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North America over New Year

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Hi,

The wife has just greenlit a 10 day trip to NA for NY! She's very experienced but still likes to stick to reds, whilst I'm a relative newbie and am just getting comfortable on trickier reds. So something that caters for intermediates well is a priority, off piste not so important yet.

She's been to Whistler a few times and is happy to go again, so that's an obvious choice but is there anywhere else people would recommend that compare well to Whistler? We like the idea of it all being in a self contained resort - we wont be hiring a car etc. Not set on any board type (understand it's mostly room only or SC) but keen for there to be decent restaurants nearby.

A quick google has suggested Vail or Lake Tahoe?

In terms of budget we are looking at around £2k for flights and accommodation per person.

Would be interested in hearing about any people's experiences re the new year crowds.

Cheers
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Quote:
Would be interested in hearing about any people's experiences re the new year crowds.
Went to Banf for new Year once. No crowds. In fact pleasantly deserted vs Europe at New Year week. I know that Bergmeister (who has been stuck with school hols) has been to Nth America loads at New Year/Feb half term/easter and has never had a problem with queues and crowds compared to the Alps.

IMO nothing will compare to Whistler in terms of scale/variety but, bearing that in mind, you could add the following to your list (both of which would fit the bill for skiing - though 'Lake Tahoe' presumably means Heavenly? Which doesn't really have a centre but is a bit of a sprawl of accommodation) and have a decent time. We've enjoyed all of these:

- Banff (ie Lake Louise/Norquay/Sunshine. Free buses between the resorts plus we did day trips (organised by our package hol company) to Nakiska and Panorama.
- Breckenridge. Keystone is also accessible by bus from there - it has a big nightskiing operation.
- Big White/Silver Star (there's a bus in between for a change of scene).
- Fernie - plus there's a great day-trip catskiing operator nearby (Fernie Wilderness Adventures) - highly recommended.
- Park City - plus the nearby areas of The Canyons and Deer Valley are easy to get to by bus. We didn't have a car and visited all of those areas and also had a couple of nights at Alta/Snowbird. We also bussed to the nearby olympic park (nr. Park City) for a terrifying but fantastic bobsleigh run.

I know that you've said you don't want to hire a car - but if you were to relent, a Canadian road trip can be quite tiring but is hard to beat. We've done:

- Banff/Kicking Horse/wilderness lodge catskiing at Chatter Creek.
- Fernie/Castle Mountain/Pass Powderkeg/Fernie Wilderness Adventures catskiing.
- Big White/Silver Star/Revelstoke/Crystal Mountain/wilderness lodge catskiing at Mustang Powder.
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Lake Tahoe doesn't have to mean Heavenly - there's a lot more to it than just South Lake Tahoe. However, having said that, if you stay at Heavenly base, then you can be self contained and not need a car. Many of the other resorts in the area run buses from South Lake Tahoe, so you would be able to access more than just Heavenly.
It's also possible to stay at Squaw, and ski Squaw/Alpine, and take the bus to Northstar.

As for crowds - in the US it starts to get busy on Dec 26th, but busy generally means maybe a 5 - 10 minute wait for the busiest lifts. The Wednesday between Christmas and New Year is often the quietest day since in many resorts the kids ski teams take that day off and families do other things. Many people leave on Jan 1st or 2nd.
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These continent things can be quite large. It depends what you want...

It sounds like you're looking for a destination resort, so bear in mind that places you may have heard of (like Snowbird) aren't really that. So that's going to be somewhere big with reasonable airport access, which cuts the list down a bit.

California tends to be a bit warm and wettish. People seem to like skiing there, but personally it seems a shame to go so far for that type of snow. Whistler's a bit coastal also, and it's a zoo.

Utah has good dry snow, as do some interior BC places, although the best places aren't destinations. Banff (Alberta) is a destination, although the slopes are a bus ride away. So Banff or Park City would be worth consideration

The main tourist resorts in Colorado can seem pretty flat, but they are destination resorts and maybe what you're after. Any of the main destinations would do: they're pretty much the same. They do have good restaurants, something which can be hard to find in Utah or isolated bits of BC.

Americans tend to stay at home at Xmas, so that week is usually quiet. If you have a resort near to a major city (eg Whistler), then it'll get busy briefly on public holidays. There, Xmas day is usually quiet, but Boxing day can be busy as can New Years.

I mostly ride in the back country, so more people than I can remember the names of is a crowd to me. Even so, I seldom find Whistler "busy". As far as I can tell most people all like to follow each other - to queue up for the same lifts, to eat at the same time, and to ride the same few runs. If you think a tiny bit about what you want to do it's easy to avoid most people most of the time.
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I have only been to Winter Park CO in NA and loved it!! I bow down to others knowledge but i found WP had a great mix of every type of slope you could wish for. The resort , bus service and accessibility to other towns was great. Id certainly go back! Have to say the locals and staff were the nicest bunch i have ever come across.
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(yeah, Winter Park is good )
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I flew out NY eve too. There was a great party and atmosphere when we arrived. Snow was awesome with at least a 4" dump each night. Blue skies every day. Couldnt fault it! Darn if only i could take more than a week away from home id be there in a shot. Still i have the french and itallians to look forward to this year with a few snowheads thrown in to give it some sanity! Happy
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mountainaddict, I've always wanted to go to Lake Louise when it's covered in snow - have been a few times in the summer. However the wife is convinced that it would be too cold there! We've got family who live in Kelowna so Big White etc are an option. How feasible would it be to stay in Kelowna and then travel to each of the different resorts? Is there public transport/shuttles etc? Perhaps the main reason for us not to do Canada is that we have been planning a 3 week road trip from Calgary - Banff - Jasper - Kelowna - Vancouver - Portland for next Summer and we might want to spread our horizons a bit.

skinanny, I was thinking about Mammoth. However to maximise our chances of better snow, I'm inclined to go more inland.

From what I've been reading I like the sound of Deer Valley and Beaver Creek - high level of service, good for intermediates, nice hotels, other nearby resorts. philwig, have you been to DV or BC??

PaulC1984 - I'll read up on Winter Park!

Perhaps it's worth saying that the wife and I thinking about starting a family soon so she thinks this could be her last ski trip for a while, so we want to make it a belter!

Cheers
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DibergioI've been to Winter Park too. Loved the skiing/snow conditions (especially the moguls) but discounted it from my list of recommendations because although the town (which is a bus ride from the base area) is perfectly adequate for eating and drinking, IMO it doesn't have the ambience of somewhere like Banff or Breckenridge for a week's stay. This may be especially a factor if you loved Whistler. I also didn't include the tiny ghost village of Kicking Horse (very limited eating/drinking options and everywhere totally deserted for a New year week visit) for the same reason. We had two days there as part of a road trip.

We had a car for our Kelowna/Big White etc trip - so I'm afraid can't advise on public transport options in the area.
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Dibergio, Beaver Creek is very up market, manicured pistes, even the rest rooms on the Mountain are marble faced & have leather sofas. The food is good. The slopes are quiet, the bird of prey runs are a hoot. Free transport to nearby Vail so no need for a car. It might test your budget at NY after factoring in your lift pass.
Winter Park is well within budget, it is a fairly small ski area which does not matter if there is plenty of fresh snow as you can explore the woods as a change from the bump runs of Mary Jane. Not much of a town & not too much choice of eateries. Easy to get there & easy access from Denver, so I guess it will be rammed at w/e & holidays.
PaulC1984, if you thought WP was good, the Dolomites will blow your mind - see you there. Very Happy
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Nothing there I'd disagree with.

Dibergio wrote:
philwig, have you been to DV or BC??

Beaver Creek, yes, it's like Aspen/ Vail, only posher.

Deer Valley... I'm a snowboarder, so I drove past it... but it's reportedly flat and there are better places in Utah for the likes of me (Powder Mountain and Snowbird - neither of which would fit your needs however). It may be what you want, but I'd look at Park City first.

I have stayed in Kelowna and visited the resorts from there, but I can't remember without google what the time/ distance was. But then you're not really doing the "destination" thing, and although Kelowna is nice enough in summer, and it's a real BC town, it's no ski resort.

LL: it gets cold, but all you need is the right gear.

Winter Park has brilliant moguls, and it's about as far as I can drive from Denver when flying out from the UK. It's not really a tourist place though, so not everyone's up of tea. I'd say you'd be better in the main stream I70 resorts for a first time.
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Going to Tahoe and then Utah for Christmas/New Year. Starting in Kirkwood for some off-piste (interesting choice for first trip of the season) and then on to Deer Valley/Park City/Snowbird with the OH's family.

Never been to any of these places (the only US skiing I have done has been Squaw, Heavenly and Northstar, all at Tahoe). Looking forward to it immensely.
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Dibergio, Mammoth isn't Tahoe, but you are likely to find better snow in Mammoth at New Years - their base is at 9000 feet, which is 3000 feet higher than the base at Squaw. You wouldn't need a car in Mammoth - there's a decent bus service.
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You know it makes sense.
Lechbob, Cant wait for the bash - you can be my guide!! Happy

philwig, Yes, moguls were interesting. I spend 15 mins digging my idiotic brother out after he decided to head straight in on SL skis after a serious nights dump and drift - still it made for some fun photos wink
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Beaver Creek is fairly cool if you bypass the ridonculous village and just get on with skiing. Birds of Prey runs are testing enough for most and there's nice dabbling in the trees in many places. I suspect lodging can be had cheaper than Vail if you look at Edwards and Avon ( essentially the real towns).
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
philwig wrote:
Americans tend to stay at home at Xmas, so that week is usually quiet. If you have a resort near to a major city (eg Whistler), then it'll get busy briefly on public holidays. There, Xmas day is usually quiet, but Boxing day can be busy as can New Years.

That's a terrible advice!

The week between Christmas and New Year is THE busiest for North America ski resorts!!! And that's true of all mountains big and small.

Some mountains handle crowds better than others. Vail does a good job of dispersing crowds into its vast terrain far better than say, Brekenridge or Heavenly. (I've been to Heavenly during New Year, not an experience I would recommend to any but my worst enemy)

By and large, the more upscale the resort, the quieter it tend to be. Example: Aspen is brilliant during Feburary holiday period but I haven't been during New Year so can't vouch for that. But if I were a betting man, I would bet it'll be a lot quieter than even Vail. But Aspen is not easy to do on a tight budget. Beaver Creek is another good candidate of this catagory, upscale, exclusive and brilliant terrain for red-happy skiers. Winter Park, on the other hand, has a reputation of being rather a mad house during the holiday period.

Resorts in the middle of nowhere with limited bed base will be quieter than mountain near big cities. I was at Steamboat during Christmas time, it was busy but not unbearably so. It'a a quaint cowboy town, not a Disney look-a-like Whistler is.

For red piste oriented skiers, nothing beats the terrain of Steamboat!

Also keep in mind Christmas is rather early in the season, not all the mountains have all their piste open. I would stay away from the Tahoe area. Chances of good snow coverage is worse than the interior mountains in Utah and Colorado.

Again, Steamboat has a unique early season snow record. It seems to attract snow much better than even resorts in the neighbouring Colorado resorts.

You can fly directly into Hyden which is the closest airport to Steamboat. A quick taxi ride to the mountain (or the village if you prefer to stay "in town"). You won't need a car for your stay. A hot spring in the middle of town is brilliant to soak away the tired leg muscles.
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abc wrote:
That's a terrible advice!

The week between Christmas and New Year is THE busiest for North America ski resorts!!! And that's true of all mountains big and small.


The season in BC particularly doesn't start at that point, because, ahem, many Americans choose to take their holiday at home rather than travel, hence... see the original post. So typically Xmas day at Whistler is a quiet day. Peak season is much later, although the days are longer then too which helps a bit.

I'm mostly in BC at Xmas, so I'm not sure how the traffic is on I70, but that's a different market with different access.
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skinanny wrote:
Dibergio, Mammoth isn't Tahoe, but you are likely to find better snow in Mammoth at New Years - their base is at 9000 feet, which is 3000 feet higher than the base at Squaw. You wouldn't need a car in Mammoth - there's a decent bus service.


Plus there's a lift from the village these days too. And June Mountain is only about 30 mins away on the bus, don't know if its a separate ticket or whether you can use a Mammoth pass there...

Big fan of Mammoth - I learned to ride there.
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abc wrote:
For red piste oriented skiers, nothing beats the terrain of Steamboat!
+1 (except the Dolomites Toofy Grin ).
Reasonably priced accommodation available. Fly into Yampa via Houston or Dallas from LHR. Lift pass is expensive but get it cheaper when linked to a package purchase. I used American Ski Classics.
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Dibergio,

Immediately -or shortly - after the New Year is a good time to visit North American resorts: and most of the places recommended here are pretty good. I see that Winter Park has a couple of fans: I'm another. It's pretty good value, a reasonably large area (for N. Am) and you can take day trips to other Colorado resorts. The base area is quite high, so altitude can be a problem for the first couple of nights.

- If you choose WP, be aware that an early pre-season purchase of a season's pass can be a LOT cheaper than a several-day lift ticket. You can buy it online, provide an electronic photo for the pass, and pick it up from the base area when you get there (don't do what I did, which was to wait in line at the season's pass desk - this moves slowly because people are purcahsing them and getting their pictures taken: you can jump the queue if you're just picking up a pre-paid pass)

Park City is also a good choice, because of the very different local ski hills (and the even more different nearby ones) - although I haven't been keeping up with all the legal shenanigans going on over the ownership of the Park City mountain. - Be aware that all the resorts are separately owned, and I don't think that they do a multi-area pass (although you could pick up a slightly discounted pass that gave you a couple of days at Deer Valley (which is NOT all flat: there's actually some pretty good terrain there, which hardly gets skied by the billionaire property owners!) and the Canyons from the ski shop at the airport, when I went: note that this was ten years ago, and things might have changed a bit). PC is a good bit lower than Colorado, and so altitude isn't so much of a problem.

Banff I like a lot. It can be wickedly cold in January, though. I've been a couple of times early in January, but more often in March (much more comfortable). I know that some people don't like the unavoidable bus transits between Banff and the three ski areas, but it's actually quite a spectacular drive between Banff and Lake Louise (the longest journey) and the other trips are short enough not to bother me.
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Right,

Lechbob, abc, unfortunately the only resort in the USA that the wife has been to is Steamboat Springs so she is keen to try something else.

Acacia, we have fixed our dates to 26/27th December to 6/7th Jan - can't move them around because we are very limited with the amount of holiday we can use.

So after a few days of clandestine ski research at work...

LL/Banff - too cold
Whistler - been before and possibly early in season?
Big White/Silver Star - too close to family!

Mammoth - Like the look of the resort and it sounds ace. However too early in season? Plus it seems cheap.

Deer Valley - Sounds ideal. Apart from the price. And there is no direct flight from London to SLC.
Canyons/Park City - See above but cheaper.

Breckenridge - would be great but likely to be very busy and not cope with crowds?
Steamboat - Would be ideal if wife hadn't been before
Beaver Creek - Seems like a good bet - quieter than others and swankyish
Snowmass - Another favourite, connecting flight might be needed though.

So to me the favourites are Snowmass, Beaver Creek, Park City and Mammoth. Which is likely to have best chance of decent coverage?
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If you can do Aspen or Beaver Creek within budget - go for it. I think BC & Aspen are similar for snow. It could be a different story in Utah. I guess you have to book flight & accommodation in advance for NY. It is a lottery, feast or famine snow-wise early season at Mammoth.
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Lechbob wrote:
If you can do Aspen or Beaver Creek within budget - go for it.

+1

Don't know about Mammoth but DV don't always have the best snow coverage that early in the season.

A strong favor for Beaver Creek is the lift pass is shared with Vail and linked by ski bus. So you actually have two (big) mountains for the price of 1. BC will be quieter during the period between Christmas and New Year. But after New Year, you can go explore the mostly empty piste of Vail.
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philwig wrote:
many Americans choose to take their holiday at home rather than travel,

That's totally untrue. Or rather, more Americans travel during that holiday than any other holidays.

Quote:
So typically Xmas day at Whistler is a quiet day. Peak season is much later

It maybe Americans don't travel to Canada during Christmas holiday.

For the American market, the week between Christmas and New year is THE BUSIEST of just about any mountain. Though Christmas day (Dec 26) and New Year's day itself aren't bad at all.
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abc wrote:
philwig wrote:
many Americans choose to take their holiday at home rather than travel,

That's totally untrue. Or rather, more Americans travel during that holiday than any other holidays.

Quote:
So typically Xmas day at Whistler is a quiet day. Peak season is much later

It maybe Americans don't travel to Canada during Christmas holiday.

For the American market, the week between Christmas and New year is THE BUSIEST of just about any mountain. Though Christmas day (Dec 26) and New Year's day itself aren't bad at all.


Americans? Travel.........?! :snigger: </EuropeanSterotype>
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Levi215 wrote:
Americans? Travel.........?! :snigger: </EuropeanSterotype>

Americans do travel, probably MORE than Europeans. Just that most of them don't travel OUTSIDE of their country.

(I know you try to be funny, but you got the wrong sterotype)
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
abc, no doubt, the act of moving you do more
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From what I've heard Park City won't be opening this winter.
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francium., Interesting as they are advertising 2014 passes and opening dates
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PaulC1984 wrote:
francium., Interesting as they are advertising 2014 passes and opening dates


Nobody knows yet what's going to happen, decisions extended until this ~Friday, but that can change. They have sold season passes but have stated they will refund if they don't open.

Hoping for the best and planning for the worst. This could have a massive impact on DV and Canyons in terms of skier numbers, and obviously on the Park city economy.

I wouldn't commit to going to Park City area until I knew the outcome of this.
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 Poster: A snowHead
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abc wrote:
That's totally untrue.


<shrug>I can only report what those "many Americans" tell me. And of course what the booking systems I run show. Depending on precisely what you're after, prices can be very good around that time for this reason.

I've personally walked into a random hotel in Whistler on Xmas eve and taken my pick of discounted rooms... if you want to travel peak season, that's not going to happen.

--
As far as travelling's concerned, I don't have the evidence, but I'd suspect that it depends very much on which Americans you're talking about. I would expect the top tier of most genuine frequent flyer systems to be Americans, for example.
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philwig wrote:
I've personally walked into a random hotel in Whistler on Xmas eve and taken my pick of discounted rooms... if you want to travel peak season, that's not going to happen.

It's true a lot of people fly out the day after Chrismas. But try getting a room at Vail the day after Christmas? Forgetaboutit!

I once ended up changing rooms EVERY SINGLE NIGHT because I didn't book far enough ahead for the week between Christmas and New Year, and the only way I could have a roof over my head near a ski resort was to change hotel one day, change room within the same hotel the next...

The room rate also confirms that. I skied that week this on 2014-15. The room rate shot up into the sky the day after Christmas. Fortunately I had some hotel points I cashed in, and I was booking that nearly 2 months in advance. Unfortuantely for me though, when my flight home got cancelled, I lost all my bargaining power for the 2 extra nights I had to stay over. (got my money back later through travel insurance)
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Dibergio, re Mammoth (and Lake Tahoe) - I had been planning to ski there first week of Jan this year since I was in San Fran for Christmas and New Year. There was no snow - well, not much. I think coverage is more of a risk than for some of the others.

(I went instead to Snowbird and Jackson Hole, which are probably not the right resorts for you. Snow wasn't amazing in Snowbird either, but amply sufficient for piste skiing).
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Ok so we are now trying to choose between Snowmass and Beaver Creek. Seems that Snowmass is slightly cheaper and might be less busy as it's further from Denver.

However Beaver Creek just seems a bit nicer.

Any thoughts?

In terms of accommodation we are thinking the Charter in BC or Laurelwood, Timberline or the Villas at Snownass - anyone had experience of these?

Cheers
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It is Aspen town that is unique & special. I personally would prefer to stay in the town. Ajax hill base is in town. Aspen Highlands, Buttermilk and Snowmass are a free bus ride away. Snowmass is the largest ski area but the base is same as every other purpose built U.S. ski real estate development. The apres with live music in the bar at the base was enjoyable, but there is so much more going on in town.
The charter at BC looks smart & elitist albeit at the lower price end for BC, you will get a fairly small hotel room for 10 nights over New Year for about £3000 with taxes. Are there just the 2 of you ? Most places hold 4 people which makes it more affordable pp for 4.
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Most North American hotel rooms have two double beds, which leads UK-based TOs to base their pricing on 4 people sharing one room, and then charge an "underoccupancy" tariff if you (like most normal people) like your own personal space. - However, if you don't use a TO, you can often get a better price by going direct to the accommodation provider.

Condos are often a better option than hotels.

- This might not apply at a super-high season period, though!
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Whatever you do, do not fly into the Aspen airport. The highest rate of cancelled flights of any airport in the US. I have been stranded for days there and also had flights into it cancelled. Absolutely, unequivocally fly into Denver and drive. Roads are wide, well plowed and maintained and you can rent a gargantuan American vehicle.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
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BTW both resorts are nice. BC definitely a little more upscale and a much better village at the base of the hill. I am not a big fan of the town of Aspen. Filled with a bunch of California type fakers. Even the men here have plastic surgery and that is not said in jest. Vail in my opinion is a little better village and more similar to a Euro ski village. The extent of pistes at Vail is more on par with a Euro resort as well. Aspen/highlands skiing is great but limited. BTW BC is a bit limited in its scope as well. Snowmass as a ski area is good, not great and I would not book a trip to ski primarily at Snowmass. If you plan to ski all Aspen areas than it should be fine.
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skiberg wrote:
Whatever you do, do not fly into the Aspen airport. The highest rate of cancelled flights of any airport in the US. I have been stranded for days there and also had flights into it cancelled. Absolutely, unequivocally fly into Denver and drive. Roads are wide, well plowed and maintained and you can rent a gargantuan American vehicle.

I would fly into Aspen it is so convenient, a few minutes to your accommodation. O.K. our last landing was a bit hairy at night & snowing... but was not as hairy as driving the I70 in a snow storm...I couldn't see the lane & edge markings, a lot of eyestrain after a transatlantic flight + so many reckless drivers, many finishing in the ditch. It's much further than from Denver than Vail.
skiberg wrote:
I am not a big fan of the town of Aspen. Filled with a bunch of California type fakers. Even the men here have plastic surgery and that is not said in jest.

Each to his own. What's wrong with a little cosmetic help Puzzled
Not all fakers, there were plenty of truly wealthy people with homes in Aspen and not all up themselves. In "our" street there was an Sheik's in his "palace", one house armour plated with slits for windows (didn't get invited in), one house has its own art gallery to which we were invited for a drink, I met some genuine folk. Young snowboarders gave up their seats for us on the bus and addressed us as sir Shocked The local 'What's On' weekly was a thick booklet.
skiberg wrote:
Vail in my opinion is a little better village and more similar to a Euro ski village. The extent of pistes at Vail is more on par with a Euro resort as well.
Maybe like MGM pseudo alpine developments. Aspen had developed organically from a mining town and has character. Vail is part like Milton Keynes and part Les Arcs 1950. The ski area is large, I love the back bowls with nice tree skiing good for red run skiers.
skiberg wrote:
Snowmass as a ski area is good, not great and I would not book a trip to ski primarily at Snowmass. If you plan to ski all Aspen areas than it should be fine.
Puzzled +1 but I get the feeling that skiing is not Dibergio's main priority but wants quality slope-side lodgings.
skiberg wrote:
BTW BC is a bit limited in its scope as well.
But you have Vail as well.


Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Tue 9-09-14 18:33; edited 1 time in total
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skiberg wrote:
Vail in my opinion is a little better village and more similar to a Euro ski village.

Why spend all that extra to go all the way across the pond, just to be somewhere similar to a Euro ski village? Puzzled

Quote:
Aspen/highlands skiing is great but limited.

"Limited"? Puzzled You're probably not finding all the best skiing at Aspen/Highland!

In any case, your comment is irrelevant. Read the OP, their ability level is better served at Snowmass and Butternut, not Aspen/Highland.
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