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DIY v TO

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Quote:

The tour operator knew about this in advance, and took us to a hotel for the first night by Annecy. If you do it yourself, you would be sat in a traffic jam for hours wondering why it was not moving all night long.


Really? Do you honestly think people would just sit there all night wondering why? Personally I'd be on twitter, SH etc to find out what the situation was and sort out an alternative.

Sure it's nice to have a TO to sort something like this out for you, but to suggest anyone DIY would just sit there and do nothing is laughable. Again is horses for courses, but I'd much rather have the decision making done by me rather than relying on someone else to sort it out
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Quote:

Driving yourself can be fraught with problems. Roads are treacherous, and a flat tyre on a steep mountain ice covered road is not a simple procedure to get yourself out of. The mobile phone might not work, and you may be there for hours if not days.


WTF Shocked Where you skiing, outer Mongolia?

The roads up to most ski resorts are about as scary as your average A road - they're roads designed to get people there with minimum fuss - so they're cleared and monitored and designed for blinking big coaches. Sure you need to take care but it really is not that difficult to drive into a ski resort!
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Boris, Most of the time the roads are clear, and the drive will be smooth, especially when you are taken up by experienced drivers who listen to road conditions. Travelling in a foreign country, with a language you are not able to translate easily, makes it less likely you will pick up on problems like avalanches or accidents. Reception for mobiles, and mobile internet, is not that good in mountaneous areas and in tunnels.

The road up to Tignes is probably the one which I have the most frequent experience of driving up. Not many big buses go up there, mostly minibuses after dropping people off in Val d'isere. However, there are regular buses which take people up and down from Tignes les Boisses.

Problems I have encountered do not include a flat tyre or any accident. However, I have experienced steep ice and compacted snow on the road up to Tignes Val Claret on which my van would not move up. I have also been on mountain passes, when the snow storm was so bad I had to pull over in a lay by and sleep it out.

Most ski resorts at high altitude have winding steep roads, with people driving up and down them like lunatics. Buses in particular are things to avoid. You are best avoiding times when buses are frequent (like weekends)

Sure it is easy to do when the weather is good and the traffic is quiet. I do not agree that any of these roads are designed for big coaches though. Most people who travel to ski resorts on big coaches will probably have experienced some form of anxiety when looking over the edge and seeing their bus driver overtake on a narrow steep winding road.

Maybe I am exaggerating the case. I do not think I am though. My van struggled to get reach the top of some resorts, the engine started overheating due to the steepness of the climb. I had to rest it sometimes on the way up to Val d'Isere due to reaching the red zone.


Laughing


Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Tue 7-10-14 14:54; edited 1 time in total
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Individual circustances (and what you're looking for) have a big part to play in whether TO or DIY is more suitable - i fall into the TO bracket (though have done a couple of DIY) more as there are only the 2 of us,we tend to go low season and able to book late and usually only consider half board or Catered Chalet as don't want to cook and find eating out twice a day in the alps way too expensive, wheras i can understand a family of 4 or more can make good savings going DIY if having to go peak weeks and are happy to self-cater.

The main issue for couples and singles for a lot of places in the alps is the added cost of transfers/car hire can be very high if you go the DIY route - we had a really nice holiday in Folgarida about 3 years ago(think it was Neilson we went with but no rep in resort which we didn't mind) and have been looking into going back again but none of the main tour ops offer anything there now. I've had a look at a few hotels and also the folgarida.co.uk website but didn't feel any offered a lot of value - i then stumbled on a hotel/refuge that's on top of the mountain that had really good reviews and found they are doing a special deal at the end of Jan that includes lift pass and group ski lessons for £550 each half board which i think is excellent value but once i started exploring flights(luggage and skis really bump up a pretty reasonable basic flight price) and transfers/car hire it then starts to creep towards the £750-£800 each all in.

Wheras if we wait till Jan and look for a late deal i know we'll pick something up for less than £600 each including lift passes.

I realise that sometimes you need to pay extra to go exactly where you want rather than settling on a place because it's cheap/a good deal it's just that i find having to pay in effect more to get there than a week's half board accommodation off putting- i haven't ruled out going back to Folgarida in future but will probably look into it if there are going to be 4 or more of us and be on the ball for getting the best flight prices etc.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Quote:

Buses in particular are things to avoid. You are best avoiding times when buses are frequent


Tricky for those booked with a TO, as they're likely to be on one Laughing wink
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You'll need to Register first of course.
Definitely TO for me for winter holidays. Only 2 of us, not fussy eaters and no skis to transport. Generally aiming for off peak and keen to experience many resorts having not been to many yet making TO late deals difficult to beat.

Add in that that there's more to go wrong weather wise and TO is right for our needs. This may well change in time with increased experience or changes to needs/ wants over time.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Slightly OT but, Atomic_Mick, Crystal are doing the Park Hotel in Folgarida - piste-side location. No deals at the moment, but worth keeping an eye on, possibly.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Cacciatore, thanks for that - i had actually seen that before but ruled it out due to cost and not particularly great reviews on Tripadvisor.

It's a great shame that more TO's don't run anything in Folgarida as it's a lovely area but i guess as it's a very small resort(although a fair sized ski area combined with Madonna) and lack of catered chalets don't make it very feasible for them. I notice that there's no Crystal rep at the Park hotel so guessing they just do a drop off and pick up on way to and from Passo Tonale like when we were there.
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Bigtipper, how old is your van? Do you have winter chains and snowchains?
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Layne, I no longer have the van. I wrecked the electrics in it, and figured that due to rust in the brakes it was not worth much. (probably about £500) I did not want to sell it, so I advertised it locally for free to anyone who could tow it away. That was about 5- 6 years ago now.

I wrecked the electrics by doing my own repairs, and by trying to use the windscreen wipers when there was lots of heavy snow on them. The van sat on the drive for a while, and mice made a home in the engine and ate more of the electrics. There was oil coming in the air intake (I do not know how this was happening, maybe some garage expert sprayed oil in my air intake vents)

I still have the snowchains though, and all the other bits and bods I collected which made van living easier (like levelling blocks, wheel blocks, electric hook-ups, petrol heater, tools, etc.)

I did 30,000 miles mostly in Europe in it, and it had somewhere between 65,000-70,000 on the clock when I got rid of it. I have not seen it since. (except in my dreams and old pictures)



Anyone seen this in Europe recently?
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Atomic_Mick, absolutely agree - a real shame more UK operators don't go there. First time I went was with Rocket Ski who were offering one of the hotels in the lower part of town (Americana IIRC). Mid-march for about £320 F, T and HB Cool
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Bigtipper, the reason I was asking is because a van (or car) in good condition, with winter tyres and snow chains would not have any trouble driving to any of the resorts I've been to over many a year. And we are talking Arc 2000, Aime La Plagne, Val T.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
All this definitely is a UK-orientated quandary, practically all Mainland Europeans organise themselves and get themselves to and from the resorts with relatively little problems (except getting stuck behind TO transfer buses on narrow windy mountain roads maybe? wink ) It ain't rocket science to organise yourself, I did it for years from the UK, not only for myself but also for large groups (up to 80 people on occasion).
After being let down badly by two major specialist tour operators in fairly rapid succession, I found it better and more secure to source all the services myself - transport from the UK, ski hire and instruction, passes and accommodation. Just depends on how much effort you want to put in I suppose. Speaking the local languages helps, I'm lucky enough to be fluent in both German and French (bit rusty on the French these days being based permanently in German speaking areas, so I was able to negotiate fair prices for groups in the resorts we chose. We actually made enough profit most years by putting all the monies collected into a deposit account that we were able to also pay for some outings and evening entertainment.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Quote:


Anyone seen this in Europe recently?

Yes.
We cleared that amount off the roof in Arabba about 2-3 times each day.
Snow chains on, got around the resort OK.
Pass was closed... but that pass was closed to everything! No special treatment for TO buses, nor DIYers, and indeed even the resort's own subsidised bus would not run. Avalanches don't single out TO vs DIY journey makers.

Oh and apart from the time I drove up to Tignes Val Claret, every other time I've been up there os on a 40 seater bus. In winter.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
That's the thing though Samerberg Sue, getting good value for taking a group is a lot easier than if there is just the 2 of you - i've used Suntransfers a few times when going to the Med and the cost's of hiring minibuses and coaches is surprisingly cheap and on looking at their alpine offers its good value for ski resorts too.

As to your point about mainland europeans making their own way i'm guessing as many don't have to factor in flights/ferry/tunnel and more than likely at least 8 hours closer to ski resorts than most British skiers means they'll take their own cars too saving a big bulk of the cost.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Layne, this van had no trouble. I just forgot to put the snow chains on, which I had to then do on a steep slope. What I am saying is that if you get in trouble, you are to some extent "on your own". That means you have to think ahead.

Have you ever had a look at the sides of the roads which these buses go up. Are you aware that roads can collapse, particularly if they are not built for the level of traffic and weight of traffic on them?

I am sure that buses do go up and down to Tignes. As I said the free buses go from Tignes les Boisses to Tignes Val Claret all the time. (except when the weather is bad!)

This van was in Val Thorens, but did not bother with the other two. It did stay in the funicular car park in Bourg St Maurice a few times though.

Here is an advert for a similar van to the one I gave away for free. It looks in better condition, having had a recent MOT. This has more power in the engine, I only had a 1.9D.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Peugeot-Boxer-2-5-diesel-SWB-2000-/181545592924?pt=UK_Commercial_Trucks&hash=item2a44f5e85c

here is another

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2002-CITROEN-RELAY-1000-TD-2-0-HDI-VAN-SWB-NO-MOT-OR-TAX-GOOD-RUNNER/201185424678?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20140122125356%26meid%3Dff50d2e16a484536831b5585a152a330%26pid%3D100005%26prg%3D20140122125356%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D181545592924&rt=nc

Would you bother selling one of these?

Laughing
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Atomic_Mick, I've always done the same for my solo and couple trips as well. I don't think I ever used a TO for my private trips when I was based in the UK. Later on I often used my solo/couple trips to check out new resorts for my groups. All comes down to networking if you are working with groups! wink
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
andy wrote:
Whole point of TO vs DIY is not to compare like for like, but the fact that DIY gives the freedom to go where TO don't. Either other resorts, different accommodation, etc. And there's an awful lot of chalets and apartments out there (and hotels too) that don't feature in the brochure.


That is very true - but most of us with only 1 ski trip a year tend to prefer the known name resorts - possibly without good reason. There have been a couple of times I have come close to booking DIY at a "different" resort.

Quote:

Plus with DIY you don't get the sales spiel and coersion to join all the extra-cost activities, that you do when you have to go to the bar in a different hotel at exactly 8pm to collect lift passes from the TO rep. DIY... my lift pass appears on the breakfast table, or I collect it in my own time from the lift office.


Never done that - and all my ski trips have been TO.

On the few occasions I have booked a lift pass in advance with the TO, it has always been handed out on the bus. And I have also bought the pass on the transfer bus without advance booking.

But usually I just go to the nearest lift and get it direct - particularly since I am usually on an early enough flight that I can get an hour or two skiing in on the Saturday.
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 You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Never had a TO pre-ordered lift pass handed out on the bus.
Have had the info pack handed on the bus... with all the details about where and when the rep will be.

I guess this probably depends partly on destination airport, and destination resort. For half the French resorts, it's often a 3 hour coach trip. For Innsbruck to Mayrhofen, it's not only an hour, but was also common to get every one out of the airport asap on big buses, and dropped at Jenbach (20-30mins away), then transferred on to several minibuses to go to specific resorts (Mayrhofen, Alpbach,...).

Maybe Inghams just do things differently to Crystal and the rest. Or maybe the lift office is too busy to print 200 passes to have ready to go on the TO buses to the airport at 7am on a Saturday that hopefully then get united with the incoming customers at noon.

Always DIY now, mainly because there's no such thing as a package deal from here. Well there is, but only to places like Lanzarote with TUIfly.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Once went at xmas and the TO made a mistake and gave a free lift pass! Was obv a mistake because there was a non-skiing member of the group who got one too!
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 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
Same experience as alex_heney, here, always had passes handed out on the transfer bus.

When my stepdaughter worked for one of the big TOs she always had the pre-ordered passes on the transfer to dish out and extras for anyone buying on the bus. I remember this coz she used to get in a right tizz making sure all the receipts for any 'on the bus' sales, for tickets, hire, lessons, excursions etc were kept safe. Iirc if the receipts were lost then they were financially penalised.

After chatting to denfinella, and realising it's viable, I'm looking at pricing up a DIY outta Dalcross for Easter. But flights are only showing up to end of March '15. Anyone any idea when the April '15 flights will be published/available? It's flybe btw.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Interesting thread & it's appropriate at the moment as we are looking to rent an apartment for 6 people Feb 1/2 term [our two eldest children won't be with us this year] we have DIY'd for the last three seasons as it was more cost effective & we actually like self catering.

Now just got to find a ski in/out apartment in fantastic ski area [France] for incredible deal...any offers /tips from Snowheads Smile
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