I have a bit of a dilemma. I'm about 5 foot 9 btw.
I like skiing long skis, in the 190 sort of range, but I struggle with kickturns whilst touring on steep terrain with them. I can manage when the snow is soft by shoving the tail of one ski under the other, but this doesn't work on hard snow. I mainly tour for nice snow, but obviously it doesn't always work out that way.
I'm currently touring on 193 EHPs with TLT Speeds, but want to get a new set. I could get somethign shorter, narrower and lighter (like the Down CD107) to complement the EHPs, and be left wth the dilemma of which to take each day, or get a replacement aiming to cover all bases in one ski.
I think the 4FRNT Hoji would work well for this (maybe the Down CD110, but it has more sidecut than I'd like). Problem with the Hoji is I'm not sure if the 187 would be short enough to make the kick turns that much easier, and I'm not sure that the 179 would be enough ski (both for enjoin the descents, and for skin contact area on hard steep slopes going up and edge contact going down)... Given the flatter camber profile I think the 179 EHP would work really well, but hard to find one now.
What lenght of ski do you find manageable for steep kick turns, and how tall are you? Can you think of any skis that would be like a 183 Hoji? Price is much more important than weight! Not a twin tip, though tail rocker is nice.
Thanks!
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Shorter skis are even worse on steep, hard, snow.
I feel your pain Clarky, kick turns with the Ranger 195's are painful, doubly so skinning on refreeze from the day before and require a lot of commitment on steep, icy sections to get my legs far enough apart that the tails clear. I'm 185cm and pretty lanky with it.
I've no problems with 180-185cm skis. Currently looking at the 186 Nunataq with Speeds as a lighter touring setup.
I'd be interested to know the answer. Every time I've changed ski, I've gone a bit longer (current skis are just a bit taller than me) and thought that kick turns might be made more difficult but it's not been the case. I do ski with close fitting trousers though ... I mention that because it could be baggy pants get in the way as you come about ?
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meh wrote:
a lot of commitment on steep, icy sections
Kick turning on steep sections of rock and grass is pretty intimidating too.
moffatross, it only really becomes a problem when the tail of the new downhill ski ends up sitting on the other ski when you're halfway through. It binds up the other ski making a snappy and efficient kick impossible, instead you end up with a bit of awkward struggling to unbind things. If that's at your natural stride width then every kick turn ends up like that until you adjust and then its both somewhat uncomfortable and requires bigger movements to get properly over the new downhill ski as you kick round. Baggy trousers aren't a problem because the ski tips stay well out of range.
The bigger movements make precarious kick turns more exciting.
Moving to a much longer ski with a much more centered stance would be the ultimate example of a problem causer.
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
I'm 172cm (5' 8") and the longest touring skis I have are 177cm. The fantastic walk mode in a new pair of dynafits TLT6's made kick turns a lot easier and lowered the need to do so many kick turns. (often go straight up where in my previous boots I would need to put kick turns in)
Failing that have you ever considered snow shoes
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current touring skis are 188cm K2 Hardside.... (@ 6ft3" tall).
they are fine - but kick turns on steeper slopes can be a minor pain in the @rse
FWIW dynafits have no return spring (unlike fritschi), which makes kick turns a little trickier.
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where does the length create issues? if it's flipping the new downhill ski around in the first place, there's only so much you can do. if it's transferring your weight once you have got it flipped around - try to adjust your technique so it's a bit more like this guy's:
requires a bit of flexibility but much more stable than lurching from one ski to the other while they are miles apart
i have toured on 194 skis and it's getting my leg over in the first place that sometimes causes problems on steep slopes - once it's over and I have my feet in a nice solid position next to eachother but pointing in opposite directions, the rest is simple
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Arno, a bit of both. On mellow slopes like in the video it's not really a problem, though still quite a big step to get the tail of the first ski to clear the planted one. When the slope gets to much over 30 degrees or so, I struggle a bit to get the first ski across the slope in that window wiper sort of action too. Flexibility and technique are probably a fairly large part of the problem though. That and the relatively centred mount on the EHPs.
Mainly it's pretty much what meh described though:
Quote:
it only really becomes a problem when the tail of the new downhill ski ends up sitting on the other ski when you're halfway through. It binds up the other ski making a snappy and efficient kick impossible, instead you end up with a bit of awkward struggling to unbind things. If that's at your natural stride width then every kick turn ends up like that until you adjust and then its both somewhat uncomfortable and requires bigger movements to get properly over the new downhill ski as you kick round.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
DB, Had been thinking about yoga as in general my flexibility isn't all that great!
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
clarky999, it's not just a ski length comparison thing, it also depends on the rocker/mounting position on the skis which will alter the 'free tail length'. I'm 175cm & my 186cm Rangers (mounted on the FR line) are easy to kick turn but my 190cm CDC3's are more difficult & it's easy to get the tail hooked up if not concentrating, especially in anything over boot depth. Even though there's only 40mm difference in ski lengths the CDC3's have a 75mm longer tail due to the more central mounting position due to the additional tail rocker.
Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much on Wed 16-07-14 20:48; edited 1 time in total
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
back to the first post question: i am 5' 10'' and have k2 hardside 174 and k2 coomback 188. the extra 12 cms does appear to make a difference to my kickturn with the shorter length feeling short and very doable and the longer feeling a little bit clunky. am sure it also depends on exactly how long your legs are and of course on flexibility and technique
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clarky999 wrote:
DB, Had been thinking about yoga as in general my flexibility isn't all that great!
You can do a kick turn called a Polka if you are having trouble (it looks roughly like the Polka dance step); it is also useful when the slopes are around 40 degrees.
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Length of skis is not a problem but dodgy knees certainly are
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You can do a kick turn called a Polka if you are having trouble (it looks roughly like the Polka dance step); it is also useful when the slopes are around 40 degrees.
davidof, I've not heard of a Polka kick turn & couldn't find anything on a google search - do you have any info/instructions etc?
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Don't know about polka turns but there is a variation on the kick turn where in the second part of the turn rather than kick and twist, you draw the ski back so the tip is by the uphill boot then pivot round on the up hill leg and slide it forward. I'll try and find a vid. I found the return springs on my old Fritchis more trouble than worth. My dyna stars with tech bindings are slightly tail heavy which I find much easier as the tip doesn't catch as easily on steep stuff.
After all it is free
After all it is free
spyderjon wrote:
davidof wrote:
You can do a kick turn called a Polka if you are having trouble (it looks roughly like the Polka dance step); it is also useful when the slopes are around 40 degrees.
davidof, I've not heard of a Polka kick turn & couldn't find anything on a google search - do you have any info/instructions etc?
I use them when the slope is in the 35-40 degree range. Around 40 degree it is safer to climb with crampons; as it is if the snow is refrozen at even low angles.
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clarky999 wrote:
What lenght of ski do you find manageable for steep kick turns, and how tall are you?
I'm your height, and I just about cope with a 180cm
clarky999 wrote:
Can you think of any skis that would be like a 183 Hoji? Price is much more important than weight! Not a twin tip, though tail rocker is nice.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
davidof, thanks, I managed to put my back out doing them a couple of years back, the same year that I tore a calf muscle doing the polka at a beer festival.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
The free tail lenght thing definitely makes sense. EHPs are relatively centre mounted so that definitely doesn't help!
davidof, cheers, I'll have to have a go at that!
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Serriadh wrote:
clarky999 wrote:
Can you think of any skis that would be like a 183 Hoji? Price is much more important than weight! Not a twin tip, though tail rocker is nice.
Phwoar that's a sexy ski, and in the 184 could actually be exactly what I need! Unfortunately out of my price range for now.
The 182 Praxis GPO may be a shout though. Also out of my price range normally, but my flatmate is sponsored by Praxis so I may be able to work out a deal...
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
clarky999 wrote:
The 182 Praxis GPO may be a shout though. Also out of my price range normally, but my flatmate is sponsored by Praxis so I may be able to work out a deal...
If you weren't in too much of a rush, I think there are a few of last year's 182 GPOs (definitely fibreglass, possibly carbon, too) that were unsold at the end of the season. In the past, those sorts of leftovers were put on sale again closer towards Christmas or in the new year, and for a fairly substantial discount. I'm prepared to wait a bit, but my skiing season doesn't kick off til January anyway.
I'd offer you a Praxis discount code, but it wouldn't be any better than anything your housemate has
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clarky999 wrote:
davidof, cheers, I'll have to have a go at that!
The nurses?
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Late to the party here so wont throw more models into the mix but...
Oh (maybe this is just common knowledge) random trick for longer skis on harder snow that I've been playing with is a downhill kick turn, little more dynamic but stops things getting all cramped up. Not so nice if you are in a deep track though
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clarky, I'm 5'9" and did the tour of Gd Paradiso (no lifts) hut to hut 184 but I decided that I'd be happier with something <180 for trips like that which involve much more time going up than skiing down. I might feel differently for side country though. Would have thought fat, straightish skis at 178ish would be ideal for touring at my kind of height
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