have my deepest commiserations Sad
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Masque wrote:
alan empty wrote:
I have an Italy allergy.
you have my deepest commiserations Sad

Thank you! It's a bit of a pain to be honest. Not liking Italian food means eating in the UK is becoming increasingly tricky as well!
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
alan empty, Very unfortunate. I would have considered suicide under your circumstances.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Frosty the Snowman, Indian food gets me through the more difficult times.
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alan empty,

Try an Italian Indian.. got to be worth it just to ski Italy....No..? Laughing
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JT, I worked near the French/Italian border for 4-5 months, so I was able to ski in Italy and then ski back to France before starvation took hold!
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xyzpaul,

IMHO Probably the difficult "runs" in Italy would be the off piste colouirs in Alagna/Gressoney.

Regards,

Greg
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Only been to Livigno, Passo Tonale and Madonna di Campiglio. I thought all had very good lift systems and excellent snow and snow making facilities. Very good value, excellent food and the ski-ing wasn't bad either.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Frosty the Snowman, have you ever had a proper Florentina in Florence?
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
xyzpaul wrote:
The lack of difficult runs puts me off. Which Italian resort has the most challenging blacks?


Try Arabba!! It has some very good steep black runs and also very steep Red Runs.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Kramer, I have actually NehNeh . The Palazzo Vecchio has a lovely square on one corner that has large statues of David and Neptune in it. Cant rememmebr the name of the square. Looking from the Palazzo into the square about a quarter of the way along the left hand side of the square was the restaurant. We ate outside on a lovely May evening, We both had a superb light and thin Pizza to start, I had the steak and Mrs FTS some pasta dish. The steak was the finest I have ever tasted. Mrs FTS was 4 months plump with our firstborn and I got hammered on a lovely Chianti. She complimented on the San Pallegrino.

Just so you can picture the scene, Italy's finest monastic choir were singing in the Old Palace, it was a wonderful evening.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Italy is great, for all the reasons enthusiasts have listed before me. I love it.

Maybe it isnt quite so popular because its slightly more difficult to get to.

If driving down from the Channel, you get to France, Austria, Switz first. Why then drive over the Alps to get somwhere else?

If arriving on a cheap flight youre more likely to end up landing in Geneva and taking a Swiss train (at least thats the logical plan as I see it)

If booking a package, at least from the north of England, the flight times from Manchester are dreadful. (Most TOs still seem to think that Manchester is convenient for the whole of the north of England Puzzled ) I'd have loved to ski in the Dolomites again, but the prospect of getting up at 3am to drive over the wintry Pennines to arrive at Mcr Airport at 6am just torpedos any thought of Italy.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Roger C, Most of my Italian experience is around Monterosa. Compared to the PDS, while the food is certainly cheaper in Italy, the on mountain variety is much better in France, IMHO.

Although, I've never had donkey stew in France (but have in Italy...).

That said, it's not "on mountain" but Les Sapins in Champoluc does a very, very fine tagliatta.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I once got up at 1 am for the 4 hr drive to Dublin for a 5am checkin for the 7am flight to Bergammo. On arriving at Passo Tonale at 3pm Local time we went for a few beers, but I was in bed by 8pm Shocked
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Nothing is wrong with Italy - but I am happy if the press want to continue to peddle nonsense about it and encourage everyone to go to the French Mega resorts.

Food - in general is better and cheaper than elsewhere - the Italian Clientele demand it and enjoy it more.

Lifts - all the guide books give real downers on the lift systems, and while some of the resorts I have been to have in general older lifts, there have seldom been any queues. Some of the resorts have had some of the better lift systems I have encountered as well.

Snow Cover - maybe not as good as elsewhere, but going in Jan, Feb or early March, I have never had a problem with the Piste Networks being 100% open. Off piste may be more of an issue, but for somebody going for one week and booking long in advance, it is as much a lottery finding untracked powder off-piste in most other European resorts as it is in Italy! There seems to be a preconceived idea about Italian snow that blinds the industry to it - I remember the commentator during the Saslong Men's downhill last year (December?) saying something like 'It is amazing that with their poor snow record they can hold this entirely on artificial snow' - with snow clearly covering the countryside and valley!!! Was he even there - or just so conditioned that there couldn't possibly be any natural snow and it all had to be artificial?

Skiing - Probably not as challenging, but lets face it, the majority of us don't go thowing ourselves off cliffs or helli skiing every day! I think there is enough the the majority of 1/2 weeks a year skiers to keep themselves entertained for a week in the larger Italian resorts. (Dolomites, Moneterosa, La Thulle (La Rosierre), Madonna)

Atmosphere - Relaxed. The lift 'queues' can be as chaotic as usual, but so much less aggressive in the pushing and shoving than their French and more Germanic counterparts. And of course you have to look good skiing and enjoy a long lunch 'hour' the slopes all that emptier. What it probably does lose out on is the on slope convenience of going ultra high and purpose built, it gains in charm.

Now where's my commission from the Italian tourism board Cool
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
agavin,

Good comments, and in my (admittedly limited) experience, all accurate. particulalry the 'lunch hour'. And don't forget the Bombardini!

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My 2nd and last week on 2 planks was in livignio. The change in sliding device had nothing to do with the resort which was fine and food OK. Only other experience of Italy was a long week end in Champuluc staying in the eccentric Hotel California which was most enjoyable. Just two observations Italians are the fastest most nonchalant skiers I have ever seen. I was firing down the mountain on my board (I generally put myself in the faster than most camp) and I kept being overtaken by skiers on mobile phones waving their arms about making absolutley no effort what so ever!!! The other thing was the food - on mountain it was pretty dreadful crappy stale ciabatta sandwiches wwhen I was looking forward to some interesting pasta dishes. off mountain was tip top.
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Italy - fantastic place to live when you're young and single - did my two years, loved it, but always went to Switzerland or France for skiing.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
AxsMan, Yes, I live for bombardino ... that reminds me, time to make some at home now that the weather is colder ... seems appropriate as a festive drink Toofy Grin
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I skied Limone once and thought it was lovely - deepest snow I've ever skied in). I'm not convinced there was much there for the average holiday skier though.

However with regard to lift systems, I was talking to an instructor from Sestrierre earlier this season who was very excited because they're putting up a new chairlift for the olympics that will take 800 people per hour. Our 8 man does 3000 and our new lft at Bellecombes is around 2200 or so ....................... the 8 man's been up for 3 years. The Jandri Express's been up for over 15 years and shifts 1800 .............. Shocked Shocked
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easiski, Interesting point about lift systems, but you surely also have to take into account the number of people the resort is catering for? From what I could find, Sestrierre has 4100 beds (From an Olympics information site) - Les Deux Alps has 35000 beds (which I assume must include the surrounding towns?).

That is why I made the point about not waiting in lift queues in Italy - which says to me that the lift systems are adequately conveying the numbers of skiers up the mountain - even if not in the fastest time or greatest style. I would be lying if I said the Italian resorts were all characterised by new fast chairs with bubbles etc. In my experience a lot of the new lift investment seems to be on Gondolas (why - surely more expensive?), often replacing slow chairs. Surface lifts often seem to be replaced with slow chairs. I am sure there must be some kind of strategy in there somewhere.
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