 Poster: A snowHead
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Apols if this is already posted elsewhere, but I couldn't find it. As a result of a leader getting hauled off the mountain in Val d'Isere earlier this season the SCGB is, for now, planning to stop leading in France next season. Instead it will have "ambassadors" in its resorts who will meet at the lifts and help people figure out where to ski and who to ski with.
http://www.skiclub.co.uk/skiclub/news/story.aspx?storyID=9198#.U7KPYygvCeM
Its unclear to me if the new "Ambassadors" will still be on the mountain with guests, just not skiing with them...
Seems a huge shame (as a user of the leading service and SCGB member, its my main reason for being a member). The SCGB's goal is now to use social media and its internet forum to enable like minded skiers to meet up and arrange to ski together - sound familiar...? 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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snowdave,
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| The SCGB's goal is now to use social media and its internet forum to enable like minded skiers to meet up and arrange to ski together - sound familiar...? |
Yup. Just what I was planning to do when they suddenly shut the forum to non-members.
It has since been re-opened to all, except for a couple of MO subforums. I looked in a few times and managed to get them to correct many mangled usernames in the archives - but sadly as an active forum community it's dead as the proverbial...... A new improved forum for arranging meetings etc, as they promise, is no good if no-one ever uses it.
And although the new Ambassador role is prominently displayed and explained in News, the Ski Leader section of the website ("Where can I ski with a Leader") has NOT been updated - and still includes the French Resorts 
http://www.skiclub.co.uk/skiclub/skiresorts/skiclubresorts.aspx
Sorting out their web site and incorporating forum users' sensible comments and suggestions is not SCGB's forte. Even when they have agreed to do something, and of course unlike sH they also have full time paid staff to implement changes, they rarely happen.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Ahh, thanks, sorry for the repost. I don't frequent snownews and wasn't even aware there was a SCGB sub-forum on here! (tho, given the previous post was over 6m ago, it appears to have even less traffic than the SCGB's own forums).
The Ambassador role is displayed but not really explained - its totally unclear whether they will actually be on the mountain. I wonder if they will take the lift up with guests, point them to a run, meet them a couple of runs later, etc. I skied with an operator ski-host years ago in deux alpes, and that's how they had to "lead" after a run in with the ski school.
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snowdave, the sH SCGB sub-forum is not really in use any more - it was active when sH was first set up but now it's hidden away in Archives - you're not alone in not being familiar with it. No problems.
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If the SCGB is going to stop its guiding service in France will that not significantly undermine the objective of joining for many of its Members ? What will its remaining attraction be for those that want to ski in France ?
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It's the sole reason for my membership. I'd love to vote with my feet, but the lure of Val is too great. I feel particularly sorry for the reps who make a lifestyle out of the activities, such as Ken and Paul Mongan.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
It's the sole reason for my membership. I'd love to vote with my feet, but the lure of Val is too great. I feel particularly sorry for the reps who make a lifestyle out of the activities, such as Ken and Paul Mongan.
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...oops...doesn't this post somewhat weaken their defence that they are volunteers...??
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| andrewchalmers wrote: |
| Quote: |
It's the sole reason for my membership. I'd love to vote with my feet, but the lure of Val is too great. I feel particularly sorry for the reps who make a lifestyle out of the activities, such as Ken and Paul Mongan.
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...oops...doesn't this post somewhat weaken their defence that they are volunteers...?? |
Dunno why.. if someone can do multiple leading slots as they are of 'independent means' or can cover their costs over the summer, then why is it any different from someone volunteering in any other capacity for several months?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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[quote="feef"]
| andrewchalmers wrote: |
| ... Dunno why.. if someone can do multiple leading slots as they are of 'independent means' or can cover their costs over the summer, then why is it any different from someone volunteering in any other capacity for several months? |
I think the commercial aspect of the SCGB is pretty clear to anyone without a vested interest in it.
The SCGB/ BASI approach seems to me to lack courage and honesty. It pretends that it's not in business when it clearly is, rather than tackling the root problem. They have relied on their own people breaking laws, rather than using their power to fight the laws. Perhaps now they'll be forced to stand and fight. Or they could just all fade away I suppose.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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This is an absolutely huge blow to the SCGB. I assume it is a precaution in view of the upcoming court case. I don't think the resorts will like it either - they, in effect, fund the reps being in their resorts so must feel SCGB reps are in the resorts own interests. Clearly the Ambassadors are a stop gap measure - if it carried on in that way it would probably be the end of the scgb (though Fresh-Tracks holidays would survive).
Actually, though, I guess the case against the rep will probably fail through some sort of fudge. Or does the resort support in the form of accommodation and lift pass count as remuneration in a way that cannot be fudged?
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You know it makes sense.
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Oh come on!!! The SCGB has been a TO for years with the prime objective of turning a profit from their various 'services'. We've all known that the 'Leader' service is funded by both membership subscriptions and resort sponsorship providing the Leaders as a 'subsidized' in-resort recruitment portal. It's a JOB! and one that has been dancing around the legaleez(sic) jargon for as long as this forum has existed. There may be plenty of lovely leader members . . . there are also some complete tw**s. Perhaps that's immaterial, but the SCGB has always known the rules and has been playing games with descriptive semantics for years.
SnowHeads IS the SCGB forum . . . informal as that may be . . . and truth be told all the Ski Party members I've met as slushNuts are sweet people . . . it's only the SCGB representatives who post here that drag the club down to where I enjoy invective discourse.
The Club has lost any and all rights to represent the skiing public of this country, let alone any formal sporting recognition. It is insular, divisive, arrogant and in it's current iteration, obsolete.
Perhaps SnowHead Towers should relocate to Wimbledon?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Masque wrote: |
| The SCGB .... is insular, divisive, arrogant and in it's current iteration, obsolete. |
Lord, who cares? It's a membership service organisation that either you think is worth paying for or not. Most apparently conclude not.
The more interesting question is who and why in the French authorities and ski industry thinks this is anything other than an own goal.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Another question that might be relevant - compared to the cost of providing a leader with travel, accommodation, lift pass, food, drink etc for a week would it cost the club more or less to hire a local guide/instructor for the days where the guiding service is actually required?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I don't think the club actually pays for those things, so its not as if dropping the leading service would save much. My understanding is that the leader pays for their training, for travel the ski club gives them £250 (even for Feb half term, so the leader I skied with last year was £200 out of pocket on his £450 flight), accommodation & lift pass are provided by the resort, and food and drink provided by hotel, resort or bar.
Looking at it another way, which European resorts without ski club leaders find it economically viable to provide the kind of service you're suggesting themselves?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| dogwatch wrote: |
| Masque wrote: |
| The SCGB .... is insular, divisive, arrogant and in it's current iteration, obsolete. |
Lord, who cares? It's a membership service organisation that either you think is worth paying for or not. Most apparently conclude not.
The more interesting question is who and why in the French authorities and ski industry thinks this is anything other than an own goal. |
Agree that it's entirely up to the members whether they see SCGB as a worthwhile offering. Personally I'd find it hard to imagine them coming into being in present form in today's world but that's largely down to the lack of focus.
People have talked about French own goals ad naseum in other TO guiding threads. I think it' s trivial. For everyone who switches to another country in protest there will be someone, not necessarily British, more than happy to use that bed space.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Bed space is in oversupply in French resorts outside the peak weeks and significantly more so in 2013/2014 than previously. Or so I was told by someone in a good position to know.
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| dogwatch wrote: |
| Bed space is in oversupply in French resorts outside the peak weeks. Or so I'm told by someone in a good position to know. |
Of course it is by definition but I doubt the needle is seriously moved by those who simply must have a rep to ski with. Plus I think Brits have to realise we' re not the only game in town. Not for nothing do resorts target Eastern Europeans , Scandis and Cloggies.
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Dave of the Marmottes, i'd agree. During the "crisis" and GBPs weakness our rates fell, our brits reduced but overall occupancy remaines the same.
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under a new name, similarly for us, although our Brits started to increase again last winter.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Hells Bells, our income (annualised) was astonishingly well correlated to EURGBP. What we see now and hope will continue is increasing continental rebookings in low season and increasing Brits.
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under a new name, we're doing well out of Spring holiday weekends and our neighbours sometimes book it for their enlarging family, as grandkids have come along since they bought it. French visitors seem to pass it round by word of mouth, many are already familiar with the village and the residence, and know a previous visitor.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I don't think it is at all clear that repping is a job. What other job do you take on knowing you will be out of pocket? It is not something you can do without some private means. TO guides, by contrast, have a salary very clearly greater than any necessary expenses.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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snowball, when I guided, I was paid 40 quid a week pls half board accom...
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| under a new name wrote: |
| snowball, when I guided, I was paid 40 quid a week pls half board accom... |
Yebbut a 3 bedroom flat in Belgravia was probably £1,000. 
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You know it makes sense.
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Dave of the Marmottes, probably.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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It's going to be interesting when they run the leader's training course in Tignes this December!!!!!!!!
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Poster: A snowHead
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Update: The leader has been invited back to court on December 8th 2014, probably still only a provisional hearing, this is going to drag on........
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FAQ
