 Poster: A snowHead
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NickyJ,
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foxtrotzulu, based on the landing time - I can't see us being back home before midnight.
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I was assuming land at 7.30, leave airport at 8.15, arrive two hours later at 10.15. Where did the extra 1.45 come from?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Getting off the plane, getting through passport, getting bags, getting into the car,
It took a full 2hrs to get off the plane and into a car coming back on Sunday 20th April this year. Now it could be they sort the problems out with passport control and don't have what ever issues they were having with getting our bags off. Half came off, and them the belt turned off and we had to wait for ages before it restarted.
When we have used meet and greet before and when we did it was at least a 20min wait for our car to turn up as well, this is why I am not sure it WILL save us time.
In addition we will almost certainly need a short stop for caffeine to keep us going doing the driving!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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NickyJ, that sounds like a rubbish airport. I'm normally on my way within 30-40 minutes, that's Birmingham, East Mids or Manchester airports. Doncaster is the best, you can go from being in the sky and seeing your car in the car park right outside, to being in your car and on the road 15 minutes later...
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queen bodecia, I would love to use those local, small, regional airports...but, generally, only the major airports go to places i want to go to on the days I want to travel. Southend is good for that but flights are still too limited to be of much use.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Its London Gatwick for you. Now we were landing earlier in the afternoon of Easter Sunday so maybe it was exceptional..... However the times we have flown from Birmingham and Southampton we were always pleasantly surprised by how quick and easy it was in comparison.
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holidayloverxx, yeah I can see the problem. I'm finding fewer and fewer flights from East Midlands and I'm rarely able to use Doncaster much as I love it. Normally Birmingham or Manchester for me.
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NickyJ, 2 hours to get out of the airport is very unusual. On the rare occasions when I travel with baggage I'm usually in the car within 45 minutes, which still seems like a long time.
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foxtrotzulu, from the wheels hitting the tarmac (landing time) to getting to the car, which may be a 20 minute bus journey away, having waited for the bus, with kids that need toilet stops, the baggage handling fiasco that is Stansted, the passport contorl queues on a busy day, I can see 1.5 hour pretty easily
taxi to stand - 5 mins
wait for steps/airbridge - 5 mins
get off plane - 5 mins (add 5 mins for a bus)
walk to passport control - 5 mins
wait at passport control - 5 mins being generous, more like 15 mins
walk to baggage claim - 2 mins
wait for baggage - 10 mins, being generous
collect skis - 5 mins later
customs - 2 mins
walk to bus stop - 5 mins, may be longer
wait for bus, 5 mins, may be longer
bus ride - 20 mins
get bags of bus - 5 mins
walk to and load car - 5 mins
set off... ther's your 1.5 hours without any toilet stops, delays at baggage etc
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If you land at Stansted at the same time as a flight from Tel Aviv, you stand no chance of a quick exit from the airport.
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NickyJ, I wouldn't try and analyse timings and worry about it, you may just get through quickly and be home in bed by 10.30, if you are late just keep everyone home for a lie in 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Unfotunately I don't think you have many rights.
We were screwed over by Thomson for our trip to Menorca tomorrow.
Booked early as three of the party are flying from Edinburgh and two from Gatwick. Flight times were pretty much perfect with the Gatwick pair arriving 45 mins earlier giving them time to go get the hire car whilst the others arrive. Thomson changed the flight times and the guys from Edinburgh now do not land till 1930 (Gatwick guys at 0940). Cue a discussion with Thomson on a refund and no options at all other than cancel and lose our money or just tough it out.
Works out ok for us as we are on the Gatwick flights, but the family up north effectively miss the first day on the Saturday and now we need to sort out a day room at a hotel for them on the last day + transfers as we will return the hire car on the following Saturday morning. One of the party is the 84 year old mil, so just dumping bags and getting a bus into the capital for the day is not really an option. We will still have a great trip though, just a little less convenient that planned.
As stated up thread, the tour operators don't see any change as significant unless it is over 12 hours.
Certainly starts to put me off early booking.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| roguemazza wrote: |
| As stated up thread, the tour operators don't see any change as significant unless it is over 12 hours. |
As I said, that was only the TOs view of what a significant change was but there is nothing defined in the regs. This means that the definition could be tested in court if your friends were prepared to do so.
I'm grateful that I don't have to endure a mega-airport. While Edinburgh is no longer the small place it once was you can still land and be in the car quickly. On my weekly commute I generally get the late flight back from Stansted that arrives at 22:50. I can be off and in the car within 10 mins of landing (hand baggage only). That is me parked in the surface car park and not meet and greet or valet.
Even when we returned from Chambery this year we were in the car within 30 mins of arrival. I had booked Valet Parking at Edinburgh which is immediately outside the terminal building. It only cost about £60 for the week when booked well in advance. I've already booked it for next February and it has cost £62 for a week.
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| roguemazza wrote: |
...
Certainly starts to put me off early booking. |
In which case, how near to the departure date are the flight time changes usually made? I may be able to check old emails for details from our last holiday.
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You know it makes sense.
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holidayloverxx, Your calculation of the time taken to get out of the airport are pretty much the same as mine, except that I was suggesting Meet & Greet which cuts out the 40 minutes (Seems excessively long?) that you spent taking the bus to Timbuktu to collect your car. The 1.5 hours I was asking about was after NickyJ has left the terminal. You've accounted for 40 minutes of it with you coach tour of the South East, but that still leaves another 50 minutes. Anyway, all this is getting very pedantic (even if quite amusing)
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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foxtrotzulu, ever parked long stay at Stansted? i live nearer than the car park! 
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Poster: A snowHead
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| holidayloverxx wrote: |
| foxtrotzulu, ever parked long stay at Stansted? i live nearer than the car park! |
Ha ha so do we! Always use meet and greet now, it's cheaper and we've never waited more than a few minutes!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Gaza, you have shiny new tram now 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I would tell them I want to cancel and that as they have not experienced an economic loss (its June FFS - they have a loooooong time to resell your slot) I anticipate the deposit refunded failing which you will take up with a) Travel agent associations (ABTA etc ) b) trading standards etc. on the basis that it is (for you) a significant change. Have them agree that the holiday is available now for them to resell.
You must bear in mind that their definitions and your definitions don't have to be aligned, and if theirs are onerous then they won't be seen to be binding on you. The most important point here is that they have plenty plenty of time to "mitigate their economic loss" by selling the holiday to someone else. Lest say they sell it £100 cheaper - then it should only cost you a net £100 to cancel. The purpose of these sorts of deposit are not to underwrite their business model (i.e. they go to charter airline " we have enough pax for x flight now - can we book it ? " "sure , but we only have the 0500 slot now on that route" -"fine, we will just jam all the deposit givers into that under our t&c's"
N.B. this course of action does not preclude you continuing to consider the rest of their offers either.
just my 2p!
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Mike-H, NickyJ, I understand you have had good experiences with esprit before. However that doesn't change the fact that they are package operators and their overriding priority is maximise profit, which for these guys is often maximised by squeezing costs. I believe that by and large booking independently works out the same cost wise for customers, but more money ends u with hotels, transfer companies etc than in TO coffers. Only by going independent can you assure flight times, airports, accommodation etc but you may lose convenience.
I think 2 hours would never go down as "significant", and no TO would think twice about changing flight times to save money. Whether it is deliberate ploy to lure customers before changing I'm not sure but wouldn't shock me in the case of some companies
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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peanuthead, also if something goes wrong the package deal should get you home. In 2012 an expected snow storm meant that we could get trapped in Les Arcs 2000. Crystal were very good and got us down the mountain on the Friday night and put us in a hotel lower down so we did not miss our flight the next day - all at their cost. If that had been a DIY I would have missed the flight. I do DIY as well, but saw the advantage of a package that year
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+1 ^
DIY is all very well but it's not necessarily the best route for those who get stressed re all the issues of travelling with a family. Something goes wrong DIY and you're the one finding overnight accomodation, transfer at antisocial hours, find a rebooking agent game. With a TO you whip out your kindle/ipad loaded withToy Story and relax.
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If that had been a DIY I would have missed the flight.
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Seriously - you'd have sat in your hotel knowing a snowfall was likely to delay you and done nothing about it  I appreciate that it's a lot easier to have someone do it for you, as Dave of the Marmottes, points out, but I don't think you can say a DIY booking would have made you miss the plane, you'd just have to sort out the arrangements.
DIY is not for everyone I appreciate that
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chrisb, that is also true. But there is risk of payback, like alterations in flight times, waiting in freezing cold in moutiers for teo hours for customers from a delayed flight from Glasgow to another airport to arrive, etc
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Boris, yes I might have planned ahead, but I would have had to pay for the hotel and the extra transfers involved. No such cost with the package, and I still skied all day Friday without having to make phone calls etc to arrange the hotel and transfer. As I had not been to Les Arcs before I think there would have been a good chance that I would not have realised that the access road from Arcs 2000 is closed often due to snow.
I DIY every year with the family, but to the same resort each year using the same companies, so if things do go wrong I know who to ring. I would be less comfortable doing DIY somewhere new, and would use a package first to get to know the resort first
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peanuthead, yes they can mess you around with flights. I have sat on a transfer bus many a time at an airport. Or even better the transfer from Morzine to GVA that took over three hours with no traffic jams or any obvious delays - I think I could have run faster!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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We've got to be careful to compare like with like. If you go DIY and book your own flights there is a pretty good chance you could still end up on the same flight that a TO would have booked you on. If you decide to DIY with your transfers then you could well end up with the local bus company (taking longer than the TO bus). A private transfer with the TO would be little different to arranging your own transfer.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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We're on a tangent here but what the heck.
I tend to book one TO ski trip for the family and the DIY with the lads. The TO solution does shift responsibility to the TO. If one element of the DIY solution goes wrong you may have to re-jig other elements yourself.
I remember BMI going belly up one year. Their last flight was part way through my planned trip. They were flying me to Majorca but cancelled the return flight! Could I speak to BMI? No chance. I had to find a new flight from a new airport, re-schedule transfers and get my credit card company to reverse the payment for both outbound and return flights. The new flight cost a few quid more too.
DIY is great but you do bear the responsibility for resolving any problems that may arise which can be a pain in the ar#e.
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DIY is great but you do bear the responsibility for resolving any problems that may arise which can be a pain in the ar#e.
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Agreed - however my personal prefernce is to have that responsibility and take action rather than waiting on someone else to do something, possibly, eventually, maybe.
DIY is also a lot easier if driving is your choice of travel.
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You know it makes sense.
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Had a call today from Esprit today to say they won't be operating the Edinburgh to Chambery flight next winter so we will have to switch to Geneva or Birmingham! Not happy as the attraction of Chambery was the shorter transfer. The return will be a nightmare. As the GVA flight is even earlier than Chambery and an hour longer I envisage a 6am departure from Belle Plagne.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Gaza, looking on the bright side, Geneva is much more reliable than Chambery which is frequently disrupted by bad weather.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Mike-H, when did BMI go "belly up"?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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under a new name, suspect Mike-H meant bmi baby.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Gaza, 
Really annoying. I am with in always going for the short transfer option especially as my daughter suffers from car sickness. Have they offered you some compensation for that change?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Gaza, except according to last years brochure the flight supplement for Edinburgh to Geneva was £59 pp but £75 pp for your original flights. Therefore they should at the very least refund / deduct the flight supplement difference. Not a lot I know but still £16 per person - £64 if you are a family of 4.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| NickyJ wrote: |
| Gaza, except according to last years brochure the flight supplement for Edinburgh to Geneva was £59 pp but £75 pp for your original flights. Therefore they should at the very least refund / deduct the flight supplement difference. Not a lot I know but still £16 per person - £64 if you are a family of 4. |
Yes, NickyJ, the flights are cheaper so they said they will refund/discount the difference.
They have given me the option of switching to Les Gets but I'm not sure the ski area is as good.
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Gaza, I see they have responded to your post on Facebook - at least the leaving time isn't as bad as feared.
Not sure about Les Gets haven't been there yet but it is on the list 
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I have just notice that their Saas Fee place has disappeared from their site as well as the Selva places.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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NickyJ, phew, we were gonna go for Selva but changed at last minute to Arabba 
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| dode wrote: |
| NickyJ, phew, we were gonna go for Selva but changed at last minute to Arabba |
Who are you going there with? As I am sure I heard of issues there in the season just gone.
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FAQ
