The 14/15 Dynafit binding stock deliveries aren't due in to the UK until October but I've just received a toe/heel assembly of the new Radical 2 ST, the new Radical 2 FT & the new Beast 14 to peruse.
I've already received a number of enquiries as to the mounting patterns for the new models & how they compare to the existing bindings so although I've only had time to fondle 'em for a few mins I can confirm the following mounting patterns for Dynafit bindings either in current circulation or new for 14/15 (exc race models) as follows:
Four toe patterns:
- original 5 hole toe (ie TLT Vertical/Comfort etc)
- Radical
- new Radical 2 & Beast 14
- Beast 16
Three heel patterns:
- original pattern (ie TLT Vertical/Comfort etc) & Radical
- new Radical 2
- Beast 14 & Beast 16
I'll post up some mounting hole location pics in the next few days but if anyone has any specific mounting compatability questions, or any other questions for that matter, just let me know. Or you can come & see 'em for yourself.
And I'll also be adding the Quiver Killer mounting screw specifications for the new models to the list in my online store in the next few days.
And for those that don't already know, the Radical 2 & the Beast 14/16's are DIN certified
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Mounting location pics shown below. Apologies for the poor quality.
Toe Key:
Green = Beast 16
Red = Radical 2 & Beast 14 (toe only)
Blue = Radical
Heel Key:
Green = Beast 16 & Beast 14 (heel only)
Red = Radical 2
Blue = Radical
The locations have all been plotted using my 304mm Mercury boots with the power insert installed so the BSL is actually 305mm. I used the factory jigs for the Beast 16 & Radical (with my boot installed as a double check) but I don't have the new Radical 2/Beast 14 jig yet so I used the actually bindings locked on to my boot. All locations put the boot line right on the BCL with the heels set bang in the centre of their fore/aft adjustment.
The fore/aft length adjustment on the Radical 2 heels is a very generous +/- 22-23mm compared to that of the Beast 16/14 heels at 12/13mm.
The generous heel adjustment on the Radical 2 heels makes it pretty easy to jiggle the heel locations & then bring the binding back using adjustment. The problem is definitely with the toe locations as you can see that the forward most holes on the original Radical clash with the forward most holes on the Radical. Ironically, the older 5 screw toe design (not shown in my pic) will give plenty of clearance so any Vertical/Comfort uses easily remount their skis with the Radical 2 without any issues.
If anyone has any specific questions then call/email/PM me.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Pic of the amount of toe rotation on the Radical 2. Eye balling it next to my Beast 16 toe I reckon the rotation is slightly less than on the Beast 16 but the heel of your boot will be well out of the heel binding by the time the rotation got this far around.
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Thu 28-08-14 21:58; edited 1 time in total
Beast 16 £650-£670 depending upon brake width (105mm/120mm/135mm @ £10 increments)
Beast 14 £550-£580 depending upon brake width (90mm/105mm/120mm/135mm @ £10 increments)
Radical 2 ST £400-£450 depending upon brake width (80mm/90mm/105mm/120mm/135mm @ £10 increments)
Radical 2 FT £480-£510 depending upon brake width (90mm/105mm/120mm/135mm @ £10 increments)
But deals can be done
Note that the brake levers are captive but they do 'cam-in' a lot so one brake width can cover a wide range of ski widths. For example, my 120mm brakes will fit on a 122/3mm underfoot ski with no tweaking but I still use them on an 88mm underfoot ski. For this reason I wouldn't recommend the 80mm & 90mm models as IMO they're not versatile enough.
And I've also now spec'd up the appropriate M5 machine screws for anyone wanting to mount them with Quiver Killer inserts.
Delta angles, measured using my Dynafit Mercury boot, are:
Radical 2 ST & FT = 7.5mm (compared to about 15/17mm on the old Radical) which most will find a real aid to downhill performance.
Beast 14 = 6mm (same as the Beast 16)
Edit 31.10.14 - see further post/pic below re Rad 2 delta angle.
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Fri 31-10-14 15:01; edited 2 times in total
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^ the graphics on those new whitedots are shiite
After all it is free
After all it is free
Dave of the Marmottes wrote:
^ the graphics on those new whitedots are shiite
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spyderjon wrote:
Delta angles, measured using my Dynafit Mercury boot, are:
Radical 2 ST & FT = 7.5mm (compared to about 15/17mm on the old Radical) which most will find a real aid to downhill performance.
The Radical 2 would avoid the need for QK's (although flat packing for flying is a nice-to-have), because in theory, I would expect to feel quite content with them under all skiing conditions and not feel the need for a chunkier binding for resort skiing.
How does the delta compare with Vertical FT12's ? Could I eliminate the toe shims ?
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moffatross wrote:
spyderjon wrote:
Delta angles, measured using my Dynafit Mercury boot, are:
Radical 2 ST & FT = 7.5mm (compared to about 15/17mm on the old Radical) which most will find a real aid to downhill performance.
The Radical 2 would avoid the need for QK's (although flat packing for flying is a nice-to-have), because in theory, I would expect to feel quite content with them under all skiing conditions and not feel the need for a chunkier binding for resort skiing.
How does the delta compare with Vertical FT12's ? Could I eliminate the toe shims ?
The delta on the Verticals is the same as the Radicals, give or take a nats, so yes the Radical 2's would avoid the need for shimming.
Apart from the bulk/weight issue when travelling, the biggest benefit of Quiver Killer inserts is that they allow you to share the same binding across multiple skis - it's just that that binding can now be a din compliant tech binding
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Hi spyderjon, can you give me an idea what the differences are between the Radical 2.0 and Beast heel pieces?
I can see that you switch between ski and tour mode differently, that's fine. And Radical 2.0 appears to have a flat tour mode while the Beast does not. Both have forward pressure in the heel piece now don't they?
So is there any real benefit or performance difference to one over the other, especially given the extra money for the Beast? Other than flat tour mode and weight I guess...
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Mon 1-09-14 15:27; edited 1 time in total
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
If I ever manage to sort out some boots the Radical 2 looks tempting.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Hey Jon - I see the beast 14 toe has changed, what's that all about?!
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Possibly to do with slight incompatibility with 'other' boots:
fixx, yep, the Rad 2 has a flat tour mode as well two additional heights v two heights but no flat mode on the Beast heels. Yes, both heels have forward pressure - well it's not really forward pressure par se but rearward travel/elasticity. The difference between the Rad 2 heel & the Beast heels is all about durability with the Beast obviously being the sturdier/heavier of the two - which is not saying that the Rad 2 heel is weak - just that the Beast is bomber! Unless you're heavy/aggressive/mother hucker then the Rad 2 with be fine for most, especially as there's two din options with the ST being 4-10 & the FT being 5-12. All the Rad 2, Beast 14 & Beast 16 are din compliant & that actually includes existing 13/14 Beast 16's for anyone who already has them.
Now what could be significant for some is the fact that the Rad 2 heels do NOT require the using of the power insert in the heel of the boot to activate the binding so if you have Black Diamond Factor boots that won't accept the power insert (see altis' link above) then you're still fine with the Rads.
Markymark29, . Sorry bud but you've got something twisted here. The Beast 16 toe hasn't change at all but Dynafit have introduced a new toe piece for the Beast 14 - well it's actually not new as they've just nicked the new pivoting toe binding off the Rad 2 ST/FT. A Beast 14/Rad 2 toe weighs 232g v 370g for a Beast 16 toe.
The Beast 14 & 16 heels are identical apart from the springing/din range - they both weigh 575g for a single heel (120mm brake) but the Beast 16 toe has additional lateral elasticity over the Beast 14 toe as per the pic below. Again this is not saying that the Rad 2 toe does not have elasticity (it does due to the springs that clamp it shut) as it's now din compliant which proves it has, it just that the Beast 16 has more which IMO would show it's worth on hardpack with more dampening etc. I've skied my Beast 16's on some rock 'ard stuff & it just feels like you're in a quality alpine binding!
Note that the above pic is of a pre-production toe that was subsequently changed but the feature detailed is in the current version.
Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Mon 1-09-14 17:15; edited 1 time in total
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
spyderjon, that's absolutely brilliant, thanks! Very clear and succinct.
Makes a lot of sense too - there's effectively a range of bindings with max DIN going 10, 12, 14, 16. Looking at it that way it's a very clever set up with the various heel and toe pieces changing across the levels to achieve that...
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Yep, it's a very good line up. Personally I can't quite see the point of the Beast 14 as to me it's a solution to a problem that doesn't exist as anyone who wants/needs the Beast style heel will probably want/need the Beast toe. However it's a very easy thing for Dynafit to offer as all they're doing is utilising parts they already have & it is less expensive so for anyone who's skiing on a low din then why not.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
spyderjon, Yeah, was getting my 14 and 16 mixed up! Loved my 16's and Mercury's last season, what you gonna get me spending money on this season mate? No doubt you'll find something!
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
clarky999, God loves a try-er eh?
After all it is free
After all it is free
Does the Radical 2 binding ski differently than it's predecessor? e.g. is the ride less harsh on hard pistes?
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Markymark29, yeah, but you know you want 'em
DB, The million € question... Guess we're gonna have to wait until more people get around to skiing them though!
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DB wrote:
Does the Radical 2 binding ski differently than it's predecessor? e.g. is the ride less harsh on hard pistes?
The rotary toe is primarily designed to give the consistent lateral releases required for din certification but I'm told by a pre-production tester that it does act as a shock absorber as the toe pins stay fully engaged in the boot as opposed to moving around in the toe sockets when the boot heel undergoes any lateral travel. After skiing the Beast for some time I can see how this will help but that is a different design which certainly matches a quality alpine binding.
I haven't had a go on the Rad 2's yet (will hopefully take 'em for a spin in the snowdome next week) but my guess is that they'll be a slightly 'softer' ride than traditional Dynafits but still a more direct ride than a quality alpine binding. A lot of the feel could be down to the boots used as softer touring boots have more 'give' in them than the latest stiffer freeride touring boots. And of course the width/stiffness/dampness of the skis used will make a difference.
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Thanks spyderjon
I know my touring bindings are only a couple of seasons old but I keep having this reaction to new ski touring gear.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Spyderjon,
You say the ramp of the Radical 2.0 is 7.5mm, but Dynafit's literature (see link) has the heights at 16mm (toe) and 29mm (heel) for a 13mm ramp. The old Radical had a 14mm ramp and I've really been hoping the new model is less so I don't have to shim. Are you sure it's actually 7.5mm?
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@dandurston, the Rad 2's pictured above are pre-production models but I've now got a full production toe/heel in my shop so I'll measure 'em later & get back to you.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@dandurston, Here's a pic of a production Rad 2 ST toe & heel which I've mounted on a flat Perspex demo board with my Mercury boot installed. Toe height from perspex/ski surface is 17.5mm & the heel height is 26.5mm = 9mm delta. Delta on the (old) Radical was 15-17mm depending upon the ski/boot combo. Note that as there's no industry standard regarding the location of the tech inserts in AT boots so any delta's I quote are only accurate when a Dynafit boot is used.
The heights of the pre-production & the production versions haven't changed so the mount I pictured above (on a pair of Mantra's) is actually correct at 7.5mm because the ski is 1.5mm thinner where the heels mounted compared to under the toe. Mounting on a different ski will give a slightly different delta.
Always take any marketing literature from any ski or binding manufacturer with a pinch of salt
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Sat 1-11-14 13:56; edited 1 time in total
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Thanks a lot. I appreciate the effort.
The reduced ramp sounds good. Let me know if you have any 2.0 FT's for sale. Hopefully it won't be January before I can find some.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
dandurston wrote:
Thanks a lot. I appreciate the effort.
The reduced ramp sounds good. Let me know if you have any 2.0 FT's for sale. Hopefully it won't be January before I can find some.
Yep, the reduced delta is excellent.
The Rad 2's aren't be shipping until Dec so hopefully they'll be here before Crimbo. Demand's going to be high and although Dynafit say they're going to be make 20K pairs for worldwide distribution they won't all be made/shipped at once so if you're skiing early next year you need to get in quickly. To this end I've already got a waiting list - there's no deposit/prepayment required (so you can back out anytime) but I'll be offering the bindings to those on my list first - just email me (no PM's please) with which model/brake width you require & I'll add you to my list.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
And Beast 14's are shipping today so I'll have them in mid next week
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
hi, I've got my skis quiver killered for 1st gen plum guides (which I think work on the same mounting pattern as the old Dynafit vertical st) would that interfere at all with the new radical 2.0 pattern?
Heel piece wise, the plums are nearly at their shortest extension (i.e. closest to the toe piece) fitted for my vulcan 27.5's and somewhere nearer the back for my tlt 5's in a 28.5, so whatever the BSL is on those would be what I needed them to fit.
please tell me they won't fit so I can buy new skis as well ....although on second thoughts that might involve a john wayne bobbit scenario
@smithaldo, that should work ok - see the mounting footprints above. If it's tight a slightly offset fore/aft mount would do it & there's sufficient adjustment in the heel for both of your boot lengths.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Beast 14's arrived today plus the new Beast 16/Beast 14/Rad 2 mounting jig which is well fancy:
Close-up of the toe locations of the Beast 16/Beast 14/Rad 2 to show how they compare:
Close-up of the heel locations of the Beast 16/Beast 14/Rad 2 to show how they compare:
"Radical 2 ST & FT = 7.5mm (compared to about 15/17mm on the old Radical) which most will find a real aid to downhill performance. "
I think I finally understand all this ramp/delta stuff, and the above comment appears wrong because it's comparing effective boot ramp (Radical 2) to the pin height difference for the original Radical.
The original Radical had a toe/heel pin difference of 14mm (35/49mm) while the Radical 2.0 has a pin height difference of 13mm (33/46mm). A typical boot has the heel fitting 4-5mm higher than the toe fitting, for an effective ramp of ~9-10mm in the original Radical and 8-9mm in the Radical 2.0. Only 1mm lower.
The G3 Ion is similar (~9mm) while the Fritschi Vipec (6mm) is lower but still more ramped than bindings like the Duke (3mm), Beast 16 (2mm) and Speed Superlite (0mm).
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@dandurston, sorry but you are incorrect. The delta/ramp angle is not the relative heights of the toe & heel pins, it's the relative heights of the underside of the lowest point of the boot sole at the toe & heel when measured from the underside of the ski. That's why Dynafit quote their ramp angle based upon one of their boots being installed & they state which model as the location of the tech inserts in the boot varies from model to model. Dynafit quote the Beast 16's delta as 6mm with a Vulcan boot installed. Now that assumes that the thickness of the ski is consistent/parallel but in reality the top sheet is crowned fore/aft on the ski as the thickness of the ski get thinner towards the tip & tail which can affect the relative heights of the toe & heel bindings, but not usually more than a 1mm either way. On my Ranger 186's there's no thickness change in the ski in the mounting area so my Beast 16's ramp angle measure exactly 6mm as published, not 2mm.
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@spyderjon, out of interest, do you know how much that ramp would then vary across common boot models? Cochise Pro Light, fr'instance? More or less than the Vulcan?
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Jon,
I think my post is consistent with what you are saying. The difference in pin height (13mm for the Radical 2.0) minus the difference in boot fitting height (ie. 5 mm) gives the boot sole ramp (i.e. 8mm) assuming a equal thickness ski.
Conversely your earlier post is not consistent with this, because you refer to the original Radical as having 15mm of ramp, but that spec is actually the pin height difference. Thus you conclude there is a big difference in ramp between the original Radical and the new 2.0 Radical, when the actual difference is 1mm.
Radical FT Pins: 35.4mm / 49.4 mm
Radical 2.0 FT Pins: 33.5mm / 46.5 mm
More importantly, we agree the Radical 2.0 has 7.5-9mm of boot sole ramp which is pretty far from neutral but less extreme than some other Dynafit offerings. With the Radical 2.0, the boot sits a bit lower to the ski, but at about the same angle.
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spyderjon wrote:
Beast 14's arrived today plus the new Beast 16/Beast 14/Rad 2 mounting jig which is well fancy:
Close-up of the toe locations of the Beast 16/Beast 14/Rad 2 to show how they compare:
Close-up of the heel locations of the Beast 16/Beast 14/Rad 2 to show how they compare:
Is there any hope that the Beast 14 could QK over a Pivot at 330 BSL by any chance?
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
. Sorry bud but you've got something twisted here. The Beast 16 toe hasn't change at all but Dynafit have introduced a new toe piece for the Beast 14 - well it's actually not new as they've just nicked the new pivoting toe binding off the Rad 2 ST/FT. A Beast 14/Rad 2 toe weighs 232g v 370g for a Beast 16 toe.
