 Poster: A snowHead
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Evening all,
I've got some basics, and have been known to wax and do the edges occasionally on my skis, however need to be prepared to do a bit more now as I'm using XScape a bit more regularly.
So I have plastic and metal scraper, brush and cork for finishing off as well as old iron I use to apply wax. I also have wax remover and PTEX repair strips.
I have a really old Toko edge file, which has a really short file in it, so I'm looking to get something decent and quick to use in this area.
I also need a stand of some sort. Is a Black and Decker workbench a good thing to use?
I guess my "alpine" wax ain't going to be the best for indoor snow, any recommended wax?
Anything else I need and recomended cheap places to get stuff from much appreciated!
regards,
Greg
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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gregh, I'll have a chat with you next Mon at the Lions but in answer to your questions:
Most of the Lions folk are using Datawax Polar X wax which is a v.low temp wax (-16 to -24C I think) as it's hardness will protect the bases against the mega abrasive Xscape snow. You can get it from Ed Pirie on 01224 741856. As it dries really hard you need to scrape it off while it's still slightly warm.
Hope you're not using the wax remover on your bases as it dries them out. Use a soft wax instead to perform a hot scrape to clean your bases. Only use wax remover to clean an area prior to a base repair & for cleaning your scrapers & bench.
For good value tuning gear check out http://www.kunzmann-skitools.de Kunzmann gear can be sourced through Ronnie at Kandie Imports on 01324 861 296.
A B&D workmate isn't really stable enough as it's not wide enough. rob@rar.org.ukrecently posted details of a great inexpensive portable bench from Ski Bartlett.
Bear in mind that with tools you get what you pay for. I'd recommend at least alloy (as opposed to plastic) base & side angle file guides for consistency. Once your angles have been set you'll just need a diamond stone (mostly on the side angle) to keep them sharp.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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gregh, The Kunzmann 3121 ergo alu side guides are good but for speed/ease of use remove the screw clamp & use a seperate spring clamp. You specify which angle you want & you'll get change from £20.
The Kunzmann base bevel guides are also good & although they're plastic they're pretty tough & don't appear to flex. Again there's a choice of angles. Unfortunately you've then got a big price hike from a few quid up to the Beast, SVST or Toko WC base guides which are all between £40-£50.
I recommended Kunzmann to marc gledhill who I think has bought some of the above gear so I suggest you ask him how he's found it.
BTW, a lot of other manufacturers tuning gear is actually made by Kunzmann & just badged differently.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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rob@rar.org.uk, just a minor comment - I'd strongly recommend not having a middle strap on your skis, as it will be flattening them out of their natural cambered shape.
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gregh, I ended up buying all the kit spyderjon recommended to me. It may have cost me £100+ but I've serviced my Xscape skis every week since and gave my wife's skis and my B2's a good servicing too! 
The kuntzman kit is good quality IMO.
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This was spyderjon's suggestion;
"Check-out http://www.kunzmann-skitools.de
If you want pretty good kit at a fair price here's what you'll need for a full edge tune & regular tune ups after your race sessions on the white 'sand' at Castleford:
3121 Aluminium side angle guide c/w clamp £ 17.50
3224 Diamond stone, coarse/black £ 23.55*
3226 Diamond stone, medium/blue £ 23.55
3263 Diamond stone, fine/red £ 18.90
3238 World cup std file without tang £ 8.00*
3246 Gummi stone £ 7.00
3333 Brake lock rubbers c/w finger pull £ 2.50
You can get the above from Ronnie at Kandie Products on 01324 861 296. Above prices inc VAT & postage but you could try a haggle for a bit of extra discount, maybe up to 15%.
*If you don't want to alter your existing angles then don't get the file & the coarse diamond stone.
In addition you'll need a base angle guide. Kunzmann do a plastic one, ref. 3162 for £3.50 but I haven't seen/tried it. The best plastic one is probably the Base Beast from http://www.therace-place.com as it has a stainless steel elevation bar. It'll be about £20 inc shipping etc.
Not liking plastic as it tends to flex too easily, I went for a metal base guide. This choice limits you to the 'quality' end of the market and a Toko World Cup Base Bevel Guide at about £40 inc shipping from http://www.artech.com or a SVST Final Cut from http://www.race-werks.com at about £50. I've a spare 1 degree SVST Final Cut which you can have for £35 if you're interested. It's a cracking piece of kit, better engineered than the Toko & would be great for your skis. Unfortunately it doesn't suit the concave bases on my b5's so I needed a guide that covers the full width of the base so I bought the Toko.
You'll also need a vice set. "
That's all there is to it 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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gregh, Have a look at the Data wax website...www.datawax.com. They have kits of all the stuff you need at reasonable cost.
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cheers all, will look into it during some spare time!
Do you really re-do your edges after eveyr 2 hours session at XScape, Marc?
regards,
Greg
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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gregh, yep. Only a quick swipe with a couple of stones though.
I bought 'em, I'll use 'em.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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gregh, And if budget isn't an issue I can send you a list of the stuff you really need 
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| gregh wrote: |
| Do you really re-do your edges after eveyr 2 hours session at XScape, Marc? |
Yep, good excuse for an hour away from the missus & kids.
You do of course require a beer fridge alongside your tuning bench. An edge tune takes a bottle of Bud while a full tune with take at least a 500ml Stella & packet of white Malteezers 
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You know it makes sense.
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| Wear The Fox Hat wrote: |
| rob@rar.org.uk, just a minor comment - I'd strongly recommend not having a middle strap on your skis, as it will be flattening them out of their natural cambered shape. |
Thanks for that. I don't normally keep them strapped up at all, but I was about to pack the B5s into a ski bag for my flight to Geneva when I took those photos.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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My skis in summer storage have a piece of packing in the middle plus straps near the ends to try and keep the camber at its neutral position. Do not know whether it is really worthwhile, but it made me feel that I had done the right thing.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I roll one of those cheap foam kipmats around my skis in transit - great packaging.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Scarpa wrote: |
| I roll one of those cheap foam kipmats around my skis in transit - great packaging. |
On a similar theme, I use a lengths of the grey foam pipe insulation (from B&Q/Wicks etc) around my poles during transit. It's comes pre-slit along it's length - just cut to the length required & tape on an off-cut below the basket to preotect the tip.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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spyderjon, do most of the Lions have skis just for use at the Castle, or do they need to work/ski extra hard on them to get the Polar X out before they go out to the mountains? I'm thinking of using some for MK.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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slikedges, I think most of them use the skis on "real" snow as well. But from what I've seen; just do two sessions on the indoor snow and it'll take the Polar X (and any other wax) off for you.
I'm just planning to hot scrape a few times with an all purpose wax before taking them to the Alps, to get the last bit out. As I understand it, having a wax on the ski with a temperature range below the actual temperature of the snow isn't a big problem. But they can get sticky if you have it the other way round.
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They tend to have other skis for dry slopes. Most of the racers are kids so be honest I don't they get out to the mountains that often more than a week or two a season.
I wouldn't worry about trying to get the Polar out as the snow at MK will do that for you! In fact any left in as a good thing. Skis will never run fast if they do not have at least several coats of wax applied to them, including a couple of layers of very cold temperature wax which pulls off any raised up micro fibres during the scraping process.
The addition of very low temp wax to the 3/4 layers of soft penetrating wax used when prepping either new skis or when prepping after a base grind not only helps protect the base, but faster skis (not just race skis) are then easier to control & turn etc.
If you use Polar then prior to going to resort just give your skis a few firm passes with a brass brush, a hot scrape to clean & then hot wax for the conditions expected - which probably means a universal wax.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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slikedges, I might be wrong - but I'm sure that structure pads and cork do the same job as brushes, so you shouldn't need them..
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slikedges,
Structure pads - not required.
Cork - used to rub in fluoro race wax overlays or to rub in wax that's been 'crayoned' cold over the base. Works by the friction generating heat. Not usually required by the recreational skier.
'Beast' is a tuning products brand name from http://www.ski-racing.com . Their tuning video is highly recommended. Their 'secret sauce' is a cutting fluid for use with diamond & moonflex stones. A non oil based cutting fluid, usually some kind of water & alcohol mixture, should always be used with stones. Oil based products will get in to the base & inhibit wax penetration. If you use a file always rub chalk on it to stop the teeth clogging & use a file card to clean it.
I'll PM you a tuning guide I've been putting together.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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>> I'll PM you a tuning guide I've been putting together.
Me too please 
ta!
Greg
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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and me if you would be so kind.
Many thanks in advance
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spyderjon, impressive stuff! Brilliant guide, thanks. 
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You know it makes sense.
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right, got spyderjons instructions and working back thru this I need all the following!!
I am tuning 2 different length of 1080 skis and also some Fischer Slalom skis.
I won't want to change the angle of the edges, so I can remove the file & coarse stone?
Some other questions! I use the Toko tool to keep the current angle. correct???, and assuming the angles are different between 1080s and Fischers, does it cope with this?
Datawax Polar X wax - Blue for Xscape £4.80 www.datawax.com.
Datawax Polar X wax - Green for all purpose £3.60
3121 Aluminium side angle guide c/w clamp £17.50 Ronnie at Kandie Products on 01324 861 296
3224 Diamond stone, coarse/black £23.55
3226 Diamond stone, medium/blue £23.55
3263 Diamond stone, fine/red £18.90
3238 World cup std file without tang £8.00
3246 Gummi stone £7.00
3333 Brake lock rubbers c/w finger pull £2.50
Toko World Cup Base Bevel Guide £40
Ski Vice: Super Pro Plus - 3 point fix £68.00 www.datawax.com.
£217.40
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| gregh wrote: |
right, got spyderjons instructions and working back thru this I need all the following!!
I am tuning 2 different length of 1080 skis and also some Fischer Slalom skis.
I won't want to change the angle of the edges, so I can remove the file & coarse stone?
Some other questions! I use the Toko tool to keep the current angle. correct???, and assuming the angles are different between 1080s and Fischers, does it cope with this? |
Yep, if you're not changing angles you can remove the file & coarse stone.
If your Toko tool is angle adjustable you can use that instead of the side angle guides & stones. However they are just not as good quality & as it sounds like you're going to be tuning regularly so you're best with the guides & stones.
You will however need different file guides to suit the angles you want. You can actually get a slightly more expensive side angle file that has removable tapered shims that alter the angle but they're a bit of a pain to use & you'll get far more consistency from fixed angle guides. The reel tuning geeks ( ) end up have multiple guides of the same angle so that they don't have to keep changing the different grades of stones!
BTW, the factory angles on your Fischer slalom skis are 1 degree base & 3 degrees side (known as 1&3). Your 1080's are 1&1 although Salomon factory spec can up to 1.5&1.5. Therefore your gonna need a 1 degree base angle guide, a 1 degree side angle guide & an additional 3 degree side angle guide.
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Poster: A snowHead
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I too got your tuning guide...very much appreciated.
I'll be tuning Voelkl 724's for myself and my wife.
Atomic Sugar Daddies for myself.
salomon 3v varients for the kids.
Do you (oh fountain of tuning knowledge...you know just a tad more than is stricktly healthy know the angles I need?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I'd just do 'em all the same. In my case that's 1* bottom and 2* sides on everything I've got in the house, regardless of make or model.
The consensus on Epic says 1* and 3* and I may try that later (read - when I buy a new guide).
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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right, cheers,
So I need TWO of these, each with a different angle?
"Aluminium side angle guide"
Then you'd recommended this:
"Toko World Cup Base Bevel Guide"
Will that do the 1 degree on the base for both sets of skis?
Any comments on the vice? I think it's this model:
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| rungsp wrote: |
I too got your tuning guide...very much appreciated.
I'll be tuning Voelkl 724's for myself and my wife.
Atomic Sugar Daddies for myself.
salomon 3v varients for the kids.
Do you know the angles I need? |
All Atomics are 1,3
Sallies are 1,1 although the factory spec says they can go up to 1.5,1.5
724's are 1,2.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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gregh
Yes you'll need an 89 degree & an 87 degree side angle guides.
Yes a 1 degree Toko base edge guide for both skis (I use that one).
A yes on the vice also.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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right, sorted, not cheap though
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yeh guess so, if I start going to XScape regularly it'll be worth it! How often do you wax when going to XScape?
That website for the Toko guide doesn't seem to work :- http://www.artech.com
oh, and where do I get the cutting fluid from in the UK?
regards,
greg
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Just noticed the diamond files at exorbitant prices if anyone wants me to source some I can probably do the set of 3 for about £35.00 they are the same as ones we use for wood work. I'll see what I can sort out with a little profit for snowHeads as well. If your interested PM me.
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gregh, I've been told white wine vinegar works equally well. spyderjon, any views?
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FAQ
