 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi all,
Recently I have been trying to calculate my DIN and every website seems to produce a different result.. Does anyone know a good way of calculating DIN and/or a website which is useful?
Many thanks
Euan 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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It's not, @EuanFraser, a particularly exact science. I tend to have mine between 6 and 9 depending on what I'm up to.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@EuanFraser, in this thread Jonathan Bell, who is an experienced and highly regarded knee surgeon offered to provide details. http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?p=2584266&highlight=din#2584266
But it isn't just a matter of knowing the numbers - adjusting bindings yourself mightn't be too great an idea.
And as JB says in that thread, if you have any problems with knees, dial the numbers down a bit. I have mine below my "recommended" setting.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Just reading Pam's post, I'm not suggesting it's something to be taken lightly.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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I view bindings in the same way as I view electrical circuits - not something to fiddle with unless you know what you are doing, but if you're going to be doing it more than occasionally, then it is worth the effort to educate yourself to do the basics properly.
Ask yourself one simple question - when the teenager behind the counter at a snow dome hands you a pair of skis to fit the boots you just passed over to them, what level of confidence do you have in them to get it right? Sure, they've had the training course and they have a cheat sheet in front of them, but do they really know what they are doing, or is it just a case of blindly following instructions?
My DIN is usually set at between 6.5 and 7 depending on what I am doing, and my boots have a 300mm sole length. Back when I was hiring, I left the shop with DIN settings of anything between 5 and 9, and on one occasion the sole length setting was on 304-309 on one ski and I came out of the binding twice before I thought to check them. Now I have my own skis, I check them daily, and have them serviced and tested before the start of each season.
Also, beware of web sites - binding manufacturers publish their own tables, which means they're not necessarily all the same. Get the manual for your binding, and check the manufacturer's recommendations.
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@ousekjarr, how do you check the release? One of my relations, an engineer, was bothered about this and made a gizmo which goes in the boot, on the binding, and measures the force needed to release them. Rather alarmingly he found that a number of our pairs, though each pair of bindings was (obviously) set to the same number, required very different force to release.
In shops, all I've ever seen them do is give the boot a hefty smack. Not terribly scientific but I can't do any better.
I generally have mine set at 4. I find they release when I need them to, and not otherwise. But then I'm not very heavy, I'm not an aggressive skier and I have a dodgy knee.
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@pam w, I can't check the release forces other than a simple self-test - see http://www.ski-injury.com/prevention/st
That's why I have a ski tech I trust service and test them annually, with a tester which measures the force required.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@ousekjarr, I think I should try to do that - will have to ask around to find somebody reliable.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@ousekjarr, That is the right page to refere to - the simple test, and@EuanFraser, read the rest of http://www.ski-injury.com/
We are all build differently, ski differently,have different gear, whitch have been used differently and look differently at risks - so like others say: "it is not a particularly exact science".
But if you love your knees and boons - do not tighten to much.
Yes. and I forgot: some of use have become a bit older - that makes the setting not easier!  (and only my pride has been broken several times so far!)
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Sun 9-11-14 21:36; edited 3 times in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I always get my bindings set up by someone who knows what they are doing, but I ask them to set it 1 under the recommended level. I then ski and keep dialling them up 0.5 when I get pre releases. I used to ski on 6 which was a little under my chart level, but these days anything below 9 and I'm popping out a lot. But... if I changed skis then I would start again, different weights and length skis alter the equation.
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It's not worth risking your knees by trying to shortcut. Saying that, I'm now older and the bindings on my SLs only go down to 10 
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You know it makes sense.
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As low as I can go without ski's falling off when I don't want them to, around 6 or 7 for me and they stay on over bumps and jumps so no point going higher.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Scarpa wrote: |
| It's not worth risking your knees by trying to shortcut. Saying that, I'm now older and the bindings on my SLs only go down to 10 |
Depending on where and how you're skiing it's equally not worth risking pre-releases though... Not just talking about steep gnarly couloirs/no fall zones; if you ski anywhere where a fall could involve meeting a rock/etc then a pre-release could be really bad.
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Poster: A snowHead
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You could French it and just knock a zero off your weight in Kg, but I can't recommend it.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| EuanFraser wrote: |
Recently I have been trying to calculate my DIN and every website seems to produce a different result.. Does anyone know a good way of calculating DIN and/or a website which is useful?
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Well since the DIN setting is an international standard, either the websites are wrong or you are using them incorrectly. If you put in the same details, then the resultant setting should be the same.
Unless of course you are a racer using a DIN of higher than 10, in which case the standards do not apply and it is assumed that you know what you are doing.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| clarky999 wrote: |
| Scarpa wrote: |
| It's not worth risking your knees by trying to shortcut. Saying that, I'm now older and the bindings on my SLs only go down to 10 |
Depending on where and how you're skiing it's equally not worth risking pre-releases though... Not just talking about steep gnarly couloirs/no fall zones; if you ski anywhere where a fall could involve meeting a rock/etc then a pre-release could be really bad. |
+1.
Taking an unexpected walk out of the bindings can sometimes be worse than not coming out. I bet that more than a few spiral fractures were caused that way.
That said, it is not just the DIN setting that determines when/if you will release. You need to take into account binding elasticity and return to centre force. Good write up here http://blistergearreview.com/recommended/bindings-201
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I found my dynafits were particularly unforgiving of too-low release values combined with icy conditions. Alpine bindings are a bit better in that regard (see blister link above).
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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I'm 50kg, 166cm tall, size 26 boot, dont have any boots at the moment so not sure about sole probably between 290-310 and an aggressive skier
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So somewhere between 4.5 and 6.5. Split the difference, be a little conservative, set on 5 and see if you pre-release.
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@ousekjarr, I really don't think it's anything like as complex or dangerous as electricity. I have hand drilled and adjusted bindings since I was 13. Haven't caused a house fire yet.
Not complex, not subtle, not difficult, not by any means precise.
Significantly more important that boot soles aren't worn out and not covered in ice, IMV
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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We used to have a binding tester in the shop where I worked and it didn't appear to take into account the different types and elasticity of bindings, a Marker for instance would release bang on the DIN setting, but if you gave it a sharp clout, it would pop out very easily, whereas something like a Salomon had much more elasticity....
When you're setting bindings all day, you get a good feel for them, not sure about the spotty yoof behind the Snowdome counter though!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Unless you are skiing real no fall terrain, and the number of folks on here who ski that is not in doubble diggits you should not be turning your bindings up to avoid pre release - just learn to ski more smoothly. If you are having trouble with that, take some lessons.
Some of the very best skiers I know ski daily on 1 or even 2 below what the chart says - they do so as their livelyhood depends on being able to ski, so not blowing a knee.
Outside of a race course there is no need for more DIN 10, and 9 or over you need to be a fairly big person to justify this. In no fall terrain you are not skiing fast enough to develop any crazy forces. Yet here in Cham I regularily see so many people skiing on DIN 16 - I guess they don't like their knees.
The only person to ski the North Face of the Aiguille du Midi, without a abseil (rapel) did so on a pair of Dyafits that only go to 10!
When reading a binding chart or using an online calculator, the skier type about speed and agression, not how well you ski.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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+1, when I was starting out I had my bindings up to 9 to prevent pre-release in bumps, now (30 years later) I'm on 7 unless I'm going somewhere exposed when they go to 8.........
(70kg, 58 yo good skier)
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@Idris, I'm not advocating cranking them up, just pointing out that going down isn't always a great idea. Doesn't matter how smoothly you're skiing if your ski hits a rock under the snow/lump of ice.
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You know it makes sense.
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| clarky999 wrote: |
| @Idris, I'm not advocating cranking them up, just pointing out that going down isn't always a great idea. Doesn't matter how smoothly you're skiing if your ski hits a rock under the snow/lump of ice. |
If my ski hits a rock or a lump of ice I normaly wnat my ski to come off - falling flat on my face, or skiiding to a messy halt on one ski is preferable to at best a tweaked/upset knee, at worst a broken tib/fib - and yes I have seen it happen, unfortunatley more than once
One binding error I see a lot (and chamonix is probably the worst place) is people skiing in tech (dynafit style) bindings with the toes locked in uphill mode. Yes if you are skiing the Glacier Rond this is fine, but once out of the exit couloir it's not a great idea, anywhere less serious it's ratehr stupid - I have 2 friends ( and have heard of many others doing the same ) who skiing relatively easy terrain, but slightly in the back seat, caught their ski tip on a lump of ice, with their toe locked and their weigh back, the binding cannot release forward, so the next thing in line gives, their tibia!
but each to their own
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I read, once, somewhere, that pre-releases were typically not due to bindings set too light but by mechanical failure due to snow/ice/dirt/etc. interfering with correct function.
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Poster: A snowHead
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So it seems 10% of your weight in Kg's works fine 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Idris, depends how it happens I guess. I've fallen into sharky snow (which is obviously quite sketchy a la Schumacker) when a binding has released after a shark hit the base of my ski - the 'impact' wouldn't have been enough to do me any damage or even make me fall otherwise. Turned out that the shop who mounted the bidnings had for some reason set them at 4!!
Agreed with the locked dynafits though. I've never released from them unlocked, though I have them on 10 rather than my usual DIN 9. Unless I'm skiing deep forgiving powder I generally ski everything so as to not fall though.
I've heard some  horrendous stories about accidents with locked dynafits too...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Mosha Marc, my thoughts exactly, but only for a "good" skier!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@musher,
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| under a new name wrote: |
| I read, once, somewhere, that pre-releases were typically not due to bindings set too light but by mechanical failure due to snow/ice/dirt/etc. interfering with correct function. |
Probably quite a lot are, but I would guess that these are based mainly on casual holiday skiers who don't check their soles when clicking in. For regular skiers who do check it is likely to be the settings. When I had mine 1.5 below what they are now they popped off quite a few times, mostly through hitting bumps or ploughing through heavy bulges of deep snow.
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@Scarpa, i don't know. I do know that I really do variably ski on anything from 5.5 to 9 and very rarely pre-release. But I'm pretty careful re ice buildup and I am apparently a very "soft" skier.
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@under a new name, I really need to learn more finesse rather than just hitting things 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Scarpa, aye , sounds like it
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