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Where to next? Winter 2015

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
EDIT: Due to some complications with schedules among the various parts of the family, we've been significantly delayed in our planning. Unfortunately, it looks like the prime week for everyone is going to be Feb 15-21 which overlaps with a lot of the school holidays.

Is there anywhere in the Alps that will be manageable that week with the likely crowds? I think the preference if possible is to find something in France or Switzerland.
Lodging availability is another issue, clearly.

It's looking like it will be just 4 or 5 of us now, all expert skiers and we do still plan to hire a guide for the week.

As always, thanks for the input!



*Original Post Below*

As stated in my post planning last year's trip (link below), this forum has been an incredible resource. That post lead us to Selva. I, unfortunately, had to cancel at the last minute, though the rest of the group had a great time. Including that trip, we've spent a week of March in Chamonix, Zermatt and Selva over the past 3 seasons. I think the group consensus was, other than the scenery, Chamonix and Zermatt were preferred to Selva. This was in large part due to conditions (outside of anyone's control, clearly) and off-piste options (also limited by conditions) but also do to the queues on the Sella Ronda.

It's now time to figure out where to go for 2015. Even with some experience skiing in Europe, it's still overwhelming given the options (so many places to stay within each destination). It still feels much different than planning a trip to the Rockies here in the US or Canada.

We're looking for a good mix of off-piste skiing (we will hire a guide for the week), on-piste skiing for those not joining the off-piste group, great scenery, good food and a nice atmosphere/charm for whatever town/village we end up in. This trip will again be a family trip of about 10 people including expert skiers, a few intermediates, and a few non-skiers. Additional members joining us this year are a snowboarder(expert level) and two babies that will be traveling with us.

We again want to do this as an independent trip. A large Chalet, which we found in Zermatt, is preferred to multiple apartments, which we did in Selva. Self-catered is also preferred so that we can get a good sampling of local restaurants if the location makes sense for such.

We will be traveling in and out of Geneva this time so are thinking that our best options are either in France or Switzerland. Unlike prior years, we have some flexibility on dates in 2015 from the last week of January through the end of February.

I'd greatly appreciate any input on both when and where, knowing there might be some interdependency between the two.

For "when", I found the thread here on European School Holidays (link below) which would seem to indicate that the week of Feb 14-21 is a bad idea. Are there other weeks that should be avoided? If so, would it matter in any given week if we were in Switzerland or France?

As to "where", I came up with the 3 Vallees, Alpe d'Huez, Espace Killy, Les Deux Alpes, Paradiski, and 4 Vallees. I can't quite say how I came up with these and am not necessarily set on any of them. Also, within a large linked area such as 3 Vallees, there looks to be upwards of 15 different places to stay. As I said, a bit overwhelming!

Given what were are looking for, what would you recommend from the above or any place that I missed?

I look forward to hearing everyone's thoughts and another great trip! Thanks!


Link to last year's post: http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=102158

European School Holidays: http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=107562


Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Thu 13-11-14 19:47; edited 1 time in total
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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rustlerski, aosta valley reachable easily from Geneva. Both Courmayeur or Monterosa would fit your requirements broady except that the large chalet concept os not really an Italian thing.
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rustlerski, Well I can see you are fare behind with your planning - for our group we have decidet to go to Mottaret 8th of february, in the middle of the 3V. Booked 2 rooms form Savoie Holidays and look forward to visit the "Petit Savoyard" i Courchovel.

If going to 3V the middle valley is best to stay in in terms of skiing, I think. We do not need town-life, so Mottaret is perfect for that - will Meribel is better if there should be intertainment beside the skiing.

However in Paradiski - Vallandry is a good location - and in La Villaret you find many english independent chalet companies.


Tignes Les Brevieres we found a very nice of track small original village.


You do not write what you are looking for - size - kids - townlife - soo difficult to advice, but english half term is to bee avoided if you go to France.

snowHead
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Thanks! Will look into Courmayeur or Monterosa, though think the group will want to hold of on Italy for this coming year.

Anyone with additional thoughts? Thanks!
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
rustlerski, the only sensible week to go to France in 2015, given you have the flexibility, is the first week - French school hols after that, for four weeks.

As for destination - Verbier seems an obvious option and the timing considerations could well be different there. I don't know it, but lots do and could give specific advice. Good self catering accommodation for 10 people - where you can all sit round the same table - needs specific recommendations as places that big aren't easily found. I could recommend 3 or 4 great ones, in my neck of the French woods, but that's not suitable for your wish for extensive guided off piste.
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If you are looking for quieter resorts then the last week of January or the first week of February is the better option for France. All the resorts you have identified would fit the bill but I'm going to throw another large French ski area (where you can also ski into Switzerland) into the mix which might be an option - the Portes du Soleil? Some of the resorts you listed don't offer so much in the way of village charm but mountain views make up for it. I suppose narrowing it down depends on the importance of each of your requirements...
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Portes du Soleil you won't be using mountain guides. But plenty of great skiing in a very non North American format.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Can see where you're coming from under a new name, it doesn't have high alpine/glacial terrain like Chamonix or Zermatt but might suit some for off piste. Suitable options will depend on what type of off piste skiing the OP is after.
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juliad, I should have made that a little clearer shouldn't I? Yes, the OP may want to head off with a ski school instructor if they want to find hidden o-p and aren't comfortable finding it yourself (or indeed, if you aren't comfortable with a piste map Twisted Evil ) But they're unlikely to need a high mountain guide unless they plan on e.g. descending the Dents du Midi http://www.chablais-grimpe.com/skirando/dtsmidi/dtsmidi_raide.php?f=0
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Those look like fairly serious chutes. I didn't realise you could ski the face of the Dents.
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juliad, the longer I hang out in Chamonix the more I realise that someone somewhere thinks they can ski anything snowHead
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
So you haven't been to Austria rustlerski?I know you are travelling into Geneva but for another trip, the following would be - as you would no doubt say Toofy Grin - awesome! All are high altitude with reliable snow records.

St Anton
Lech/Zurs/Warth/Schrocken (Newly linked massive area) - Note: St Anton is on the same lift pass and is linked by bus.
Ischgl
Solden
Obergurgl

Do let us know what you decide for 2015!
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
pam w Thanks for highlighting Verbier. One of the group has spent some time there and enjoyed it. There is a lot of info here on Verbier, Le Chable and Nendaz. Does anyone know anything about La Tzoumaz?

juliad I will also look into Portes du Soleil. I guess we are being greedy looking for the great skiing, village charm and mountain views. I know the skiers prioritize the skiing. I will have to speak with some of the others on the relative importance of the other two.

under a new name Can you elaborate on what you mean by "non North American formatt"? Thanks. We're plenty comfortable with a piste map. In terms of off-piste, we're up for it all save for pure cliffs. Steeps, powder, chutes, glaciers, glades, etc., are all good as long as the terrain is interesting. The main purpose of the guide is to maximize what we access during the week as there is no way we will be able to accumulate enough local knowledge before the trip. Also to have someone who has a sense of where the crevasses are if the off piste is glacial.

mountainaddict Austria is definitely on the list. Logistics won't allow for the group to make it there this year, but a few of us might try to take some extra time. Appreciate the leads.


Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much on Wed 9-07-14 7:16; edited 1 time in total
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
In light of that info rustlerski, I'd definitely say your original list was spot on for what you are looking for Smile

Verbier sounds ideal. If you also think about La Grave with the Les Deux Alpes option then you'd have loads of serious terrain variation. Not sure of the logistics of getting round to La Grave from Alpe d'Huez though. Someone here has probably done it? Espace Killy and Paradiski also ideal. If you want some glacier skiing in the 3 Vallees then there is the Gebroulaz glacier too which would give you some interesting options. Have fun picking!
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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rustlerski, by non-NA I mean that my experience in NA is that areas tend to be reasonably geographically compact but very efficient in terms of laying out many trails from each lift.

They also glade, which is something that you don't see so much in Europe. (Glading being the act of thinning forest out to make it easier/possible to tree ski.

EU areas tend to be less efficient with terrain, for a whole bundle of reasons - but the big names tend to be very big e.g. PdS quotes something like 650kms of piste and (?) 150 odd lifts on one linked lift pass.

If you really want cliffs you're probably better off in high terrain Chamonix, Verbier, St Anton - but you don't. snowHead

The PdS gives you enormous variety and Morzine or Chatel a good mix of alpine town with ski access.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I sent this thread to the family and we've seemingly narrowed it down to Meribel, Val d'Isere or Verbier/Tzoumaz. It also looks like the trip will be the first week of February which looks like we should miss half term crowds.

Any additional thoughts? Are any of those locations significantly reliable for conditions at that time of year (i doubt it, but one never knows)?

I think we've narrowed the focus points to great off piste, great scenery and hopefully enough of a town/charm to keep the non-skiers happy. Thanks again.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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rustlerski, Meribel somewhat sticks out in my mind out of that group (I have to confess I've skied many places but not the 3Vs!) - VdI and Verbier are both excellent (although Verbier may be "cut off" from the rest of the 4Vs this winter) and both have amazing off piste opportunities.

My perception (and friend reports) are that teh 3Vs are better if you're just looking for cruisy motorways - notwithstanding the fact that there's off piste anywhere you go in the Alps...

Not sure (as I've never had that particular problem) what the non-skiing activities are in any of those...
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Just edited my original post at the top. Looking forward to everyone's input!
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Your shortlist of three is very good. Personally I rate EK and 3V much higher than Verbier area, PDS and Paradiski. I look for much the same features you describe. For what it' s worth, after 30 years of skiing, my chart goes: 1. EK, staying Val D side. 2. 3V, staying Meribel/Mottaret or Courchevel if good chalet deal. 3. St Anton, with trips to Lech/Zurs. 4. Paradiski, staying Les Arcs side (but area lacks attractive town). 5. Verbier. 6. PDS, staying in Les Gets.
Lots of chalets in Meribel and Val D. Detail of location well worth extra research. Happy to help with own opinions, as I am sure other snowheads with resort knowledge will.
Reasons EK top for me includes : challenging, edgier, slightly scarier feel out on mountains. Great lift system with long queues rarer. Snow conditions generally a little better in my experience. On the downside, Tignes is not pretty, with landscape bleak and unforgiving in snowy/windy weather. Top snow conditions though. Staying in La Daille has some benefits, eg quick lift links to Tignes, better home runs at end of day than Val D centre, quieter but only 5 -10 mins on regular verse bus to town centre.
3V has more kilometres of piste. The 4th valley (Maurienne) is easily accessible and well worth the trip beyond Val Thorens. Meribel generally quite attractive although separate areas a bit detached and not easily walkable.
Both Val D and Meribel have plenty lively entertainment. Both expensive, because they're the best areas overall in Europe, I guess.
Lots of agents websites good for chalet searches. I find Alpine Answers gives details, photos, useful location map, etc for research.

Choosing between your shortlisted areas is a nice problem to have! Good luck.
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@rustlerski, shame about your dates, that's (and New Year) the very busiest week to ski in France Sad

Given that, you could consider going back to Zermatt. I skied there two Feb Half Terms and it wasn't actually too bad. Also consider 4 vallees resorts such as Nendaz, Siviez etc, we've skied there too at Half Term and again not too bad particularly using Siviez as a base as uplift from there is very quick in either direction. There are lots of nice chalets in this area if you can find one still available.

Or perhaps consider the Swiss side resorts of the PDS. We've skied the PDS the past three half terms now and the Swiss side is always much quieter than the French.

Good luck snowHead
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Has Rustlerski moved the planned holiday date to first week of February now, did I read? If so, that week will probably be lively enough but not manic, like later that month.
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@rustlerski,
My own inclination would be going to Switzerland rather than France, you are at peak time for French holidays. The large French resorts that you are short-listing are also distinctly short on Alpine Charm in my view. It is also generally easier to find spacious self catering accommodation for large groups in Switzerland and in non purpose built resorts.
I think @sarah, suggestion of Nendaz is pretty good it has better views for people left with babies than Verbier and shares the same area. Another resort that you could look at is Davos or Klosters which has an extensive area with great off piste, years ago we went with baby and granny to help look after baby and had a great time there is a lot of life in the valley outwith skiing even if Davos itself is not the most attractive of Swiss towns.
The other points I would make are that it is a busy week I would try and secure accommodation and a guide early, even in towns with plenty of large chalets they book early in popular weeks.

You could try the tourist board in the different resorts another option is Interhome which has a good selection of properties.

http://www.interhome.co.uk/?gclid=COTOpban_cECFRHItAod30gACA&partnerid=IH1000024
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
If you really can't avoid the 15 - 21 February, @rustlerski, and some of your group want to stay firmly on-piste I really would avoid France and look at some of the Swiss suggestions. It really isn't the week for a big French resort - or a small one, for that matter. Such a shame to come so far and spend a long time in poorly-organised lift queues. Zermatt again if you don't mind re-visiting?
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Thanks for all the responses! I shared the thoughts with my traveling companions and convinced them that we really needed to push the trip back a week to the last week of February, so the 21st-28th.

I think a few of us with more flexibility are going to try to get to La Grave for a few days just before we settle in for that week.
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@rustlerski, La Grave sounds a good call for an exciting warm up, with plenty options nearby if weather a bit hostile around the Col de Lauteret, eg Alpe-D'Huez, Serre Chevalier, St Tropez. Looks like Zones B and C of France are on their winter school holiday during last week of February 2015 (see link below). You'll note Zone C includes Paris, traditionally a busy week in the Alps. Also offering personal encounters with traditional Parisian courtesy...'après tu Jean-Pierre...mais non, après tu Thierry Jacques'...rarely heard in the lift lines). Nevertheless I'd have thought a better week than mid Feb, when much of Western Europe is also on their half term break, along with Zone A France, which includes big nearby cities of Lyon and Grenoble. Snowheads, especially those based in France and other European alpine areas, could advise on places that might be less crowded late Feb I'm sure. My own experience still suggests EK with 3V a close second, based on what you describe you're looking for.

http://www.education.gouv.fr/pid25058/le-calendrier-scolaire.html
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