Poster: A snowHead
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I bought some skis in February, from Ebay, they sounded too good to be true, and of course they were!
The description was pretty good:
"I'd describe the condition as good. The bases are in excellent condition ... These have been used for ~3 weeks but as I'm an instructor I'm not always on the same pair of skis all week every week. ".
So, I was prepared to pay top second hand wack for such a pair of Head Titans (2012 model) and went up to £250 for them.
When they arrived the tops were not quite as pristine as I expected, but maybe an instructors pupils are a bit brutal? The bases were heavily well waxed by the seller and so you couldnt really see anything but they looked pretty good. First use in the PdS, I loved them, and in perfect snow nothing showed up. But....
Next use was in Tignes, end of April. A few rocks around then, as you would expect, but not too much of a problem for my mates Salomons who has nothing to show. But, my Titans suffered badly... Gosh how thin the base looks.....
I took them to our local outdoor centre ski maintance expert (a man who can work miracles with bases in my experience) and he declared them to be "unrepairable" (but is having a damn good go). In his opinion these skis have been very "well used" and have been planed to the end of their life. The bases are so thin now that really they are at end of life.
I'm not quite sure how a ski that has had the base planed so much doesn't show any other repairs, these things happen IME, but when I got hold of them they didnt show anything I could see (but maybe the heavy waxing obscured it?)
So, I've never been had before, but it seems that now I have. If you do buy second hand skis, beware, IME you can't really see how shot they are until its too late.
P.s. I love Head Titans, if anyone wants to sell any 170 or 177 I'm needing a pair - provenance would need to be verified!!!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Quite common for shop monkeys to grind the living poo-poo out of bases to " fix" a few cosmetic scratches. Never have a machine stonegrind unless the ski is seriously destroyed already is my motto. And even then find a shop that skilled locals trust.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Sorry to hear andyrew,
Some good advice for Ebay (for anyone) if you must insist on paying top wack for ski's first message the seller for more info, and photo's ( this will give more detailed description of the ski's condition and will bind the seller more to the buyer protection ). Secondly make sure you can collect and insist the skis are not waxed. If you can not collect and must have them posted always bid with the view that the description may should we say be rather flattering of the condition.
Even if you have won an item if you collect and not as described walk away.
If they are waxed have a scrapper to remove the wax if seller des not want you to do this again walk away. Bid's/sales are binding BUT! only if as described.
Better still there are plenty of crazy bargains out there, and you can pick up spare sets of ski's for dryslope/fridge use for well under £50 ( sometimes as little as £1 ) so consider them and save up for new ski's for your hols. take the cheapies for bad snow conditions but also as a different type of ski ie if you mainly ski powder have a set of great piste ski's to knock around on.
Re the base being worn from too much grinding it does happen some people think it is the only way to sharpen the edges and some shops will happily take their money after all when the bases are gone they may well get to sell these people a new set of skis ready to repeat the process.
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Ouch, hard lesson. I'm future always ask how many times the base had been machine ground....
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I bought a pair of ex-demo Fischer RC4's on eBay from a shop in Austria.
Looked immaculate on delivery and I was very pleased with the knock-down price for what looked like an almost new ski. They lasted me 3 days til I took a rather large fall on a ski-cross course only to stand up and find one of the ski's had developed a noticeable tail rocker. There was no damage to the top-sheet or base but obviously something inside had gone very wrong.
Now, I can't say for certain that that damage didn't occur when I fell but I've had much much worse stacks and never snapped a ski. My feeling is that they probably had an issue before they were sold which I just didn't notice til I'd pushed them a bit myself. With a new pair if have been back to the shop for a replacement under warranty but that's not an option with second hand. From then I decided just to buy new and pay a but more for the piece if mind a warranty brings. Once bitten and all that...
A couple of years later I picked up a brand new version of the same ski in an end of season sale for about the same as I'd paid for these ex-demo's. Still going strong!!!
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We're these not up for sale on here too op? Looking at my old posts I was interested in some around the same time. I've bought a few pairs a second hand skis one that were ex rental that have served me very well and some that were only used for a demo day indoors. I guess it's the risk you take going second hand with anything and in hindsight with my ex rentals I got lucky and probably wouldn't do the same again.
In your situation however it is a bit rich claiming they'd only been used for 3 weeks!! As an equipment novice though would it not be obvious on delivery they were more than 3 weeks old if the bases had been ground to the point they were knackered after a further 2 weeks use? Im thinking the edges etc too or is this not the case? Would the base not be a bit concave?
When I've bought skis from Ebay I've took them for a once over to get them checked out that way if they were absolute dogs then I could return them and and have the ammo for a refund. I guess with the time lapsed plus you've used them you'll have no come back from the seller?
Certainly a cautionary tale to anyone considering buying second hand skis.
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andyrew, Cautionary note (I buy and sell skis on Ebay), my suggestion is to buy as near as damn it new, if not brand spanking new!
Ebay has some great bargains, but also a melting pot for dogpoo. But also there are some fantastic bargains if you are flexible enough.
Do your homework on the skis you want. Check out the photo's in supersize if poss. Ask the seller to email photos of edges, top surfaces, and especially bindings front/rears.
The bindings are the mileage indicators, and also of the spec-quality. Never buy a pair of skis with under-specced or over used bindings.
There are a couple of traders selling ex-rental skis+bindings, they usually have supersized pics, and HD quality photos really do show the actual wear on a pair of skis. These can be best buys out of season, say the summer months.
Have as wide a range of skis you would like to ski on as possible. and remember, you can always resell on ebay to recoup any expenditure.
As a rule.... only bid 80% of your anticipated highest bid. That ensures that you never over-bid or become over enthusiastic in bidding.
BTW.............. £250 can get you some great skis with minimal use.
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Hi All,
Unless it's a massive coincidence it was me that sold these skis on Ebay.
They were for sale on here also with a much more detailed description however looking back through my posts I must have deleted the post once I put them on Ebay as per forum rules.
I can't get access to the original add, however I did have dialogue with several SnowHeads about them which will offer some back up one member came to view them-but I talked him out of the sale due to them being IMO too short for him.
It is true that I'd used the skis for 3 weeks as described-however they were not only 3 weeks old! This would be clear from the condition the top sheets and bindings were in. The buyer did not take the opportunity to ask me questions etc prior to buying them where ad aside could have got more of a feel on the background and usage of the skis.
I assumed after not hearing from the buyer that he was happy with the skis on delivery and did not hear anything else until last week-over 3 months later. I accept with skis you may not use them straight away unless you have access to an indoor slope or are going on a trip immediately to make a fair assessment-but you're buying something second hand that's the risk you take.
I've sold many sets of skis over the years-several to Snowheads and not had any issue. For what it's worth I wasn't trying to deceive any potential buyers I made my own personal assessment on the condition, advertised and sold them. I'm not a ski tech but the bases seemed absolutely fine to me prior to the sale-I waxed them up and hand tuned the edges.
It is indeed a case of caveat emptor. There will be countless cases of cars, fridges, TV's, phones, etc etc going wrong a few months after the sale-no doubt some sellers will have been aware of the defects prior to selling them-I was not. My point is when buying/selling anything second hand there are risks involved. If you don't want the risk you buy new and pay the premium and know the exact history of an item.
I could have posted anonymously, or not at all but I thought it was worth telling my side of the story as I'm an active member of the forum and I'm known to several Snowheads. I feel bad that they buyer feels deceived, and further more is a Snowhead.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I did not see an advertisement on snowheads before I bought the skis.
The ebay advertisement, from which I bought, reads:
"I'd describe the condition as good. The bases are in excellent condition while the top sheets have superficial scratches as you'd expect from a used ski. These have been used for ~3 weeks but as I'm an instructor I'm not always on the same pair of skis all week every week. "
From that description how long would you think the skis had been used (total time)?
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andyrew, If that is what the ad says then I'd understand they had been used for three weeks in total.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Not suggesting that this is necessarily the case here, but I recently had a shop tell me that my board had "been base-ground too many times, it's too thin to repair" on a board that was brand-new, never serviced.
Some kit does have a thinner base (often high-end kit which is sold as being "light"). Some shop guys don't know what they're talking about.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Also not suggesting that it's happening here, but as with builders and mechanics, it's the easiest trick in the book for a shop-monkey (thanks, I'd forgotten that term!) to affirm a client's negative opinion by slagging something off if he hasn't done it himself (the fun starts when he's told that whatever pair of skis or repair he's just criticised was sold or performed by one of his own colleagues...).
Anyway, I can't speak to the Heads as haven't worked with them for three years now, but I mount lots of skis every December and some are so thin they would be lucky to survive a season. I wouldn't expect this from a seemingly premium ski such as a Supershape, but who knows with all the cross-brand fabrication now.
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Grizwald wrote: |
One member came to view them-but I talked him out of the sale due to them being IMO too short for him. |
Hey that's me!
Fair play to you coming on here offering your side of things.
I went to have a look at these as they were fairly local to me-saw the ad on here not Ebay. Even to my untrained eyes there's no way these had only had 3 weeks use-no way. However when I had a look at them the bases hadn't been waxed, and looked fine-no deep gouges etc and appeared serviceable. I won't rub salt into the wound by saying how much the seller wanted for them either but I guess that's the thing with Ebay at auction, you bid what you're willing to pay as a buyer and put a reserve on them as a seller or start them off at a price you'd be happy with-did these have either just out of interest? Regardless I wouldn't expect any seller to turn around and think, 'you know what my stuff sold for more than I wanted or expected so I'll refund the difference.'
I'm not having a go here OP if it appears as such just playing devils advocate, but it sounds like you've been a bit naïve going into this and not paying due diligence. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but with buying on Ebay you could have took them into a shop to get a better/professional appraisal then sent them back if they were knackered? The general consensus from the replies on this thread is do your homework when buying second hand skis. As I was after some similar skis there were a couple of pairs around at the time that were advertised as used but with minimal use these were more in the £400 + range though. Did you ask for pictures, ask questions prior to placing a bid as the seller states you didn't?
There's two points of view here, one that the skis were mis-advertised and had more use than stated. The seller says he can't retrieve the add to confirm or deny this-I have some PM's when I was first interested asking the sorts of questions others have mentioned. I was told a similar story but also that he'd picked them up second hand. So OP on receiving these did you not take a look and think these aren't only 3 weeks old? I'd have sent them back there and then when you at least had the come back with Ebay-my experience of Ebay is they heavily favour buyers when it comes to this sort of thing. That's part of the appeal of buying from Ebay- especially for second hand stuff you have some come back, if you buy out the paper, car boot etc you don't.
The seller did indeed talk me out of buying them as when he saw my height and size said as much. Doesn't strike me as the actions of someone who'd try to tart them up to hide the amount of use, all just my opinion of course.
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You know it makes sense.
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Quote: |
There's two points of view here, one that the skis were mis-advertised and had more use than stated. The seller says he can't retrieve the add to confirm or deny this-I have some PM's when I was first interested asking the sorts of questions others have mentioned. I was told a similar story but also that he'd picked them up second hand. So OP on receiving these did you not take a look and think these aren't only 3 weeks old? I'd have sent them back there and then when you at least had the come back with Ebay
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Thankyou for your wisdom. I have the Ad, I have quoted the Ad above, I have the full html of it saved. Of course, I was not the only person who was taken in by the description as two people were bidding against me and the last dropped outjust £3 below my maximum. I saw the auction rather late and so didnt have time to probe as much as, in hindsight, you say I should. Yes, the surfaces did look just a little more tired than I expected, but maybe they'd been stored for a while, hence the grubby look? The edges and what I could see of the base looked ok at the time and it would have been very hard to justify a claim of foul play at that stage without any real evidence, just on an uneasy feeling. Oh, and I don't have a shop, around the corner to wander into when I feel like it.
The description as stated clearly had a few who mistakenly believed it:
"I'd describe the condition as good. The bases are in excellent condition while the top sheets have superficial scratches as you'd expect from a used ski. These have been used for ~3 weeks but as I'm an instructor I'm not always on the same pair of skis all week every week. I also own the Head Supershape i Magnum which is virtually the same ski but a little narrower and more piste orientated. The Titans have the same turn radius whilst offering a bit more versatility."
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Quote: |
These have been used for ~3 weeks but as I'm an instructor I'm not always on the same pair of skis all week every week.
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I would infer from this that the skis had had a maximum of around 3 weeks use from new. I don't see how anybody could be expected to guess that they had had far more use than this. If the seller meant that he had used them for 3 weeks, having bought them second hand, he should have said so.
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Poster: A snowHead
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andyrew, always buy new but a season or three old off eBay 'cos would you believe it, some people are a bit less than . . . shhhhhh . . . .'honest'
there are fantastic bargains around for lots of last year's kit.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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A good rule of thumb for Ebay purchases.
Like new = very good to excellent.
Excellent = very good
Very good = good
Good = ok or nearly trashed
Ok or average = completely trashed
If you use that as a general rule when bidding you at least will not overpay. Not every seller is honest and not every honest seller knows enough about what they are selling to give accurate information, or can not test items ie in this case how thick a base is, or in the other case mentioned are there any underlying issues not visible ie internal damage.
For the original seller to admit they are the seller on here does not strike me as the actions of a dishonest seller, yes the description is a little mis-leading I would read it as under 3 weeks use, the seller should have pointed out that they bought them secondhand.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Bene, I saw the eBay advert andyrew purchased from and can confirm there was definitely no 'by me' in there. It clearly stated 'these have been used for ~ 3 weeks' and there was also definitely no indication the seller hadn't bought them new. Whether deliberate or not the advert was misleading.
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Quote: |
Whether deliberate or not the advert was misleading.
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Exactly. I think it's worth asking eBay for their interpretation.
I have just bought an ice cream maker on eBay - just unpacked it, and on the face of it the motor is barely working (it's a machine I am familiar with, and bought one on eBay to be able to use my old freezer pot thing, as it is v useful to have two. Now I have to contact the seller - such a ball-ache.
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pam w wrote: |
Quote: |
Whether deliberate or not the advert was misleading.
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Exactly. I think it's worth asking eBay for their interpretation.
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Way too late, has to be done within 30 days I think.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Yes that's the one. As I said above it clearly states the skis had 'been used for ~3 weeks' and not that the seller had used them for ~ 3 weeks having bought them pre-used .
So this:
Grizwald wrote: |
It is true that I'd used the skis for 3 weeks as described |
is not actually what was described in the advert at all. The advert says they'd had a total of ~ 3 weeks use.
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Quote: |
Way too late, has to be done within 30 days I think
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A shame - but maybe if the seller agrees his description was misleading he'd be willing to make a goodwill offer and reduce the price?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Agreed intended or not it's misleading.
Just Googled and it looks like 45 days for raising issues on ebay.
pam w, That ducks but you should be protected by Ebay.
One thing this thread is teaching me I'll think twice before buying anything second hand off Ebay!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Bene, I'd happily have bought a new one, but they're not made any more. My original machine lasted ages, and made loads and loads of cheap and delicious ice cream! Many people buy them, then scarcely use them, so in theory there could be plenty of good second hand ones about.
My son in law buys and sells things off ebay, including windsurfing gear - sails and similar - with no problem, normally. But yes, there are obviously risks.
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pam w, You're making me want an ice cream that's for sure!
Agree with your statement about risk. I guess it's up to the sellers conscience if they feel the need to give a refund etc-what goes around comes around and all that.
Then again if they were procured second hand and did only have 3 weeks use by the seller to the OP, there could be a chain of people trying to get some of their money back.......
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You know it makes sense.
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The advert is misleading that is clear from reading it. But there are signs that should have made someone ask more questions.
If the Bases are excellent and the tops only have superficial scratches then why is the condition stated as only being good ? They are at best a 2yr old ski so from the write up should have been described as at least very good if not overall excellent condition as after all a few superficial scratches are not a major issue.
There is no mention of them being bought secondhand by the seller so it is reasonable to presume that the skis were bought new by the seller and had less than 3 weeks use in total after all he even mentions a similar ski he uses which adds to the minimal use.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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eBay and PayPal's dispute thing is useless. After whatever process you might go through, if the seller has already emptied their PayPal account the buyer gets nothing back. I had to go to my credit card company to get refunded when I was ripped off.
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Poster: A snowHead
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I'd take free legal advice from the CAB, and then make a small claim against the seller in your local county court. Assuming the poster here was the seller, then you have all the evidence you need to prove the original sale was fraudulent.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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andyrew, I would have thought you have a strong case for the small claims court. The description was clearly fraudulent from what you have said. Disappointed a fellow SH might have behaved like this.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Blimey, if they are 'good' I'd hate to see what condition a lesser description would warrant.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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musher, wow, I'm shocked that they are been advertised as good condition. "Repairable Condition" would suit.
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Out of interest I sent the buyer a message asking what the size patch would be required to fix? His answer was that the skis have a little rust and that I shouldn't but if I'm advanced but would be good if I'm a beginner.
Damn there are some bad ebay sellers out there.
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Dot. wrote: |
...Damn there are some bad ebay sellers out there. |
I hope the bidders had a good look at the pics, instead of relying on the description, and maybe just want the bindings.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Car auctions are different Bene, But with the OP I fear no case could be brought now asthe argument would be what damage/issues were present at point of sale and what are from usage while on holiday.
With the Elan ski's I would report the seller to Ebay now they are not as described and better Ebay end the auction than pay out under the item not as described clause. Also if you look at the last pic the ski on the right is the one with the damage pictured but it looks like the left ski has damage near the ski brake as well.
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