 Poster: A snowHead
|
| SMALLZOOKEEPER wrote: |
| LUDITE! I guess it would be awful to find out after all these years of skiing indoors, that you were wrong. |
SMALLZOOKEEPER, take your head out of your arse and go find some powder. I'm getting tired of your barbed comments at anyone who skis on less than an 85mm ski, perhaps you're not capable of skiing a shorter, narrower, stiffer ski, or is it just that your shop doesn't sell them?
Or better yet, put your money where your mouth is, and come ski some real powder with me in January. I'll be at the indoor slope in Alta/Snowbird.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
Thanks guys, both of you. Yep, sorry FOXY, i do bait people and you rose to it. It seems Parlor has th measure of me, i just wan't to challenge perceptions and get you thinking outside the box a little. I've worked deep inside the heart of the ski industry for 11 yrs and have watched alot change and alot of people come and go. Since the explosion of the Japenease ski market in 1996 our industry has seen a change in personel, less skilled scientific enthusiasts and more creative marketting accountants. It is after all, an economy however lets save a little space for purity. You know, speed, mountain air, freedom and all that. I won't change i don't wan't you too that's the beauty of freedom of speech and all things stars stipes. Open your mind. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
No problem here altho' it did get a bit over the top. Back to the topic, the Poster - describing himself as a 17 week intermediate, which to me sounds like someone not entirely sure what standard they are, wanted a ski for on-piste with occasional forays off-piste on a forgiving ski.
Do we all stand by our recomendations? if so, job done..!!
Just to clarify, I think a 17 week skier should have advanced skills but there you go, I'm only repeating the description...
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
Heir, Heir. Apologies all round, Karma from Volkl wins the 'Accidentally as it turns out, best allround ski" for me.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
Okay, all you knowledgeable persons!. I quite fancy the Scott Aztec that easiski, mentions earlier in the thread. So, what length to ski them? BTW I'm a 55 week intermediate 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Can't say that the Aztec has anything special over say, a Karma or a Public Enemy. The Scratch too is proving popular, however personnally, i'm not a fan, nor a freestyler.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
easiski,
| Quote: |
The Scott Aztec is an advanced ski so around eyebrow height is what I would go for
|
Thanks, looks like I am too short to enjoy them, pah 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| easiski wrote: |
The Scott Aztec is an advanced ski so around eyebrow height is what I would go for. They're quite fat in the shovel so no need to go for length. You wouldn't be using them if you were freeriding all the time, but I found they were easy in deep snow (yes - deep, not necessarily powder) and carved well on piste. Hold on icy blacks pretty well and give you a really good "feel" of reward and punishment which the B2s don't. ps: on steep ice you do have to get a really good edge angle.
SMALLZOOKEEPER, parlor, I understand your reason for recommending fats, but anyone who wants to improve on piste would be well advised to stay away from specialist off piste skis! Not wishing to be rude, but did you actually read the question?????
JT, I stand by mine!!!  |
Any ski thats width finishes under and less than the boot width should work fine on piste. Yes the narrower the better in order to increase edge to edge speed, however these days the tendancy is longer carved turns reducing edge to edge frequency. It's not that i'm Pro-Wide skis, it's just there is nothing to fear skiing them on piste unless they are real fatties, by that i mean over 110mm in the waist. They will however make skiing off piste and the transission of technique quicker. We have people here in the shop each day that try say, a 88mm ski and realise how easy and how much fun it is, with none of the preconceaved drawbacks. I try to be impartial, i use my clients as guniea pigs and i listen to them. Squeek, squweek.
Don't be scared, try it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
snowbunny,
How can you be a 55 week intermediate...? You are playing with us..?
I have heard good things about the Scott skis but haven't tried them... I know Charlotte likes them so I will try them
if I can't get my top two.. Ditto the 8800..
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
I'm with Parlor on the future industry standard for all mountain skis but actually if people are going to spend their time largely on piste and want to stick to more traditional waist widths then so be it - realistically if you're only looking to get in a couple of weeks a year these type of skis may be the best option.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
JT,
| Quote: |
How can you be a 55 week intermediate...? You are playing with us..?
|
How long is a piece of string?. I really cannot define my standard of skiing any more. I do know that SMALLZOOKEEPER, would giggle to read that my current groomers are only 64 wide underfoot, nice and smooth though. And for rock hopping and off piste I use Bandit L, at 170. So I want some decent skis, and the Scott Aztec looked a possible, but I think at 165 they will be too long. I would never class my skiing as "good", but I get by .
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
I don't ski on-piste and think 80mm is enough... Where ever I go I know what I want and expect from a ski. If you have an open bowl of wind blown you might wish for that extra girth but get down that steep shute where you haven't quite got the nerve to straight line it and you need a ski you trust and can get round. Its about knowing your turns and big GS turns can be fun but not what you need.. Its horses for courses, I'll go anywhere on my choices and if you can say the same then no problem.
I'll try the 8800 and the Karma but I'll expect them to get round quick when I need to otherwise that ain't the ski for me..
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
I am also eyeing up the 4800 BTW. At least I can get the eye height length 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
snowbunny,
I can kind of understand this as I don't know how to describe my own standard. But you don't sound like an intermediate to me..
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
snowbunny, the other 60% was spent in his shop...
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
Ok, I walk into the hire shop I have skiied 17 weeks over 17 years have no intention of going beyond the piste. What ski do you rent to me?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowbunny,
Sound pretty advanced to me...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
boredsurfin, have you had many lessons in the last 5 years? What sort of slopes do you like to ski?
My initial guesses would be:
1. Rossi B2
2. Salomon Streetracer
3. Dynastar Contact 10
4. Nordica SUV 12.1 or maybe Hot Rod (not Nitrous or TF)
5. K2 Apache...
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
Wear The Fox Hat, Yep private lesson each year last years was trying to get carving properly!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
JT,
| Quote: |
snowbunny,
Sound pretty advanced to me...
|
I guess that we can all talk the skiing, like experts. I know that I do not ski fast all the time, but I love GS turns. I am scrappy through gates, I get caught late in the edge change. So there are areas where I am not as good as I could be, given age/fitness etc. Hence my own appraisal of my standard. I do believe that I need to look for an Advanced level ski,and, as I am 165 tall, there does not seem to be too much choice in the Freeride category, if eye height is the expectation for length.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
| boredsurfin wrote: |
| Wear The Fox Hat, Yep private lesson each year last years was trying to get carving properly! |
Drop the Streetracer and the SUV.
What weight are you?
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
SMALLZOOKEEPER, made me wet myself... I like those things, it's great how you can make them turn right round in a circle...
JT,
| Quote: |
| I don't ski on piste and I think 80mm is enough... |
typo? Sounds like you stick to the piste. In those circumstances you go on to describe as 'tight shutes' etc it doesn't really matter what ski you're on, if you can't stright line it you're going to be mainly making jump turns, so for me, everytime, I want something on my feet that will keep me floating. An believe me, I don't need it. I used to ski pow on skis half the width of my current quiver. I just like it, it's fun.
All Now back to the original post, 17 weeker (should be a reasonable intermediate skier) wants to have fun off piste but not sacrafice on piste. So I'll say again:
Bandit B3
Bandit B4
Volkl Karma
Line Prophet 80
Dynastar Big Trouble
It's not like I'm recommending fat skis. OK the B4 is getting fat but the others are all mid fat. They're designed to give you the freedom to play anywhere you like... I didn't say try Gotama, Prophet 100 (130  ), Seth Vicous and all the other skis that most of you haven't heard of (Prior, Iggys, DPs, Faction to name a few). I gave my advice and I'm sticking to it. I've been skiing for 24 years so I've seen a fair amount of progress in ski design, not as much as others granted, but Dave Burt wants to test some skis, if you don't test something different how can you know you don't like it? Because of the review in Ski & Board? 
Great thread. Thanks Dave. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
parlor,
Not a typo..
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
JT, From an intermediate (or not) perspective, I understand the trade off for sacrificing width underfoot to be less float in deep stuff/crud. Does a wide/tail tip counter this ?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
Starting to wish I'd never started this! Lot to catch up on here.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
snowbunny,
Up to a point...surface area is the key and wherever you get it, helps. If I were looking I would look for an ice ski with float which brings us around to the same old, same olds. I think your take on the Scotts are in the right direction. The 4800 is supposed to be the new Intuitiv 74 which was a good ski off-piste. The Nordica's are supposed to be good all round..!!
From what you have skied I would be looking for a step up from the B2 although I don't know how the new ones shape up...
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| parlor wrote: |
Dave Burt,  OK but if you're not sure what the widest ski you've tried is it can't have been anything special. What are you scared of? Do you really think the skis I mentioned ^ fat? How did you find the internet? People have only been using it for a few years Do you have a mobile phone?
Why do I care? Less people *trying* to ski off piste.
A fat ski is 90+mm, my everyday ski is 96mm, I've just bought 130mm and expect to ride them in bumps and on hardpack, even though I don't need to.
Don't be shy and don't knock it till you've tried it. I whole point of a ski test is to work out what's for you. How are you gonna know until you try it?
Why not take out at least one mid fat. I don't think you'll be able to tell the difference between a few of the skis your going to test anyway so ski something that will make a difference to where and how you ski.
Or ski the same boring skis as everyone else because everyone else liked them... |
I take your point to an extent, but I'm not sure your mobile phone analogy holds up. Yep, I do have a mobile, but I have a mobile to make phone calls. My mobile can't take pictures, shoot video, or downlaod the latest crazy frog single, which suits me just fine as if it could I wouldn't have a clue how to work it, and no doubt it would make making phone calls unneccsesarily complicated too.
I just don't think I would have a clue how to use a fat ski. For the last few years I've been skiing intermediate piste skis which just sink in the powder (Atomic C9s - to give you something to smirk at I've just measured them at 64mm), and it wasn't so long ago that I switched from straights.
Just as I will never have any desire or need to download music to my mobile, I will never have any desire or need to enter a terrain park - so what would be the point of getting twin tips? I spend most of time happily on the piste, but I'm looking for a ski that will let me explore off piste a little more confidently than my Atomics. Horses for courses.
However, as I've potentially got a week of testing I promise that if I have time I will try something fat (even though it could be taken as the first sign of a mid-life crisis!).
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| easiski wrote: |
Dave Burt, head Monsters as discussed, but if you can find them Scott Aztec (the only truly all-round ski I've ever skied) and the Scott P3 which is a bit more piste orientated. No guarantee that you'll find a shop which stocks Scotts though. The K2 Public Enemy (mentioned above) is very popular for all round, but not a top noch off piste ski.
I would consider Rossi B4's PHAT BTW. |
Thanks Charlotte - I'll look out for the Scotts. Don't think I'm quite cool enough for the K2s though!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| JT wrote: |
Just to clarify, I think a 17 week skier should have advanced skills but there you go, I'm only repeating the description... |
Why? OK, so I'm obviously not as good as you - apologies if I don't come up to your expectations. Not that I feel that I need to make excuses, but I'm a recreational skier. I started as an adult. I now ski 2 weeks a year, maybe 3 if I'm lucky. If I carry on skiing for the next 30 years, although I'm sure I'll keep improving, I don't think I could ever become an advanced skier. As long as I'm enjoying my skiing I can live with that.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| JT wrote: |
Back to the topic, the Poster - describing himself as a 17 week intermediate [...] wanted a ski for on-piste with occasional forays off-piste on a forgiving ski.
Do we all stand by our recomendations? if so, job done..!!
|
Spot on!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| JT wrote: |
| Back to the topic, the Poster - describing himself as a 17 week intermediate, which to me sounds like someone not entirely sure what standard they are ... |
I'm an intermediate! Upper intermediate on-piste, lower intermediate off-piste!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Wear The Fox Hat wrote: |
| boredsurfin wrote: |
| Wear The Fox Hat, Yep private lesson each year last years was trying to get carving properly! |
Drop the Streetracer and the SUV.
What weight are you? |
11.5 stone
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| easiski wrote: |
| ... anyone who wants to improve on piste would be well advised to stay away from specialist off piste skis! |
That's what I was thinking too. Sorry parlor!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
Dave Burt,
You can take it that way but I said advanced skills not nessecarily advanced skier. It all starts to get a bit foggy the more you ski and if I saw you ski I'd know better one way or another, I think.
Thats the problem with a forum, we could all be a pile of jokers.. and unless you ski with someone you don't really know..
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
