 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi,
Sorry for another helmet thread.
I think everyone should be able to make their own mind up about helmet or not but I have a few friends who always bang on at me for not wearing one. I was playing golf with one of these yesterday and he nearly got hit in the head with a golf ball. I said jokingly he needs to wear a helmet as it was such a dangerous sport and he said don't be so ridiculous nobody wears helmets for golf.
I cant see why hes so concerned about wearing a helmet snowboarding yet would never consider one for golf which Id imagine is actually more dangerous then snowboarding (Ive certainly come a lot closer to getting hit in the head than when Im skiing)
So, any smowheads out there who golf and religiously wear a helmet? why for one and not the other?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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medlington, how many people are killed from head impacts every year while playing golf?
I know one person who has a head injury from playing golf, and ironically a helmet would have done nothing to prevent the injury - he was hit in the chin.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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on this website it says in America alone in a 1 year period there were 8,417 traumatic brain injuries from golf which I would imagine is higher than from winter sports.
http://www.brainandspinalcord.org/brain-injury/statistics.html
There are many ways to get injured from being hit by a ball or club to falling out of a buggy.
Personally I know 2 people whove been badly hit by golf balls, one who has permanent brain damage as a result. I dont know anyone whos had a serious brain injury from skiing
im surprised that the helmet manufacturers arnt trying to push them on golfers but realy Im interested in the people who have such a strong veiw when it comes to snow based activities but would never dream of them for golf.
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| Mistress Panda wrote: |
| medlington, how many people are killed from head impacts every year while playing golf? |
People get killed by lightening strikes playing golf. Perhaps there's a market in wearable lightening conductors?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| dogwatch wrote: |
| Mistress Panda wrote: |
| medlington, how many people are killed from head impacts every year while playing golf? |
People get killed by lightening strikes playing golf. Perhaps there's a market in wearable lightening conductors? |
haha, this is kind of my point though, you can fall over and hit your head doing pretty much anything so why do people only wear helmets for skiing?
Maybe if a celebrity golfer gets struck by lightning ala Schumacker/Richardson then they would make them (if possible). Incidentally my day knows 5 people who've been killed this way but I think thats just coincidence and doesnt reflect the true average
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| medlington wrote: |
| dogwatch wrote: |
| Mistress Panda wrote: |
| medlington, how many people are killed from head impacts every year while playing golf? |
People get killed by lightening strikes playing golf. Perhaps there's a market in wearable lightening conductors? |
haha, this is kind of my point though, you can fall over and hit your head doing pretty much anything so why do people only wear helmets for skiing?
Maybe if a celebrity golfer gets struck by lightning ala Schumacker/Richardson then they would make them (if possible). Incidentally my day knows 5 people who've been killed this way but I think thats just coincidence and doesnt reflect the true average |
Many sports require/recommend wearing a helmet ie Horse riding, cycling and yes some sports do not such as golf and yes it can be pretty dangerous try driving a golf ball collector at a driving range when everyone there thinks your great target practice and you soon realise the forces involved. But other scenarios you need a life vest for sailing but not for fishing yet people drown every year after falling in while fishing.
I think a lot is to do with the image of a sport people need to start viewing wearing safety equipment as normal and until then anyone who does will look out of place.
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Golf is a different culture to skiing or for that matter cycling. I suspect if it was odds on that you were hit once a year on the course then still no golfer would wear a helmet. Just isn't cricket.
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Best wear safety glasses/goggles too, if you have to hit out of the bunker.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Are there any SH's then who wear a helmet for skiing who wont for golf and is your only excuse for not wearing it for golf that 'it isnt the culture of golf'? just that my friends say its all about safety and not what other people think so I feel they are hypocryts as this is in direct contrast to just doing what the culture of the sport is.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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if you are hit by a golf ball when it is really travelling fast (ie fairly soon after it has left the clubface) you are standing in the wrong place. remedial action - stand in the right place
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| Arno wrote: |
| if you are hit by a golf ball when it is really travelling fast (ie fairly soon after it has left the clubface) you are standing in the wrong place. remedial action - stand in the right place |
And if you hit your head on a rock while skiing, remedial action, dont fall over. Why havent all the helmet wearers thought of this?
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You know it makes sense.
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' Need stout boots on the course too, none of these namby pamby golf shoes - As a 'lad' I had an encounter on a golf course in the States with a King Snake... Luckily he legged it rather than seek revenge.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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medlington, I think you have muddled your facts taken from the link above .. http://www.brainandspinalcord.org/brain-injury/statistics.html
The article starts by discussing traumatic brain injuries, but the golf related stats relate to head injuries in general. So, although golf might account for a fair number of head injuries I suspect the number of serious injuries is extremely small. A fair few nasty bruises, split scalps etc. but happily life threatening/limiting injuries are few.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Arno wrote: |
| if you are hit by a golf ball when it is really travelling fast (ie fairly soon after it has left the clubface) you are standing in the wrong place. remedial action - stand in the right place |
Unless it's me swinging the club, then nowhere is safe. 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| foxtrotzulu wrote: |
medlington, I think you have muddled your facts taken from the link above .. http://www.brainandspinalcord.org/brain-injury/statistics.html
The article starts by discussing traumatic brain injuries, but the golf related stats relate to head injuries in general. So, although golf might account for a fair number of head injuries I suspect the number of serious injuries is extremely small. A fair few nasty bruises, split scalps etc. but happily life threatening/limiting injuries are few. |
ah yes I may well have although I would have thought that head injuries sustained golfing would be just as serious as head injuries sustained skiing so it still is relevant to my point. Both of them will be from the head hitting a hard object, although with the golf the hard object in question will be traveling at a much greater velocity than a person falling over and hitting a rock, there will be more weight involved with the skier crash though.
Also the injuries from golf will be more random, by that I mean the actual person injured will have less control over them as opposed to a skier where they will have a split second to anticipate the crash and try to adopt a brace position which should then offer more protection to the head rather than just getting twatted out of the blue while not expecting it.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| medlington wrote: |
| on this website it says in America alone in a 1 year period there were 8,417 traumatic brain injuries from golf which I would imagine is higher than from winter sports. |
If you bother to check this, then at least read link you put there:
| Quote: |
Falls and being struck or striking an object frequently occur during sporting activities. According to the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission, during 2007 the following numbers represent an accurate estimation of the number of sports related head injuries seen in hospital emergency rooms:
Winter Sports (Skiing, Sledding, Snowboarding, Snowmobiling): 16,120
Golf: 8,417 |
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
Id imagine right next to the pin is the safest place, much like with me
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last time I played (a very very long time ago, and it will stay that way), the safest place would be anywhere more than about 15ft forward of the tee.
my claim to fame is wacking the ball on a par 3 pitch+putt course, getting the ball to hit the wire of a telegraph line that crossed 15ft down range, bounce off the wire, and end up in the rough 30ft behind the tee.
I gave up there and then.
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jogi, Now we need to know relative participation rates. I would hazard a guess that golf has a fraction of the participation hours of skiing (I know noone who plays golf) but without those numbers number of admissions to emergency rooms is meaningless.
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Anyone who is trying to argue that it is more/just as important to wear a helmet playing golf as skiing/snowboarding requires hitting on the head with a golf club.
I know the snows gone/going guys - but are we really this bored? Lol.
*Puts on Tin hat awaits backlash* 
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johnE, it's just from statistics Medlington put here himself, and then claiming 8000 head injuries in golf is for sure much higher then from winter sports.
But considering winter sports are not really most wide spread sports around, I would assume percentage number of injuries vs. all players/skiers or something similar, would be much higher for winter sport then it's for golf. But on that link there's nothing like this, so this sort of "statistics" is pretty much useless, except if you want to know number of people with head injury 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| johnE wrote: |
| jogi, Now we need to know relative participation rates. I would hazard a guess that golf has a fraction of the participation hours of skiing (I know noone who plays golf) but without those numbers number of admissions to emergency rooms is meaningless. |
Yes Id agree, when I posted the OP I was just interested in the hypocritical nature of people who are so keen on them for skiing but laugh off the idea for golf or any other mildy dangerous activity. The first poster asked about how many people got those injuries so I just did a quick google and found that so only skimmed it for a figure. My reasoning for the OP is just based upon my experience rather than actual statistics just because as Ive mentioned I have a few friends who just wont let it rest that I ski and board without a helmet
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| AthersT wrote: |
Anyone who is trying to argue that it is more/just as important to wear a helmet playing golf as skiing/snowboarding requires hitting on the head with a golf club.
I know the snows gone/going guys - but are we really this bored? Lol.
*Puts on Tin hat awaits backlash* |
So you recon if I smash you round the head with a golf club or drive a ball into your face your going to be much better off than knocking your head on a rock?
fancy trying it out and seeing if its such a stupid idea?
how many times do rocks come flying across the slopes without warning?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| jogi wrote: |
johnE, it's just from statistics Medlington put here himself, and then claiming 8000 head injuries in golf is for sure much higher then from winter sports.
But considering winter sports are not really most wide spread sports around, I would assume percentage number of injuries vs. all players/skiers or something similar, would be much higher for winter sport then it's for golf. But on that link there's nothing like this, so this sort of "statistics" is pretty much useless, except if you want to know number of people with head injury |
I think youve used some artistic license there, if you read again, Id say I imagine they are higher NOT for sure they are higher, but hey, whetever fits your agenda
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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medlington, I can see what you are saying about it being hypocritical, yet as someone who plays golf I have never come across any serious head injuries, except when my brother stood to close to his mate when he was about 9 in the back garden. (eye injury - hit with the club)
If you don't have a reason not to wear one then personally I reckon it to be something akin to - "I cross the road where I like, I know there is a safe crossing there but I won't use it."
So yes you may never get a head injury but you are definitely more at risk if you don't wear one. Also do you not agree that statistics relating to the amount of head injuries to skiers/snowboarders are lower because people wear helmets.
EDIT: Actually whilst in Ischgl recently I saw a number of rockfalls over the week and there is one particular piste that it is an almost daily occurence. The rocks aren't huge but would certainly sting if they hit you on the head.
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| AthersT wrote: |
medlington, I can see what you are saying about it being hypocritical, yet as someone who plays golf I have never come across any serious head injuries, except when my brother stood to close to his mate when he was about 9 in the back garden. (eye injury - hit with the club)
If you don't have a reason not to wear one then personally I reckon it to be something akin to - "I cross the road where I like, I know there is a safe crossing there but I won't use it."
So yes you may never get a head injury but you are definitely more at risk if you don't wear one. Also do you not agree that statistics relating to the amount of head injuries to skiers/snowboarders are lower because people wear helmets.
EDIT: Actually whilst in Ischgl recently I saw a number of rockfalls over the week and there is one particular piste that it is an almost daily occurence. The rocks aren't huge would certainly sting if they hit you on the head. |
Do you wear one skiing then? and have you ever experienced any serious skiing related head injuries?
As my experience is the opposite to yours, I have come across serious golf related head injuries but none skiing or snowboard related. the only conclusion to draw is that serious head injuries do happen in both sports but are thankfully quite rare.
but if I say to my mates that Ive never come across any injuries then why should I wear a helmet then apparently Im stupid but if they were to use the same excuse for golf then its a fair acceptable point.
Interesting about the rock falls in Ischgl though, never thought about that happening.
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You know it makes sense.
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medlington, Yes I do wear one as do my friends - no one out of the 10 or so people I know that Ski/Board have had a serious head injury - though I know of plenty of occasions especially ones reported in the public domain.
This is kind of the point though - there are less head injuries because of people wearing helmets. If no one wore a helmet for a year there would be a large increase in injury (generalisation I know).
Aren't most of the golfing head injuries just what you see on hospital tv programmes - "14yr old boy hits ball at friend" type of thing lol
Also just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean they have an 'agenda'.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| AthersT wrote: |
medlington,
This is kind of the point though - there are less head injuries because of people wearing helmets. If no one wore a helmet for a year there would be a large increase in injury (generalisation I know).
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There is one school of thought that contradicts that theory, in that many / most people are to some extent more 'gung ho' when wearing a helmet.
There may in fact be more incidents because of that , but less HEAD injury because of the helmet. Doesn't take into account OTHER injuries caused by the increased confidence and risk taking when wearing a helmet.
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Poster: A snowHead
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allanm, I was sloppy and left out "head" doh! Yes there is that school of thought - but then again I still go as fast and have the same technique as when I was 13 and I'm 26 now. lol. I will grow up one day
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| AthersT wrote: |
medlington, Yes I do wear one as do my friends - no one out of the 10 or so people I know that Ski/Board have had a serious head injury - though I know of plenty of occasions especially ones reported in the public domain.
This is kind of the point though - there are less head injuries because of people wearing helmets. If no one wore a helmet for a year there would be a large increase in injury (generalisation I know).
Aren't most of the golfing head injuries just what you see on hospital tv programmes - "14yr old boy hits ball at friend" type of thing lol
Also just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean they have an 'agenda'. |
I agree that just because people dont agree with me they dont automatically have an agenda but that post from him had misquoted what I had written or atleast put 2 and 2 together and come up with 16 so was quite clear they were approaching it from a certain angle.
Im quite sure I read the other year that the number of head injuries hadn't decreased with the increase in helmet use (not certain of this) but people were saying that in real terms it had as so many more people were taking up the sport. I guess youd have to compare it to the number of head injuries in say the early 90's to make a good comparison.
just for arguments sake if the figures were identical would you wear a helmet for golf, even if no-one else did?
I see what your saying about the type of 'casualty' accident but dont agree, you get a lot of injuries from people teeing off over blind tees or behind trees etc
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
I would hazard a guess that golf has a fraction of the participation hours of skiing
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An improper fraction, I'd guess. Very top heavy. Loads of people play golf, all year round.
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^^ Golf, the fifth most popular participation sport in the UK. I'd guess that skiing has a negligible rate of participation (hour for hour) in relation to golf.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I'm usually pretty "anti-helmet". But I've got to say skiing helmet has nothing to much less to do with marketing than just ... popularity!
When I started skiing a couple decades back, I didn't wear a helmet, nor did anyone else. And I was often cold wearing only a hat.
Then, I saw snowboarders on the slppe and some of them were wearing helmets, and it looked to me rather a good solution to my cold head. But nobody was wearing helmet on skis and I wasn't able to find much choice of helmet in shops either. Not being a pionneer of any sort, I continue to ski helmetless and cold.
One day, I decided to try learning to snowboard, and got my head wacked a few times. I REALLY REALLY wanted a helmet for the rest of the day. Fortunately, they had helmet for hire...
Once I got a helmet on my head, I wondered how I managed to ski for so many years without one! The rest, as they day, is history...
What's my point? Helmet was most useful by snowboard learner. (once you get good enough, it's less likely to fall on your head) Once a learner got used to wearing one, it function as a warmer hat so well, many continue to wear one past learner stage. Skiers caught on and start wearing helmet as a warm hat too.
Unfortunately, once it became "popular", some helmet nazi decides to take it upon themselves to dictate that others should do what they do! 
Golf helmet would be rather hot most days.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| AthersT wrote: |
| This is kind of the point though - there are less head injuries because of people wearing helmets. If no one wore a helmet for a year there would be a large increase in injury (generalisation I know). |
No one wears helmet skiing until the 90's. Yet I never heard of head injury back in those days.
| Quote: |
| no one out of the 10 or so people I know that Ski/Board have had a serious head injury - though I know of plenty of occasions especially ones reported in the public domain. |
The "report rate" of head injury in skiing in public domain is much higher because it's "fashionable" to talk about it.
Until this thread, I never heard of serious injuries getting hit by a golf ball! Much less getting hit on the head. Granted, I don't golf.
Still, a lot of non-skiers only heard of head injury skiing because the Natasha Richardson. It'll take a celebrity getting hit by a flying golf ball to get everyone's attention.
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OK, if anyone's got the patience here is my pseudo scientific explanation for why it's not necessary to wear a helmet for golf:
Head injuries usually boil down to two main types.
1: Penetrative, where the object fractures or penetrates the scull - I haven't tried modelling this one as it's too complex for my little brain and I would have thought it pretty unlikely too given the bluntness of a golf ball.
2. Inertial, where the impact causes the brain to 'rattle' within the scull causing tearing, bleeds, bruising and swelling. This is certainly the main risk with skiing. Let's look at this in more detail......
A golf ball leaves the club face at approx 59 m/s (when struck by the average club golfer). It weighs 45g or less. When it reaches the end of its flight it is typically travelling at around 22m/s. That means that the ball leaves the club with around 80 joules of energy and retains about 9 joules when it lands. (Better to get hit by one as it lands than just after it's been struck!)
A human head (4.5kg) skiing at a speed of 50 mph (22 m/s) has approximately 1089 joules. A skier pootling along at 25 mph would still be carrying c.280 joules.
So, my amateur conclusion is that a golf ball simply does not carry enough energy to be a significant risk.
Please feel free to pick holes in my feeble physics.
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| speed098 wrote: |
| But other scenarios you need a life vest for sailing |
You need one for dinghy racing, certain keelboat/yacht racing and sailing on some inland waters where it is stipulated by the landlord. Windsurfers virtually never use them and most yacht sailors don't use them most of the time.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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No one here's compared risks and decided what to do: this isn't a rational choice in that sense, which is presumably what the OP's point is.
I would guess that if golfers wore full-face MIPS helmets in their cars driving to and from the course then the number of lives saved would be even greater than wearing helmets on the course.
I don't know anything about golf, but I suspect you'll need a dead celebrity or two to kick things off. Oh, I see someone else made that point.
Oh, I wear a helmet but not a life vest for windsurfing. You get bangs on the head all the time when you get things wrong. My teeth are implants or I'd have chin protection too.
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| Quote: |
No one here's compared risks and decided what to do: this isn't a rational choice in that sense, which is presumably what the OP's point is.
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But I think people have weighed up the risks and came to a rapid, and pretty accurate decision that helmets did not pass the risk/reward test.
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FAQ
