Poster: A snowHead
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I'm hiring a board from a rental shop on my next trip. I've got the option of Flow or regular bindings.
I'm contemplating using Flow's for the 1st time. Reason being that I'll be with a skier and I want to spend less time buckling up and keeping them waiting. Question is : will I be saving much time?
Further, what are the pro's and con's of the Flow's?
Cheers.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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VoodooBob, Once they're set up they are a bit quicker to get in and out of but nothing of any real consequence. Easy to get into without sitting down (can even do it on the move if your skills are good) They used to be heavy but not any more. Try 'em and if you don't like 'em go back and get them swapped at the shop.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Who cares how long people have to wait? Are they in a race? Is the house on fire? Wife going into labor? Don't even go there with flow, waste of time and money.
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Try sitting down to put flow bindings on, you can't. All beginners sit to put bindings on, should have seen the flow rep's face when I pointed that out when I got the chance to stock rental flow.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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VoodooBob,
If you're with skiers they are great; you will get serious abuse for keeping 'them ' waiting for even a few seconds; once you get the hang of them ( Flow's) you get set just before you dismount form a 'chair' & buckle up while sliding off...........nice ; try them, you will like
If nothing else, beats getting a cold bum as no need to sit down to buckle up.
Mitch
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Thanks all for the advice, will give the flows ago to see how they compare. Hi stab, not usually bothered about keeping people waiting, only for this trip it's just me and Franz Klammer! Just trying to make the experience as enjoyable as poss for both.
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From observation, lots of back country riders use flows, but I can't tell from a distance who's riding which, so no disadvantages or advantages there I would say.
If people have to get in and out (eg on a flat or if they are guests who fall), then the quicker they are the better. If you fall in tree wells, get the easiest thing to get out of. If you're riding with me you need to be safe and fast enough not to hold people up, that's all. I like people who don't waste my time and money.
I would try both approaches and pick the one which works for you.
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get standard bindings if you have the choice. flows take far to long to get set up correclty for each person so you'll spend to long messing about with them.
once your going the difference is slight and most people wont notice, but despite what phil says above, if you loose speed and stop in deep snow you'll wish you had normal straps!!
it takes about 5 seconds to ratchet 2 straps, not worth worring about time differences!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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eddiethebus
Im sure it is only 5 seconds to ratchet 2 straps but all the faffing about before the 'ratcheting' starts = ' alot more than 5 seconds' .....definately form my observations . There is the odd super quick person getting into standard bindings pretty fast but for most 'normal' folk its way way more than 5 secs.
Flows may take a while to set up but, once its done thats it.
Mitch
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stab wrote: |
Try sitting down to put flow bindings on, you can't. All beginners sit to put bindings on, should have seen the flow rep's face when I pointed that out when I got the chance to stock rental flow. |
Interesting, I had a snowboard lesson Monday, ratchet bindings, my instructor wouldn't let me sit down to do them up.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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off the lift... then 3 options:
1) clunk.... (that'll be the rear binding being clipped up as you ride)
2) pull over safe... clunk... (that'll be the rear binding being clipped up as you stand)
3) clunk... clunk... (that'll be when you get off a gondola and either standing or kneeling clip into the bindins)
Adjusting and faffing can be done when you fit the board at the shop or the previous evening.
In pow they can be an back bottom when snow gets behind the back plate and your leg if you have had to unclip.
With skiers they are fab as you are off the lift and are on the immediate go.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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SOP for boarders with a bunch of skiers is to be at the front for the first chair . . . you're in your binding before the rest of the idiots have started mucking around with their gloves Modern flows are no worse to use and can be set up like ratchets . . . there's nowt in it anymore
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anarchicsaltire wrote: |
stab wrote: |
Try sitting down to put flow bindings on, you can't. All beginners sit to put bindings on, should have seen the flow rep's face when I pointed that out when I got the chance to stock rental flow. |
Interesting, I had a snowboard lesson Monday, ratchet bindings, my instructor wouldn't let me sit down to do them up. |
+1 for your instructor
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You know it makes sense.
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Masque wrote: |
Modern flows are no worse to use and can be set up like ratchets . . . there's nowt in it anymore |
Highback rotation? Footbed canting? Not that I know of but I've been blanking flow at ispo for a couple of years. They finally stopped sending me their brochures now
They do fit on ICS though, don't know why.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Had two pairs of flows in 14 years... wouldn't be without mine. Do em up while you are sliding away from the drag or on the drag - same goes fro the chair.
Straight off the lift and down the mountain.
"Try sitting down to put flow bindings on" - Why?
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Poster: A snowHead
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stab wrote: |
Who cares how long people have to wait? Are they in a race? Is the house on fire? Wife going into labor? Don't even go there with flow, waste of time and money. |
Really? I've been gone from for two or three years, but some things never change. stab still can't abide Flow-style bindings, and the best reason given to avoid them is that they're "stupid". Judge for yourself whether or not that's a valid reason to dismiss an innovative technology.
I no longer ride on Flow bindings; after 6 happy and active winters, my pair of M9 bindings started to feel their age. I have replaced them with similar GNU bindings with newer tech and I couldn't be happier.
My only concern with rental bindings is that they be properly maintained, regardless of how you get in or out of them. I suggest you take a look on the day and make a call according to your preference and the state of repair of the selection.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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eddiethebus wrote: |
once your going the difference is slight and most people wont notice, but despite what phil says above, if you loose speed and stop in deep snow you'll wish you had normal straps!! |
Only old/cheap rear-entry bindings have this problem. Both my old Flow M9s and my newer GNU bindings were manageable in deep snow, because there are ratchet straps on the webbing which can be completely disconnected if required.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I had to fix one of the newer flow bindings today, they still suck, high back snapped in half, high back is only fixed on by 2 m3 tiny screws and an outdated pin and circlip which was always the fail point with flow. Best bindings on the market at the moment IMO are the Salomon hologram shadow fit.
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stab wrote: |
They do fit on ICS though, don't know why. |
? Because it's pretty easy to fit anything on ICS these days, presumably because Burton realized that they can't dictate what people want to use.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Shallimus,
Interesting that you mention the GNU binding; I have been offered a pair to try out & was considering having a go; by your comments Im supposing I should?
Mitch
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philwig wrote: |
stab wrote: |
They do fit on ICS though, don't know why. |
? Because it's pretty easy to fit anything on ICS these days, presumably because Burton realized that they can't dictate what people want to use. |
Nitro doesn't fit, Burton won't release the patent thing to them. Not all ride fit. Burton screwed themselves with 2 generations of ics, a lot of people got burned with the 1st ICS, myself included. i wont order est bindings anymore
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the standard line i hear is that Flows are quicker in and out.
if they where every instructor giving beginner lessons would be using them. and of course they aint.
Flows are heavy, unresponsive and overly complex. 2 straps is simple and efficient. not much else is needed.
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This topic comes up prettymuch every year at and every year prettymuch the same discussion takes place, which is heavy on personal opinion.
In the end, try whatever equipment you can and see what works for you. There'll always be someone who will swear up and down that this or that bit of kit is amazing/terrible, and always someone who will tell you the opposite.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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VoodooBob, if its just for saving a bit of time then don't bother. If its for ease of entry and you don't go off-piste too much in deep pow then go for it. Reason being they are f****** dangerous if you're caught if some deep pow. They're easier to get on but unless you're gonna slide off the chairlift and head straight down while buckling up then they're not worth it for what you sacrifice. Also you can tell your skier mates you'll catch em up then fly past them with a board grab or some such trick!
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Oh good grief! today's flows have ratchets, are massively lighter than they were, you can use them just like regular strap ins OR use the snap down highback . . . the only thing they don't have is a cap-strap . . . and that's a possibility for next season. They are no stronger or weaker than 90% of everything else on the market. Just don't buy cheap tat and you will be fine whatever you bolt to your board . . . and if you think you need to play about with heel/toe ramps, micro adjusting etc. . . . you're not as good as you think you are
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I love my flows. Went for some from high up the range off ebay. I'm too old for all this rolling around in the snow malarkey...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I ride normal bindings, Wifehole has Flows (well, the Salomon equivalent thereof).
She's a 'just above beginner', I'm 'fairly decent'. We should have each others' really. She rolls about on the floor trying to clip in. Flows only work if you clip in standing up!
Also, the 'config' straps gradually pull loose. They're only held in place with pressure/friction, not a ratchet. So we end up buggering around with them a lot.
I dunno. I want to like them, but I don't much. She seems to like them, but only because they don't require much physical strength like ratchets sometimes do.
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I changed to flows in attempt to resolve some foot cramps I was getting with my drake strap bindings. I was getting bad and I couldnt get the straps right. Demo'd flows and it sorted it. I assumed the large surface are spread out the pressure across the foot. Anyway, it fixed a problem. They were an early model so very heavy but as the board was a 2003 Ride Timeless which was notoriously stiff the extra weight helped with the board I felt.
Agree with previous posters that perfect for riding with skiiers. Straight of the lift, foot in and pull back up at a slow pace then off. I got grief from the skiiers over stopping at strapping in with my old bindings. They were problematic in powder where you have to sit down to strap in and thats where they became a problem. But, pros and cons....
As for durabilty, I got 7 years out of them with 2-3 trips a year before they gave up. I know have, unintentionally, a pair of Burton capstraps, as I gambled on buying replacement Flows on a trip to Meribel....I couldn't find a pair in the village and had to purchase some straps!
I don't ride enough now to justify buying new Flows after shelling £170 on some capstraps.
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You know it makes sense.
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Masque wrote: |
. . the only thing they don't have is a cap-strap . . . and that's a possibility for next season. |
Some flow models have cap straps next year, I had a play with them yesterday, pretty much destroys the whole point of having flow if you ask me. The ankle strap is cut off at an angle and the cap strap is separate to the ankle part. They come in fluoro yellow which us a bit like polishing a turd.
Im still not impressed with them, wouldn't mind betting they eventually release a non flow high back model with caps in a few years.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Double post
Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Mon 27-01-14 21:28; edited 1 time in total
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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stab,
Just the hybrid with an improved toe strap from their 2012/13 range by looks of it.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Never saw the hybrid from last year. Like I say I don't pay them any attention, just wandered past them at ispo on Monday and had a quick look on my way out.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I like my APO bindings.. straps and ratchets when you want them, toe caps and rear entry (oo-err!!). i like to think best of all worlds... but each to their own...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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chrikoff,
Had APO's but the material on the main strap flaked away & looked shite; APO sent replacements & these went the same way . Nice step in action but quality no where near the flows (the high end ones I mean); also slightly easier getting in using the flow as not pratting about with toe cap/strap.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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What was looking positive at ISPO if you were,nt looking at flows ?
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Split boarding was again a huge theme, more so than the last few years, almost everyone is making a split board now. Nitro have 3 in the line, kills me to be looking at skis.
Burton and Salomon picking up ispo awards for their split boards. Its a theme that I'm resisting but Jones boards seem to be the only company growing when all the rest are standing still or reducing. I guess boarders are getting older
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Just changed my rented straps for flows while in St Anton. Hurt my back on first day and with too much of a belly, was struggling to buckle up without lots of pain. First time I've used them and I'm a convert! A bit of faff at first, but great now I'm used to them. Now I am waiting for the kids to buckle up.
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Sarge, so... they're best used by the invalid and the portly, much like the electric mobility scooter...
Actually i'm just razzing, I'm keeping a half-lookout for a set to try when I'm at the snowdome, try and speed up the process a wee bit.
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