 Poster: A snowHead
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This is probably a stupid question but I thought I'd ask it before I shell out my money. I've never bought bindings and skis separately before, until now. I have my skis and am looking at getting an AT frame binding. Will any binding fit the ski? The skis are 108 underfoot so I would assume there wouldn't be any issue with any of the Marker or Salomon frame bindings on the market.
Thanks in advance.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Assuming you don't want to go tech, I would recommend the Marker F12epf. Designed for wider skis and virtually as solid as a downhill binding.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Providing the binding is mounted correctly (ie tight flat on the top sheet to spread the load) then the width of the binding or mounting pattern makes no difference. Power transmission to the edge relies on the torsional stiffness of the binding and the ski. The regular F12/10 is just as torsionally stiff as the EPF frame which is what matters but it costs less.
@Valhender, yes, any of the framed alpine touring bindings will work on a flat topped ski although the F10/12 is, IMO, superior to the others on the market.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Since it hasn't been mentioned yet, and at risk of stating the obvious, check that the brake width on the binding you are going to buy will fit the skis you have.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Since it hasn't been mentioned yet, and at risk of stating the obvious, check that the brake width on the binding you are going to buy will fit the skis you have.
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Thanks @offpisteskiing I was just looking at that. How much room do you need to allow? Based on the recommendations above, these look like they would do a good job. However the brake width is 110 and my skis are 108, is that enough? Sounds a bit tight - http://ski-touring.glisshop.co.uk/touring_binding/marker/tour_f12_epf_110mm_black_white_green-49170.html [quote]
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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that will be fine
but make sure you get the right length for your boot
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@Valhender, no problem with the brake, the other good feature with the F12, it's easy to adjust the binding between alpine and at boots.
One thing you need to watch is if you have been skinning make sure all the snow/ice is removed before locking down the binding.
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@spyderjon, crikey Jon, I can't quite believe I'm going to say this, but I have to disagree with you there.
The width of the binding/mounting pattern doesn't really effect the power transmission as you say, nor most likely does a 108 waisted ski really need an EPF, BUT the width of the binding/mounting plate does make a difference.
A fat waisted ski with an EPF (or other fat binding) is less likely to suffer a binding pull out under extreme loads. It's to do with the force that the mounting screw can exert to keep the binding in place being greater due to a larger moment generated from the screw position to the further side of the binding.
At least that my understanding of it, maybe you knew that and just meant the EPF was probably overkill on a 108, if not then we'll have to scribble a few diagrams over a cup of tea to settle the point.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I'd agree there, unless the ski is torsionally soft,, the width of the binding is not going to give more/less edge loading, but bang on re the screws pulling out, in theory at least, in reality, probably not...........
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How common are binding pullouts, really? Plenty of bindings with skinnier bindings that the EPF, and yet you don't hear too many stories about how they rip out of the skis all the time without some additional problem, like poor water sealing and soggy cores which will cause you problems regardless of the binding footprint.
Seems like EPF is a bit of a marketing stunt.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Valhender, just one more tiddly techy point is that skis are often reinforced in some way under the binding area to allow the mounting to get a good fix (can be hard wood laminated into that area, or a reinforced plate routed into the core, or other). Using an unnecessarily wide binding raises the (admittedly slight) chance of the binding mounting pattern being wider than any reinforcement.
The above is all at the extremes and pretty unlikely, but the only sure way of knowing if there is a danger is to ask the ski manufacturer, or better still use a really knowledgeable tech like spyderjon who'll know (or ask for you).
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Serriadh & @KenX this stuff is all in the extremes tbh, & not applicable to 99% of skiers (not me for a start). But if the ski is fat enough and the skier good/aggressive enough to generate the sideways loads then it can/has happen(ed).
And then of course the rest of us like to think we're that good..................and that's where the marketing starts!
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| Serriadh wrote: |
How common are binding pullouts, really? Plenty of bindings with skinnier bindings that the EPF, and yet you don't hear too many stories about how they rip out of the skis all the time without some additional problem, like poor water sealing and soggy cores which will cause you problems regardless of the binding footprint.
Seems like EPF is a bit of a marketing stunt. |
Unless the binding mounting is Fu(ed up or somone is pushing very very hard with the DIN wound up high and crashes, Very rarely....
Except the old Marker toe pieces - don't worry the offending Item hasn't been for sale for 15+ years, they had 3 screws, 1 large and 2 small. Only the 2 small ones held them in place, I kicked one off as a skinny teenager and saw many others do the same.
Yes I've had one fail under me, but sctually broke the binding first, which then tore the remaining screws out - worn out sally, the screws pulled through the heal tracks, this leavered the front screws through the topsheet of my Volkl Explosives!
Two of my customers skis have failed - both due to the same thing, badly screwed up mounting - they had spun the screws in the holes with a power drill, instead of doing the final tourque down by hand and more importantly they had just used water soluble wood glue when I had specified epoxy for mounting bindings in any skis I make - both ski/binding isuues unfortunatley happend to the same customer, differnt shops involved but both times they failed it was dynafit bindings, one uphill the eother down. Both times he just stepped out of the ski thinking the binding had released.
As for the wider binding footprint, there is Standard for a mounting platfrom within skis, these are wider than that, just.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
As for the wider binding footprint, there is Standard for a mounting platfrom within skis, these are wider than that, just.
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@Idris, missing the gist on that last sentence, are you saying the EPF mounting pattern is wider than the standard, or am I misunderstanding?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I was also surprised that Jon said it didn't matter, but deferred to his experience.
I've know two cases of bindings coming off skis, one was due to water getting into the holes and freezing for similar reasons mentioned by idris. The other was yours truly taking some air between two trees, a lot of upward pressure on the toe piece removed it from the ski, thank goodness.
I have seen a lot of badly fitted bindings where the drill has raised a little mound, greatly increasing the leverage. Interesting point re the reinforcement.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@jbob, fore/aft pull outs are more common than the lateral pull outs wider bindings are meant to prevent (but still really rare).
The mounds are called volcano'ing I believe and again a really good tech like Jon has his own little method to prevent it on any ski he knows is prone to such.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| midgetbiker wrote: |
| @Serriadh & @KenX this stuff is all in the extremes tbh, & not applicable to 99% of skiers (not me for a start). But if the ski is fat enough and the skier good/aggressive enough to generate the sideways loads then it can/has happen(ed). |
I can see why this could be true, but then I see stuff like Look Pivots on the FWT podium (which I think have the skinniest heel pattern of any current binding?) and no shortage of Salomon/Atomic bindings in alaskan ski porn shots, etc. If those guys don't need wider mounts, who does?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Serriadh, good point, I have no answer.
The Alaskan ski porn is not great example for your argument, as 3D snow wouldn't generate the highest 'pull' on the mounting screws. The highest 'pull' I would see a being generated when a fat ski is set on it edge aggressively in harder conditions, which of course in any given year certain rounds of the FWT are a good example of.
So I dunno; guess we need a binding manufacturer (rather than a ski one) to comment.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@Serriadh, LOL. That appears to be a Pivot mounting pattern. Neat work as well. I've made a couple of split boards & that method is required & last year I had a Swedish gnarly telemark dude in who wanted his NTN's mounted like that until he saw the Quiver Killer inserts.
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@spyderjon, 148, stop Jon, that's a snowboard you have there.
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