 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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To be honest I just prefer using an edge guide and files / diamond files. Versatile, you can buy different grades of file later and this also allows you to change edge angles on skis.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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A tool with rollers definitely works better and is easier to use.
I tune all the skis my family owns to 87 degrees and 0.7 degree base angle. Having the same angle makes life so much easier and unless you are skiing competitively at a very high level the differences are not worth worrying about. The first time you make a mistake and use the wrong angle you will understand what I mean.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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hyperkub,
Hi thanks for the advice it is part of the reason why I have not ruled out set angle tools but as the family will be starting to learn within the next month they will not want the same edge and base angles I do.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Just get all the files and two angle guides, an 88 and an 87. I use a 0.7 base but to be honest could not tell the difference between that and a 1, but the side angle makes quite a bit.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I get this question about edge angles regularly from parents of chldren I coach. My standard answer is that the exact angle doesn't matter much up to intermadiate level, just so long as they are sharp. There are more important things to worry about and higher priority things to spend money on. It's the same with wax, some parents seem to think you need 6 different grades of high fluoro wax, when the difference it makes is pretty marginal.
With one angle guide, coarse and fine files and a diamond file you can do an awful lot. Everything beyond that point is a case of diminishing returns. You can get away with just doing the base angle by hand with the diamond file, so long as it's been set form the beginning by a shop. Some skis come new in the wrapper with 0 degrees base edge, it you are dealing with one of them you obviously need tools.
A set of clamps for holding skis is useful. You can improvise, but proper clamps do save time.
Keep it simple is my advice.
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| hyperkub wrote: |
I get this question about edge angles regularly from parents of chldren I coach. My standard answer is that the exact angle doesn't matter much up to intermadiate level, just so long as they are sharp. There are more important things to worry about and higher priority things to spend money on. It's the same with wax, some parents seem to think you need 6 different grades of high fluoro wax, when the difference it makes is pretty marginal.
With one angle guide, coarse and fine files and a diamond file you can do an awful lot. Everything beyond that point is a case of diminishing returns. You can get away with just doing the base angle by hand with the diamond file, so long as it's been set form the beginning by a shop. Some skis come new in the wrapper with 0 degrees base edge, it you are dealing with one of them you obviously need tools.
A set of clamps for holding skis is useful. You can improvise, but proper clamps do save time.
Keep it simple is my advice. |
Novice question - if I get ToKo's edge tuning guide with adjustable angles - can I use it also for the base edge - settig for example at 1 degree? Or would I really need separate angle guides?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
| Novice question - if I get ToKo's edge tuning guide with adjustable angles - can I use it also for the base edge - settig for example at 1 degree? Or would I really need separate angle guides? |
You need a separate guide. However, once set as I understand it you shouldn't need to do it again because you are sharpening the side edge each time. So you will only need one should you have skis where the base edge is not set correctly.
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| mooney058 wrote: |
| hyperkub wrote: |
I get this question about edge angles regularly from parents of chldren I coach. My standard answer is that the exact angle doesn't matter much up to intermadiate level, just so long as they are sharp. There are more important things to worry about and higher priority things to spend money on. It's the same with wax, some parents seem to think you need 6 different grades of high fluoro wax, when the difference it makes is pretty marginal.
With one angle guide, coarse and fine files and a diamond file you can do an awful lot. Everything beyond that point is a case of diminishing returns. You can get away with just doing the base angle by hand with the diamond file, so long as it's been set form the beginning by a shop. Some skis come new in the wrapper with 0 degrees base edge, it you are dealing with one of them you obviously need tools.
A set of clamps for holding skis is useful. You can improvise, but proper clamps do save time.
Keep it simple is my advice. |
Novice question - if I get ToKo's edge tuning guide with adjustable angles - can I use it also for the base edge - settig for example at 1 degree? Or would I really need separate angle guides? |
I have the TOKO Edge Pro tool. It does work great, but mine only came with 1 super coarse file. I am now considering getting a set edge one, and some proper files, and diamond stones - just to keep them sharp.
I'm quite a gear freak, so I can justify the outlay (at least to myself  )
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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speed098, I could give you chapter & verse on this subject by I'm posting from my phone on holiday so I can't be arsed! Basically none of the adjustable tools are accurate enough to return to the same setting & anything with rollers is just marketing hype as the rollers clog & there's insufficient surface area for stable use. Also avoid anything with multiple cutters as they're too small to be stable.
Use a metal fixed angle side edge guide with a separate spring clamp as it's by far the best/most accurate/cost effective solution - my Skiman side edge angle guides are superb & are only £17 & my super strong clamps are only £4. There's a list of most of the ski manufacturers' side edge guides on my website so choose the angle from all of the skis you own which is the steepest & set all edges to that - which is usually 87 degrees (= 3 degrees).
Even if you don't have any skis with this side edge angle I'd still recommend setting them to 87 for best hard snow/ice performance & in soft snow the edges are just along for the ride so it doesn't matter. Also there's no less durability from an 87 edge compared to an 88 or 89 so an 87 degree side edge angle is a no-brainer for the DIY tuner!
To this guide you then clamp your alu-oxide stone, 120mm medium (& fine if your budget runs to it) metal file & your 200/600grit diamond files.
99.9% of skis come with a 1 degree base edge angle guide so a £10 Kunzmann plastic base edge angle guide is all that's needed to maintain it - any of the megabucks base guides are just marketing bollux as they're really just a shim to set the file/stone to the correct angle & the stiffness should be in the file/stone not in the guide so a plastic one is fine. And the only way a base edge angle can be reduced us to first base grind the skis which should really be avoided until necessary.
You will however most likely need a sidewall trimmer as most skis these days come with sidewallls that are flush with the side edge angle so need trimming back.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| spyderjon wrote: |
speed098, I could give you chapter & verse on this subject by I'm posting from my phone on holiday so I can't be arsed! Basically none of the adjustable tools are accurate enough to return to the same setting & anything with rollers is just marketing hype as the rollers clog & there's insufficient surface area for stable use. Also avoid anything with multiple cutters as they're too small to be stable.
Use a metal fixed angle side edge guide with a separate spring clamp as it's by far the best/most accurate/cost effective solution - my Skiman side edge angle guides are superb & are only £17 & my super strong clamps are only £4. There's a list of most of the ski manufacturers' side edge guides on my website so choose the angle from all of the skis you own which is the steepest & set all edges to that - which is usually 87 degrees (= 3 degrees).
Even if you don't have any skis with this side edge angle I'd still recommend setting them to 87 for best hard snow/ice performance & in soft snow the edges are just along for the ride so it doesn't matter. Also there's no less durability from an 87 edge compared to an 88 or 89 so an 87 degree side edge angle is a no-brainer for the DIY tuner!
To this guide you then clamp your alu-oxide stone, 120mm medium (& fine if your budget runs to it) metal file & your 200/600grit diamond files.
99.9% of skis come with a 1 degree base edge angle guide so a £10 Kunzmann plastic base edge angle guide is all that's needed to maintain it - any of the megabucks base guides are just marketing bollux as they're really just a shim to set the file/stone to the correct angle & the stiffness should be in the file/stone not in the guide so a plastic one is fine. And the only way a base edge angle can be reduced us to first base grind the skis which should really be avoided until necessary.
You will however most likely need a sidewall trimmer as most skis these days come with sidewallls that are flush with the side edge angle so need trimming back. |
Spyderjon, many thanks for this and your valuable time on your hols! I'm still torn between the two options:
1. Non-adjustable tools for side edge: (a) costs 17+4 =21
2. Adjustable (take ToKo with or without rollers): (a) circa 25-30 on amazon.de
As I see the costs are basicaly the same for adjustable and non-adjustable options. Now, the accuracy is important, that is why people do edge tuning. So I am hesitating whether there will be a perceivable difference between the two options, could it be that non-adjustable tool is less fool-proof comparing to the adjustable ToKo so the trade-off is that accuracy will be similar for the occasional user? Also the adjustable option looks more stable in a hand and comes in one piece.
I understand base angle guide should be simplier, and that will go going into the 'basket' soon. Metal and dimond files, stones are the same for both.
Still a couple of months to decide before hitting the slopes. I do not own skis, always rent and most of the time they were terribly prepared (unprepared) so I started looking for some basic tools
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| Quote: |
| Now, the accuracy is important, that is why people do edge tuning. |
Accuracy isn't important for recreational skiers. Edge tuning is important because you need an edge, that is all.
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| I do not own skis, always rent and most of the time they were terribly prepared (unprepared) so I started looking for some basic tools |
So you're planning to service hire ski's. That's barmy. If the ski's are unprepared ask them for another pair or go elsewhere. There is no reason why you should accept hire ski's that do not have good edges, fully waxed, etc. Also, I suspect the shop would have a dicky fit if they found out you'd messed with their gear. For recreational skiers a service prior to each weeks skiing should be plenty. Your hire ski's shouldn't need much doing during the week but if they do you should go back to the shop.
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You know it makes sense.
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I would also council against most adjustable tools. It's pretty annoying when you've finished your skis only to look down and see that you tool has adjusted itself to a different angle. Been there, got the T-shirt.
Now I use an FKS summat-or-other which has little plastic wedges to set the angle. Simple and reliable - and no rollers. Can't see them lasting 5 minutes.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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In my last trip in April to Chamonix we had an ex-racer in our group (he prepares his skis all the time), when he looked at our rentals, he said in front of the shop guys and a manager that they were unprepared. All we got back is a look at as, not even a reaction.... April snow was very hard - skiing first day with 'default' rentals and tuned the next day by our ex-racer - same skis changed the feeling completely. That is why I want to have a basic set so that the first everning I just give a quick hand and have skis ready for a week. Same week in April I had a go at my rental and I did lots of DIY in different areas, I do not think I would damage rental skis ... What I do not want to damage is my legs when falling because of badly prepared skis. So basic tune set is what I am looking for.[/quote]
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
| In my last trip in April to Chamonix we had an ex-racer in our group (he prepares his skis all the time), when he looked at our rentals, he said in front of the shop guys and a manager that they were unprepared. All we got back is a look at as, not even a reaction.... |
How many ski hire shops are there in Chamonix? Why would still accept them? If I was passing a stash of Euros over the counter I'd expect to get something fit for purpose. If I get a hire car I expect it to have been fully maintained and wouldn't expect to check the oil and tyres after I drove it away.
Anyhow, I have no particular wish to deter anyone from DIY ski servicing, rental skis or otherwise so I'll say no more on the matter.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Layne wrote: |
| Quote: |
| In my last trip in April to Chamonix we had an ex-racer in our group (he prepares his skis all the time), when he looked at our rentals, he said in front of the shop guys and a manager that they were unprepared. All we got back is a look at as, not even a reaction.... |
How many ski hire shops are there in Chamonix? Why would still accept them? If I was passing a stash of Euros over the counter I'd expect to get something fit for purpose. If I get a hire car I expect it to have been fully maintained and wouldn't expect to check the oil and tyres after I drove it away.
Anyhow, I have no particular wish to deter anyone from DIY ski servicing, rental skis or otherwise so I'll say no more on the matter. |
booking in advance with a good price, internet review were OK ... kind of organisational side - long trip to the Alpes, you hope to get your skis and hit the slopes asap.... for me, as a recreational skier, ski tuning was terra incognito up until this April, when I saw the difference when exactly the same pair of skies was tuned and not ...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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spyderjon,
Thanks for the info I will look at set files will probably buy 3 different angles to cover the family needs.
I have been looking at sidewall trimmer not sure which to get yet. Couple of the tools will be for now but rest are xmas list to relatives along with more files and stones rather than buying me more books.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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spyderjon's recomendation is a solid one. From having served my time as a ski tech before becoming a ski maker I can agree that any ski tool with added bling or functions beyond being a solid angle are a waste of time and effort.
The skis I make are 1% base bevel and 88% edge. Sharpening them at 87% wouldn't change them too much so if you are only buying one angle its a safe bet. I would spend more on files than on other angles, don't for get to wax 
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