Anyone got experience of Bureau des Guides La Grave?

A snowHead

Hi all,

I'm going to be in La Grave from 3rd to 10th of January cascade climbing (hurray for non-Scottish winter climbing!!). However, it seems a shame not to spend at least 1 day skiing given its awesome reputation. The other guys in the party don't ski, therefore I'm looking at going with a guide. Does anyone have any experience of the Bureau des Guides? I don't want dont just ski the two most obvious routes, and it looks like they offer groups that do a bit more(I'll have touring skis with me if that helps, not sure how essential they are for the terrain there though). Just wondered if anyone could relate an experience of skiing with them before? Recommendations for other guides also welcome!

A snowHead

They know their stuff, as you'd expect as they're kind of the centre of all things in that village.
We used a couple of guys from there just 'off the shelf' - Robin was very good.

Recommendations depends a little what you're looking for of course.
Allain Tallaron from Serre Chevalier (just down the road) is excellent, a little older, very considered in his approach - U tend to feel very safe.
Anthony Franklin, they say, is in his forties - hard to tell: at the speed he goes, he's just a blur... he could be 23! U tend to feel very excited.

Both of these guys are good in very different ways Toofy Grin

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

@hollando, do you know where you're staying yet in LG and will you not have a guide for the ice climbing ?

That's probably going to be the same week as the Euro Avalanche Course so will be a fair number of Anglo Saxons in the village.

That time of year is a little quiet and the Bureau might be a little erratic in what they can offer, there will be guides around but you could end up paying a day rate (circa 360 euro) for just you and the guide as there will not be enough punters around to make up groups.

In your position, and you obviously are not afraid of being exposed etc hence not wanting to do Chancel and Vallons which is what most day trip visitors do (though with good conditions can be great), you will need a guide to do the more interesting stuff, but again will depend on snow conditions.

So what I would advise is suss things out once you are there, if staying in the Edelweiss then Robin (the owner) will be able to sort you out. And if you're in the Castillian (where most guides hang out) then just ask around.

I ski La Grave without a guide and I only bother coming over if the conditions are worthwhile and the last couple of trips I found La Grave to be more tracked out than what I knew was available in Serre , though last season I also had some classic days with a guide and friends I'd brought over for the LG experience!

I enjoy skiing the area now, within my limited constraints since 97, and relish the route finding as much as the skiing as I know "roughly" where to go away from main routes but still be safe (famous last words) rolling eyes

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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

And feck me this just turned up via FaceBook

"Nothing like exposed rock faces and mandatory airs to keep you on top of your game!

Follow Ian McIntosh through La Grave's "Y" Couloir in this new episode of Behind The Line"

http://bit.ly/1EiB75M if that link doesn't work this should below

http://www.tetongravity.com/video/ski/ian-mcintosh-skis-the-y-couloir-in-la-grave-france

That's a little off my comfort scale rolling eyes

And you'll often see Joe guiding little less hard core skiers, he loves it whatever he's doing, his enthusiasm is infectious, though I've never skied with him............

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@Weathercam he takes a pretty serious header at the end there. I guess at that speed the chance of going down one of those slots is reduced.

Seriously impressive, though. One of the local dogs is supposed to have done it a few years back. I immediately though this was bs until I saw a dog come belting out of the Patou and scamper off back to P1. I then rode the lift with it a few days later and noted that it knew it had to change cars at P2. So possible.

OP. Jan 3rd is likely to be pretty bony. You may well be limited to Vallons and Chancel given the amount of rock there is up there and the amount of snow it takes to fill everything in is substantial.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

The other point is that a guide is unlikely to take you on one of the more interesting routes without getting a look at your skiing first... on the Valons or Chancel most likely. There are lots of interesting variations of the classic routes. Eg Patou and the other "Lac" couloirs off the Chancel or the Triffides off Valons. As others have said, it's quite early season so who knows what will have filled in and if you are joining a group you'll only do what the worst skier on the group can do

After all it is free

^ great TGR video Very Happy

I am told the tram ridding dog is owned by the french guy who runs the restaurant at 3200m.

@Haggis_Trap, he did use to run the one at 3200 but now runs the Chancel.

First time I ever skied La Grave on my own was in 2009 and I remember it well for the reason of the dog!

Conditions were none to brilliant with heavy cloud and viz a little demanding, I was going down Vallons trying to find my route across to get on to the traverse to P2, I stopped for what ever reason and my ski pole started being pulled away from me. I looked down and the dog was playing tug of war with my basket.

It was just me and the dog up there and I'd often seen the dog doing his thing and I took this as a sort of ironic moment in that I might not have a human guide with me but a four legged one!

As I skied down he stayed with me and out of the bad viz either him or me found the traverse back to P2 where we then shared a lift back up to P3 !

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Sounds like you could do worse than turning up, waiting for the dog and just following him..

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

@MattCee, Doooooooooooooohhhh that was a well kept secret Toofy Grin

But yes is always worth a punt as he does have the guides there anyway and if he's light on clients staying he'll always welcome a few extra euro.

snow reports

Awesome dog!!

While we're on the subject, I'm hoping to get to La Grave for a day or two this winter at some point. Can anyone recommend any super cheap places to stay (will be driving so can be out of town)? Would we have problems if we just parked up somewhere and slept in the car?

@clarky999, many do just live in vans in the telepherique car park though not as many as you'd maybe suspect, might have something to do with the cold !!

Castilian is pretty cheap too

You know it makes sense.

^ you would struggle to find somewhere expensive to stay in La Grave Wink

Gite du rocher is a great youth hostel right next to the lift.
Hotel Castillian is a little more expensive - with a nice breakfast.
Tourist office will also have a list of local gites out of town that will be even cheaper.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

@clarky999, there's always a contingent who live in vans parked by the telepherique. there are washrooms on the bottom floor where you can have a wash in the morning. as weathercam says it can be effin cold - that spot gets no direct sunlight in January!

there's a gite by the road as you drive into town which looks reasonably priced - no idea about cleanliness etc (edit - that's the one Haggis Trap mentioned)
think there's a decent gite up in Villar d'Arene - les Melezes. the Hotel Les Agneaux up that way is pretty reasonably priced for what you get

A snowHead

Also a Gite in Les Freux but with Gites in the off season they have a mind of their own when they might open alsp fair number up behind LG in Terrace and Chazelet.

Anyway I'm out of here, some nice wind and waves to be had outside in my back garden now Cool

A snowHead

@clarky999, or you could stay here:

http://www.refugealpearene.fr/

which puts you in striking distance of some of the stuff off the full TGR La Grave clip:

or the Col du Roche Faurio

or the Breche de la Somme couloirs

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

@Haggis_Trap, @Weathercam, @Arno, thanks.

PHWOAR those couloirs are sexy! Some in a scary high heels thigh-length leather boots not sure what she's gonna do with those whips and chains kind of sexy, but sexy nonetheless!!

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Gite le Rocher's accommodation is good and the food is not bad either. Half board is a bargain. Decor is weird. There is a gold dildo (presumably unused) on the wall in the living area. Phalluses aside, highly recommended.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Cheers for all the info guys Very Happy

Being a stereotypical climber and wanting to save money I'm staying in Gite le Rocher. Going to blow what I've saved on the ski day. Good info r.e. the snowpack, guess I'm used to the arlberg which has always been good at that time of year for me. Cheers for all the recommendations, will look into them-including the dog! Not trying to be overambitious in wanting to see more than the main routes, I'm sure they're great. Just seems like theres some proper adventures to be had-although I understand the bit about guides wanting to gauge experience before considering more difficult stuff

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You absolutely need a guide, especially for the routes going all the way down to the road (huge amount of vertical) such at La Voute, which you couldn't know were there otherwise and some of which need a rope to access.
Pierre Rizzardo and Jean Yves Hubaud are good but popular so may be booked up by now. Philippe André, my favourite, was booked up many months ago (In late May I took his last remaining January week for my group!).

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Yeah, I wouldn't really consider going without one unless theres people in the gite who now their way round. More likely to get the best of the snow with a guide anyhow. Out of interest do the Chancel and the Vallons compare readily to any well known off piste routes elsewhere e.g. Pas de Chevre/ Glacier des Rognons in Cham, the stuff off Valluga at St Anton etc?

After all it is free

@hollando, neither of the "trade routes" are particularly difficult technically. The Vallons has one steepish bit but nothing more than stiff black run steepness. It's probably harder to go wrong from a navigation point of view on the Vallons side. If you branch off the Chancel, you can find yourself in some very interesting places and the route on Chancel is a bit less obviously defined. Both have a slightly tedious traverse back to P1 (first intermediate station on the lift) unless you go all the way to the bottom from the Vallons. whether you can do that depends on snow conditions - it can get a bit thin

neither is particularly crevassed etc so lots of people ski them without harnesses ropes etc - i'll let you make your own mind up about that

^ the vertical descent in LG is huge. skiing under la meije is pretty special.
there is enough skiing just in the 2 main valleys to keep you going for several days by the time you explore all the variations (banane, trifide, patou)
with the vamos book + map + common sense / previous off piste experience you could happily explore the vallons de meije / chancel on your own.
though as mentioned going further afield defn requires local knowledge.
people regularly get lost / stuck and need to be rescued every winter.

in early Jan the glacier might not yet be filled in safely so you will probably be skiing in the 2 main valleys.
this is still fun and adventurous - especially when there is cold dry snow all the way down to village level.
if this is the scenario you could just join up with a ski instructor group rather than book a full UIAGM (might be a little cheaper).

you can find a dorky wee home video of our last trip to LG (Jan 2014) here which will give you a decent idea what to expect.
http://www.haggistrap.co.uk/photostrs/lagrave2014.shtml

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The back of the Valluga is significantly more hazardous than either of the main routes at LG. Obviously there are places on the main routes that are dangerous and places just off the main routes that are potentially very dangerous. But if the top of the north face of the Valluga slides then it's goodnight Vienna. I think that's an order of magnitude more serious than anything directly on Vallons or Chancel.

Otherwise neither main route really exceeds red run gradient very much. The wall at the start of Vallons may be intimidating but isn't much more than 30 degrees. There is also obvious persistent serac hazard in the right hand side of the Vallons route (the so-called zone interdit). If you get caught in that you are completely Be Nice please!

. The chutes on the left hand side of Vallons (around the Breche Pacave) will also purge down into the main route. I had an embarassing incident there five years ago that I don't like to talk about.

The lake couloirs are avalanche prone and potentially hazardous, although none really exceed 35 degrees. The snowfield to skiers right of the Patou couloir, is also prone to windslab and will flush you over cliffs in the direction of the lake. There isn't any reason to be there but people periodically mess up. Similarly, dropping below the treeline in Chancel is going to result in problems. The traverse back to P1 is roughly at the level the treeline begins. That's not an exhaustive list of everything that might cause serious problems but those are the ones that spring to mind right now.

I'd still recommend a guided group but there will probably be likeminded people in the Gite that know what they are doing. It is a very special place but there is a lot of bs talked about how gnarly it is. It can be as safe or as dangerous as the choices you make.

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

Never underestimate what many perceive to be the safer areas which came as quite a surprise to me when I heard it that after a fresh snowfall below P2 can be very dangerous as people tend to think that they are in safe terrain as being less exposed it comes across as more of a playground with the undulating gulleys and the like just before you hit the tree line or drop down to Vallons and many don't think about being in avalanche traps etc.

If I was back only having a couple of weeks skiing a year then I would do the skiers lodge - if the snow is bad in La Grave you do road trips to get to the better conditions, that's how I first skied the likes of Serre, Montgenevre and Claviere etc

And if going to La Grave, don't forget the hidden gem that can be Chazelet where you can just pay for one randonee lift to give you access to the plateau or half way up to Signal La Grave.

snow reports

Yes of course the two main ways down don't really need a guide and are black standard, if that. The point of the place, though, is the many couloirs and some very steep slopes, many of which are much steeper than the back of Valluga and there is regular cliff danger if you don't know where you are going. There are half a dozen wonderful, long, steep routes going down to the road to the West of the village but some aren't always considered safe to ski. And certainly a day off the back to St Christoph is worth it. Very gentle after the first moderately steep bit, but very long and scenic.

It will probably be fine by then but it is so rocky that the season starts much later than most places.

You know it makes sense.

Great, reading all this detail on La Grave, I'm living vicariously here, I need to get back there soon, a true off piste Mecca. Big thumbs up for skiers lodge, top class,

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Another thumbs up for Skiers Lodge! Great place to stay and four course hearty meals each night. Pelle and his team will look after you really well.

Help!!

Anyone got experience of Bureau des Guides La Grave?

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