 Poster: A snowHead
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Sophie Butler, author of this article, says:
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| I spent last week tracking down the best insurance for a family skiing trip and, as usual, it was an unnerving experience. |
Maybe she could have benefited from a quick search through the snowHeads archive. Here are some of the points she makes:
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| The cost of a medical evacuation from a piste, combined with treatment for a broken leg, for example, could cost well over £4,000 - but most policies will pay nothing like this amount. |
Is that correct?
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| ... many insurers will only provide cover if equipment is stored in a locker or locked onto a roof rack. |
Is that correct?
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| One expert guide estimates that some 90 per cent of skiers in Tignes and neighbouring Val d'Isère went off-piste last season. Not necessarily very far - perhaps just to get a taste of the deep snow - but far enough to invalidate their travel insurance. |
Is that correct?
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| Expect to pay around £50-70 for year-round cover with winter sports |
Is that sensible, given the above?
Frankly I'd question the opening sentence of this article. If Sophie Butler spent a week researching that article, she might have been better served by getting her butler to spend a couple of hours on the task.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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The following policies:
BMC Alpine and Ski, Ski Club GB Superclub, Snowcard Multiski Seasonal
All pay pretty much what it costs to evacuate and treat you. I'm surprised that Sophie found UK policies that did otherwise. A lot will require you to have your Health Passport (ex E111). Europe policies don't cover much in the way of medical insurance because most people carry additional private health insurance. We don't all benefit from the excellent NHS.
I can't comment on Val d'Isére and Tignes but some research in France shows that around a third of skiers go off-piste in the big resorts (including between the pistes skiing). The 90% figure sounds too high to me.
Her best point concerns itineraries (as opposed to unpisted runs) - they are off-piste really aren’t they, if your policy doesn't include off-piste you are not covered. Places would be the Courchevel Couloirs and parts of the SPOT at Tignes.
There is a very simple rule for insurance of any kind – if it doesn’t say you are covered you are not. If in doubt phone your insurer to discuss what is covered then send a fax to confirm your discussion well in advance of your trip.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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David Goldsmith, I've just renewed Carte Neige for a season, a bargain at 135 Euros for 4 of us.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I've been looking into this as my annual is up for renewal and found Direct Travel seems to offer the best combination
- off piste cover (any ok in Europe but must be with guide outside resort boundaries in North America)
- no ambiguities re 17 days skiing per trip. I assume most policies that do not specify (just say - up to 17 days winterports) mean an annual allowance and on this basis have avoided them if I've been planning more - can anyone confirm?
Price not too excessive£70 or £80 if I input my data correctly
I know this has been looked at elsewhere but does this sound right?
Anyone found similar to compare?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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In my view she is obviously clueless about the subject matter and spent around seven seconds, not days, researching this. She's clearly got the medical evacuation bit totally wrong and I won't treat anyone of you like a dunderhead by explaining why.
Re off piste - I can't see any insurer having a prob with someone venturing slightly off piste providing that they are still within the accepted ski area boundary and have adhered to local advice re avalanches etc - most policies allow for off piste anyway and the definition of off piste can be so flakey that they would end up paying out.
She may have a point re skis in lockers etc... again it is about definition. Leaving your unlocked skis in the rack in the unlocked ski room is technically leaving them unattended and they might argue that you made it too easy for them to be stolen. In my experience they'd pay out (maybe not in full though) but I think all insurers are getting very hard about unattended skis outside restaurants.
I think the guide price for an annual multi trip for the whole family (with wintersports, inc off piste and "proper" limits for equipment) is more likely to be £100 - £130 or more.
I don't know about anyone else in here, but I now question just about everything I read in the national press about skiing and boarding. The info is often misleading, sensationalised, plain wrong or the result of some blatent freebie (so why should we trust it). The quoted sources are always the same retailer or SCGB - Plain lazy journalism. It's a credit to everyone on this forum that IMO it is the best source of unbiased, up-to-date, generously offered info there is... and everyone paid for their own trip!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Thanks, John. Would you like the cheque made out to 'John Hill' or 'JohnHill'?
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| JohnHill wrote: |
Re off piste - I can't see any insurer having a prob with someone venturing slightly off piste |
I can.
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This carte niege thing sounds a good bet...
Is this valid for all the alpine countries? Valid for racing and off piste? Where do I find out about it??
Any help would be great.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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David Goldsmith, I'm obviously subject of an in joke. Anyway, consider it a freebie. Who the hell is the other JH?
davidof, I'd be interested if you can point to any case where an insurer has refused a claim when someone has been just off-piste. As most policies now allow off piste (although some of the definitions are a bit restrictive) I think they'd find it impossible to refuse a claim.
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If you define a piste as a groomed area of snow, then an interesting question arises if a few inches of new snow create no obvious boundary between piste and off-piste.
This thing of excluding off-piste skiing from insured cover does seem a bit draconian - I can't imagine there's that much difference in risk between people seriously wiping out (or being hit) on a piste than having a nasty accident off-piste.
As you suggest, JohnHill, insurers ought to take a reasonably relaxed attitude to something (a bit of off-piste play) that's inherent to enjoying the sport. Obviously, going way beyond pistes, into risky terrain could be another matter (and maybe involve costly rescue).
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Jake: Carte Neige isn't full travel insurance, it's more like a skiing supplement to existing health/travel insurance to cover rescue/recovery etc It can be purchased by the day/week/season/year etc at ski pass offices for a start - the resort tourist office should be able to help over email (or just google for it). For a more general policy I would second the 'direct travel' recommendation. No problems so far and a couple of minor claims...
If carte neige fits with what you already have though its a very good deal, and well recognised in france at least (never skied anywhere else!)
Has anyone ever claimed for skis stolen from outside restaurant/tack room btw? Did they pay up? It's the only area I think is a little grey in my policy - just wondering if anyone has 'real world' experience with this..
aj xx
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| JohnHill wrote: |
I don't know about anyone else in here, but I now question just about everything I read in the national press about skiing and boarding. ! |
You want to read the media reports on climbing issues!!!
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Scarpa, any sport involving potential freebie gear and freebie travel attracts the wrong kind of journalism I'm afraid. I'll pass up the opportunity to read about climbing thanks. Can't picture myself in colourful tights whilst trying to defy the gravitational pull of my wallet, Bentley keys and stomach.
What gets me is how openly done it is. Every time I read one of those "top ten best" resorts, chalets, bits of kit, business class airline seat etc etc I'm busy trying to spot the writer's pet freebie item. The resort of Vaujany and tour op Ski Peak must be totally awesomely amazing as Peter Hardy manages to mention the two together in just about every general or "list style" article he writes (I'll never use either as a result). Other writers manage to continuously mention (read: recommend) the same retailers for boots, skis etc. Some people read this stuff and part with hard-earned cash on the back of it. It's wrong, it's always been that way but forums like this will hopefully change things fast and for the better.
In the case of this thread though, the writer in question simply hasn't done her homework and I reckon it shouldn't have taken her more than a few hours to trawl the web, ask a number of experts and bang out a useful article. Would be great if we could get her to comment though eh?
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You know it makes sense.
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Obviously JohnHill is right (and apologies for the stupid joke above), though the irony is that if a writer does enough freebies they can actually start to form an objective basis of comparison between ski resorts - if they're so minded.
The Sophie Butler insurance article above shouldn't be confused with the 'freebie journalism' phenomenon, though - it's simply a very poor piece of writing, giving inaccurate advice on a very important subject.
What we're observing, maybe generally, is a breakdown in the funding of journalism. Perhaps weak articles appear in newspapers because newspapers are running out of money ... because people read them for nothing on the internet.
The internet itself is hardly free of corruption, but at least it's easier to spot!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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ajhainey, JohnHill, Snowcard specifically cover gear (inc hired) left outside restaraunts on the slopes (no-one else mentions this - and frankly if it's going to get nicked, that's where it'll go from!)
Oh, the wording (last year) was:
"This exclusion does not apply to skis left unattended during the daytime for the purpose of obtaining refreshments."
They also cover off-piste as 'standard' snow cover but bump you up a level to cover snowparks. I've had enough experiences of insurance companies weaseling out that I would fully expect them to try if you had an accident where you got hit or just lost control on a bump and went off the edge of the piste into a tree or rocks. The tree/rocks are not on the piste are they?
As for:
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| Expect to pay around £50-70 for year-round cover with winter sports |
at that price I'd add:
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| But expect to fight hard for and probably not get any compensation |
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Poster: A snowHead
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lbt,
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As for:
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Expect to pay around £50-70 for year-round cover with winter sports
at that price I'd add:
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But expect to fight hard for and probably not get any compensation
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Spot on. Cheap insurance is only good if you have the kind of medical claim that requires the insurer to settle directly with the hospital (ie you're injured!). Otherwise, expect a long fight if you're trying to claim for your snaffled skis!
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FAQ
