What Happens to Expats Brits if the UK leaves the EU.

A snowHead

Yellow Pyranha, to expand in case of confusion the citizens of Northern Ireland don't automatically 'get both' nationalities, they are automatically British (*if born before 1983, or if later, if born to at least one British parent) but as a consequence of the Good Friday Agreement will be guaranteed Irish nationality too if they request it (and renounce British if they wish). This is what I meant by having the right to choose one or both, and of course this is something both countries agreed. The effective change in Irish territory is an interesting one, but perhaps best ignored here.

Given the present lack of Scottish terrorism or other bargaining chips, I'm not sure why the UK government would want to negotiate something similar again, although in the Scottish context they would be playing the part of Ireland offering citizenship to foreigners (as Lloyd George told the Irish in 1921, 'you're either British subjects or foreigners; you can't be both so which is it?').

However, as foreign births, your Irish relatives (if under 60 or so) would have to apply for British citizenship listing their parents or grandparents; citizenship isn't automatic, and of course many Northern Irish people also have a claim to Irish citizenship through their ancestors who were 'Irish' through living in the North before partition. An application this way would be treated no differently though to someone born in Spain to British parents.

Belfast born, and with grandparents also born there but 'on the island of Ireland' before 1921, I qualified twice (as many Northern Irish folk would) so applied and received Irish citizenship about fifteen years ago. Somewhat conversely, my parents then applied afterwards.

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

dogwatch, not political at all, quite the opposite really!
There are apparently some advantages around visas but nothing I've tried. As a second EU nationality it's clearly not as dramatic a difference as say Australian citizenship.

For me, I simply had a bad experience after having a passport stolen; it really messed up forthcoming trips as you can imagine, so having a spare seemed useful.

Now that I live in France it's come into its own though. The French seem to turn their noses up at 'the English' but they all have at least one cousin who has visited Ireland and loves it... True story, I've experienced it almost daily from hospitals to just with random clients at work.

You need to Login to know who's really who.

albinomountainbadger, I don't understand why you had to 'apply' for Irish citizenship. I simply applied for a passport (I'm UK born) and received it; all I had to do was provide evidence of identity and entitlement to citizenship/nationality/passport, much as I had done previously for a British passport. The 'on the island' qualification for Irish citizenship applies to all births prior to 2005, not 1921, according to gov.ie so as you were NI born, you should not have needed any further evidence than a birth certificate.

Lloyd George was clearly wrong if he said that, since British law doesn't prohibit dual nationality, so loads of people are British and foreign at the same time (eg an ex girlfriend born in Oz while her parents were there as UK expats has both nationalities).

Does this need to 'apply' for citizenship mean that I was neither a British citizen (as I was born of foreign parents), nor an Irish citizen (as I was born outside Ireland) until I applied and was granted each citizenship? Which I don't recall ever doing, unless you consider applying for a passport to be applying for citizenship. What if I had never 'applied'?

Each country's nationality law is surely their own affair rather than a matter of negotiation with other nations, and (to get a nearer the question) I don't think that Scotland leaving the UK would be any reason for the UK to change its nationality laws. In the Irish case, I would suggest that the threat of terrorism would have been a strong argument for passing a law preventing Irish people from holding British passports since that would have allowed the imposition of restrictions on movement across the border, but the 'grandfather' rule remains in place (for everyone, not just the Irish).

So, I don't think that British citizens currently outside the UK, but who will qualify for Scottish citizenship (should we vote "Yes") will be affected - they will still be British citizens. Unless the UK government chooses to spend parliament's time debating a bill to strip those who accept Scottish nationality of their British nationality - how would they police that, and with all those Scots in England (including Scots as MPs in English constituencies) could it be passed anyway?

dogwatch, my having an Irish passport is for practical reasons - it is sometimes, depending on exchange rates, cheaper than a British one, and in the old days I could go to the embassy in London and my passport was processed within a week. It also annoys one of my brothers-in-law, and that's worthwhile.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Yes in this context I mix applying for a passport in with applying for citizenship, I appreciate that they aren't the same thing but as you point out only proof of entitlement to citizenship is required for the forms, one doesn't actually need to undergo a naturalisation process and the ceremony with shiny certificates and flags.

Whatever you're making reference to in 2005 must be a further good Friday Agreement thing because I remember very clearly the 1921 stipulation when I did my own, my gran having been born a year or too beforehand. I don't have the forms to hand, but if they've changed since it's irrelevant anyway.

We may be entitled to many citizenships as a result of birth or marriage, but I don't think you 'have' them until you have applied for a passport or such as proof. If something went awry in a foreign land and you phoned the Irish consulate saying your grandad is from Dublin so they have to help you, I doubt they'd move with the same sense of urgency as if you'd flown in with an Irish passport.

You'll need to Register first of course.

Have a red of this book

Au Revoir, Europe: What If Britain Left The EU

by

David Charter

Investors will lose

http://www.fool.co.uk/investing/2014/06/04/investors-will-lose-out-if-the-uk-leaves-the-eu/

Wreck the City of London

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/04/27/uk-britain-europe-idUKBREA3Q00A20140427

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

I think this is the first thread I have read from start to finish here on SH, and it's got nothing to do with skiing at all.

After all it is free

also make sure you all read

'what will happen if the u.k leaves the ERM' - by a.n idiot/economist

'what will happen when we enter Y2K' - by a. n idiot/alarmist

'what will happen if Britain doesn't sign up to the euro' - a.n.other idiot/economist

'er..those 3mln jobs i predicted the u.k will lose in 2003, i've since retracted but people still quote it' - a.berk

'Follow the money. More flows out of the U.K to the EU than flows in. That's all you need to know'

Calm down everyone.