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Les Arcs - Run difficulty?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Just looking for some experience of the blacks around Les Arcs, and how 'black' they are? We're a mixed ability group most ok on blacks, and 'side of piste' just wondered what the top ones off Aigulle Rouge were like, also anyone any idea what the orange diamonds are on the map? http://www.piste-maps.co.uk/Piste-Maps/France/LesArcs-PisteMap-2013.jpg as an example?

Thanks in advance.
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The Aiguille Rouge black off the top of the glacier is not very challenging, more of a hard red. I would say the same of the blacks of the Peisey-Vallandry side. Some of the Les Arcs blacks can be quite tricky. The orange diamonds are runs that left 'natur' i.e. not pisted. So depending on conditions they can be ok or very challenging. But always more difficult than the pisted blacks.
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Gämsbock, agree. The pisted blacks are just that. The unpisted can be great. For a typical British mixed ability group a trip up and down the Aguille Rouge (or Snooze as a friend calls it) is a perfectly reasonable proposition wit the bonus of a very large descent al the way to Vilaroger. The good bit about the top of the AR is the that it is very accessible.




These two have been up there quite a bit- this is from 2013 when they were 8 and 11.

The top offers the best snow for everyone, a quite wide open piste for the intermediate intermediates and a bit of soft stuff. (but not that much of either really).

Genepi is quite hard in most conditions and the lines near the flying kilometre can be epic.
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By and large I would say blacks in les Arcs are about as genuine as you will find anywhere. As mentioned above Aiguille Rouge is pisted and more of a hard red. Ecureils on Vallandry side less steep than others but I reckon one of most fun. I think all the rest are left unpisted and depending on conditions some can be very hard.

I don't know why the reds clair blanc and malgovert are not classified as blacks. Both are quite difficult though short.
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Great info thanks guys, gonna try and get out there in the gap in the hols (end of March)
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It's only the entrance to 'clair blanc' that is 'black'....
malgovert can be blue or black, depending on which path you take.
Bosses get a lot of people unstuck when it becomes icy, there is one steep part, I've seen a few take their skis off!
Can't remember the name but the bumpy red by the Transarc catches a lot out, beware of that one.
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Yes, Les Arcs pistes have a good range of difficulty, including some good tough blacks.

There is also some very good off piste (some of it extreme - especially off the back of the Aiguille Rouge) but you really needs a guide - there is only a limited amount between the runs.

(Les Arcs 1850 at the top)
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That is a superb pic, tough decent? doesn't look super steep?
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^^ There is plenty off-piste within the resort, you need to find it!
Loads down to Villaroger, Loads off the top of Varet (2000)... Grand Col... etc etc there's loads.... limited? No.
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Levi215, I remember the top half as 40º with bits a bit more and then easing up as it opens up. However it was a long time ago. Steep but not super steep I'd say, but I don't know your skiing. Not as severe as most of the stuff directly off the back of the Aiguille Rouge near the summit, much of which is too steep for me (and I think you need a guide anyway because it is through a National Park?). Called the Point du Four couloir, you get to it by climbing up from the other side of the ridge (looking at a piste map it is from Clocheret chair) and walking along the right side of the ridge ahead. There are two couloirs, rather similar difficulty I'm told, but I've only done one. However I'd suggest you really need a guide for those unless you are super confident on your own with a 1:25,000 map.

allanm, oh OK, yes, but a lot of it you need to know how to get to it (like the one above) and how is your avalanche danger knowledge? I really meant there isn't much obvious stuff close to the pistes, except very easy stuff. At least, that is my memory, but I haven't skied there except for the odd day or so from Ste Foy for many years since I became a regular off piste person. Perhaps I would change my mind now. (Yes, I remember doing stuff by the Grande Coll front side long ago - back side needs a guide. And OK, yes, now I think about it some good bits between the black runs on the front side of Aiguille Rouge - though I seem to remember that skis out fairly quickly?).
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snowball, Must correct your picture caption. That is Arc 1950 in the top of the picture and as you say this is the couloir at the end of the ridge above Comborciere valley out of sight on the left of the picture.

Levi215, Unless you know where you are going, not just using a map I would strongly recommend not trying any of these couliors without someone that knows exactly where they are going. It is very easy to go down the wrong entrance and end up on the cliff face. The official grading for this couloir is nearer 45 degrees at the start with cliffs all around it so take care. If you are up for skiing this type of stuff send me a PM if you do come to Les Arcs and we can go hunt some good powder.

I also agree with Allanm, there is loads of good off piste all around Les Arcs without needing to do this really scary stuff. Most people coming here of all abilities can find plenty of off piste to keep them happy for a whole week. The piste natures are also a really good way to learn how to ski off piste without needing all the safety kit. There are now 10 piste natures in Les Arcs of varying levels of difficulty. I still love Malgovert with all the little jumps and bumps and so do the kids.

https://www.facebook.com/LesArcsWinter
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Levi215, There are blacks and there are blacks, where have you skied before? The blacks in Les Arcs are about as genuine as anywhere - largely unpisted, usually long and committing. Most are marked as "Natur" which means that they are never pisted and some such as comborciere are to all intents and purposes natur. IMHO there are 5 fairly easy blacks to get you started:
Aigulle rouge, which seems to me to follow the same path as the red piste;
Refuge, which can have a tricky section almost at the end;
Ecureuils, not realy sure why this is a black since the only real black section is bypassed
Bosses, the route of an old drag lift, oddly this one is sometimes pisted so doesn't always have bumps on it, but it does have a really steep short section of genuine black
Roulles, a nice alternative to source down to 1600, it used to be red but I suppose it is black because you are likely to encounter shrubbery on the way down.

The rest are about as testing as any black pistes anywhere
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Ecureuils & Bosses can be rather challenging when 'bumpy' or icy. They both have a fairly steep section (Ecureuils at the top, Bosses 1/2 way down). I've seen many people caught out on Bosses. and many turn back from the top of Ecureuils. They are 'easier' runs, but conditions can change that drastically.
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allanm, Ecureuils is one of those very rare pistes that can get icy. The flat section just after the top of the combe drag often has some genuine ice. Fortunately you do not have to turn or slow down on it.
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peanuthead wrote:
By and large I would say blacks in les Arcs are about as genuine as you will find anywhere. As mentioned above Aiguille Rouge is pisted and more of a hard red. Ecureils on Vallandry side less steep than others but I reckon one of most fun. I think all the rest are left unpisted and depending on conditions some can be very hard.

I don't know why the reds clair blanc and malgovert are not classified as blacks. Both are quite difficult though short.


I would second that about Malgovert. Skied it once in pretty marginal conditions (lots of tree roots showing as I recall) and felt it was about the most difficult run I had ever done (at that time)!
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 Poster: A snowHead
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Thanks guys, snowcrazy i'm certainly not good enough to even attempt those couliors just looked cool Smile

In terms of my Skiing, very limited (though being rectified) unfortunately, Skied the map in Zell Am See / Kaprun, and done 3 trips to a friends place in Bulgaria, gone down the lifts there on the last trip which although tight weren't steep at all. I get the impression French blacks are more black than Austria?
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Levi215, From my recollection of Bulgaria, where I skied Borovets (which I liked) and Bansko (which I didn't) the few blacks there would correspond to the easier reds in Les Arcs. Sadly I have never skied in Kaprun so cannot comment on the difficulty of blacks there
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johnE, I've not been to Borovets only Bansko (mate has places there) enjoy it sometimes less so others depending on the conditions, i find certain bits of Tomba (the WC piste) tough but more when it's not been bashed. All tends to get very icey though.


http://youtube.com/v/xDxbNDhrtPI 2/3 Red 1/3 black They actually don't ski the bit that catches me out here but loop around it, it's quite a narrow natural half pipe bit
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Levi215 wrote:
. I get the impression French blacks are more black than Austria?

More a function of particular resorts than countries. Everywhere wants to be seen to have a full range of pistes so steep resorts have steep blacks and reds etc and easy resorts have easy blacks and reds (to oversimplify). However when there are groups of resorts there is a bit of influence between them. Val d'Isere doesn't have a really easy run home so has to have a a blue run home (at La Daille) which has a section which would be black in many resorts.
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Quote:

Val d'Isere doesn't have a really easy run home so has to have a a blue run home (at La Daille) which has a section which would be black in many resorts.


But then the green run, Vert, IIRC, is even harder.
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snowball wrote:
Levi215 wrote:
. I get the impression French blacks are more black than Austria?

More a function of particular resorts than countries. Everywhere wants to be seen to have a full range of pistes so steep resorts have steep blacks and reds etc and easy resorts have easy blacks and reds (to oversimplify). However when there are groups of resorts there is a bit of influence between them. Val d'Isere doesn't have a really easy run home so has to have a a blue run home (at La Daille) which has a section which would be black in many resorts.


And in the same way and bringing it back to Les Arcs the Peisey-Vallandry sector - for it markets itself as a different resort to 'les arcs proper' (local politics) has merely 2 blacks, bosses and ecuereils and for all allanm's about conditions really don't rate as red or black compared to other reds/blacks in the rest of the domain. I'm sure people have straight-lined bosses in conditions other than soft snow.
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^^ yer havin' a laugh!
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There are a couple from Grand Col chair (I forget the run names) which are redish black down the easiest lines but offer a lot of options for corner cutting and side piste routes. It is an old slow chair but usually fairly quiet. Don't know about harder than Austria. Austria tends to have insanely steep but very smooth blacks, Les ARCs are less steep but allowed to grow immense moguls. The "natur" ones can be a good challenge, but be prepared for "pisted" runs to be left to their own devices for days on end.

have fun
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Col the Yeti, The ones you are thinking of are the red Grand Col and the Black Refuge. They are both easy for their grade with the exception of a small section about 3/4 the way down which can get amazingly smooth and have bodies everywhere.
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The first time I skied Bosses there were no moguls so belted down, and skied fresh air over the mid section drop off, a real unexpected stomach in mouth moment! Probably only 20-30m off snow but totally unprepared for it and then the gully that follows. I've a;ways treated it with respect since.
With respect to the other runs Aguille Rouge is fine once started over the top few turns. My "OMG there is a patch of ice I can see 50m over there" other half bottled at the top, but all other brave but not competent group members got down it fine. Comborciere needs respect too.
For a mixed group its just aboutthe perfect resort though.
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Martin Nicholas wrote:
The first time I skied Bosses there were no moguls so belted down, and skied fresh air over the mid section drop off, a real unexpected stomach in mouth moment!


Ha ha, I did exactly the same! First day skiing of my first working season in Les Arcs and I was out for the day with 14 new friends and colleagues, everyone trying to impress with their skiing ability. I was second one over rattling along at a proper old lick and was totally unprepared for the extent of the drop!

Like you say, I gave it a lot more respect in future attempts. Nice little run though.
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Levi215 wrote:
I get the impression French blacks are more black than Austria?


Certainly Les Arcs is tougher than the places you've been - give Aguille Rouge a go and take it from there is my advice Smile Do avoid taking a natur piste (or comborciere) at first, even the red ones are tricky, every time I go I find a new way to nearly come a cropper on them Toofy Grin The vallandry side is most forgiving ime, so maybe head that way to start off.

It's my favourite resort though, fantastic place, I'm sure you'll have boatloads of fun!

aj xx
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Martin Nicholas, Laughing Laughing We'd a friend, Richard, videoing our first view of Bosses ( crikey that was a while ago... ) and he stopped just above that lip & gully, encouraging us to speed past the camera...

B'stard.

Been known to us as "Dick's cleft of pleasure" ever since.
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a.j. wrote:
Levi215 wrote:
I get the impression French blacks are more black than Austria?


Certainly Les Arcs is tougher than the places you've been - give Aguille Rouge a go and take it from there is my advice Smile Do avoid taking a natur piste (or comborciere) at first, even the red ones are tricky, every time I go I find a new way to nearly come a cropper on them Toofy Grin The vallandry side is most forgiving ime, so maybe head that way to start off.

It's my favourite resort though, fantastic place, I'm sure you'll have boatloads of fun!

aj xx


Great advice thanks aj
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