 Poster: A snowHead
|
| kitenski wrote: |
@skimottaret, have you and Rob done these yet??  |
Ha. Excellent question!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
I don't that the side plank is that much different to a full plank. The toughest element in the fitness test my gym does is the continuous tuck'n'punch jumps, usually measured in number completed in either 30 or 60 seconds.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
1.5 miles is about 2.5km, I'd imagine most people can do that in 15 mins
@skimottaret, I presume you are going to force us to do all these exercises on Sunday ? 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
Yeah I am kinda wavering on having a side plank in. In our full fitness tests we do front, right & left side planks plus prone back extension and a V sit to test core stability but the front plank is a good general measure. Perhaps the side plank is a test too many for this level of testing.
not sure what tuck and punch jump is but the box jump is a plyometric test and coupled with the vertical jump is a good measurement.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
@Little Martin, No not part of the Clinic but not a bad idea to start getting fit for L1 exams
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
Plyometrics before every clinic?! OMG! 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@Hurtle, ummm no plyometrics on our clinics ... Just off for 25 miles on me bike though !
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@skimottaret, phew! Happy pedalling.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
I'm in favour of the side plank for ski specific fitness, and had planned to use it more for training. The thinking being that lateral strength/stability is very important in performance skiing, but may not get developed in many other training situations.
Just back from an enjoyable couple of hours doing my own favourite cross training activity: windsurfing. The effort includes a mix of side plank and something like an inverted front plank on an uneven surface at speed, fun too 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@balernoStu, hmmm a vote in favour, good to hear... 28 miles in the end for me on a near flat rear tyre. good for fitness but hard going think wind surfer would be more fun !!
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
@skimottaret, biking definitely good for fitness and burning calories.... Just off for a 67 mile early Saturday ride...
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Quote: |
Hi guys, Have amended the tests and dropped pull ups and the 500M row and added a side plank. Have another look at the link from above before having a go. Have fun
|
Bah. You mean the 500m row I went all-out on last night was for nothing?! Oh well, good to know I can still manage a respectable time. On the plus side, dropping the pull ups has saved me finding my bar: I took it down when we moved house 10 years ago and still haven't got round to putting it back up.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
@sarah, there's nothing that says you have to put your real name on the results, so I'd share them even if you don't want to take credit for them. I'm guessing @skimottaret would like to get a reasonably representative set of data.
I have a similar "regime" to yours but without the specific focus on leg strength, and a couple of pilates sessions added to the mix - those have for me made far more difference than anything else as I've always struggled with flexibility and isolating movements.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
@kieranm, if you have your data for the 500M row I can add to the main database, I just decided that we at IOS won't be using that test but I am hoping to open this up to other ski schools and at least one will be using it so will be included in the master database.
Sarah, We will not publish names or emails, Only ask for an email address so we can auto confirm your entries with you and to then share reports and results once we get enough data.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
RE- BASI Level 3 Mountain Safety : Crampons and "Ski-Crampons"/ Harscheisen.
Surely "Crampons" are heat treated steel spikes fitted to boots for ascending or descending use by climbers on hard ice.
In contrast "Harscheisen" (literally harsch - rotten/structureless snow, eisen - irons') are serrated aluminium plates fitted to touring ski bindings for use in ascending rotten snow slopes, or breakable crust.
The French word for them is "Couteaux" (knives) which is an accurate word. They do need to cut right in to be effective.
They aren't of much use on solid ice because, being made of light alloy they are too soft, and won't penetrate serious ice.
When used on impenetrable ice they simply prop up the boot or the ski (Depending on the type), taking pressure off the ski edge just when you need it most. - Not great in high winds. Twice I have had to turn back on an ascent because my companion insisted on using harscheisen in a gale, and couldn't stand up on the icy slope as he was teetering on his "irons". Basically, I've found that they're useless on solid ice, they bend/ distort/ break and become a problem.
"Boot-Crampons" and "Ski Crampons"/ Harscheisen - These are two very different tools and I think it's important to understand the difference in the nature of them and the use they should be put to.
Also, I think many skiers are misled by the words.
"Ski-Crampon" => Crampon. Crampons are for ice climbing => Ski-Crampons must be for ascending hard ice. (I don't think so.)
"Harscheisen" => sounds a bit like they'd be good on eis. (No. The eisen means "irons", not eis as in "ice" cream.).
I'd be interested to hear if anyone else sees it that way. Any feedback from recent BASI courses?
If anyone has any more information about the types and options in fitting harscheisen, that would be interesting.
e.g. what they're good for, when to put them on, types (fit to ski, or fit to lifting binding-under boot/ fit in front of boot, flip-up types).
I've only ever tried harscheisen with skins. It could be a big advantage on undulating terrain if they could be used without skins - simply flipping them under when required to climb.
What I've found in non-expert club groups is that there's a big assumption that you must have them for safety on ice, but then people put themselves in danger when they get to a steep bit of ice and then try to fit them, compromising everyone in the line below -- especially if they have to take off their skis to fit them..
On the contrary, on steep, hard ice: trust your skins and edges. Skins should not extend over the steel edge. Then when it gets icy, you can do a steep-traverse on your edges, or sidestep using the edge to grip. It's that edge that will be your friend on a sheet of ice. Ski-"Crampons" that prevent you edging, or getting pressure down on the soles of your skis will be ineffective or just plain dangerous.
I would only use them on breakable crust, or rotten, end-of-season snow.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
"Ski crampons" are the same thing as "Harscheisen" / "Couteaux" (the german / french word).
As you say not to be confused with normal crampons - which go on your boots rather than ski bindings.
| SkiPresto wrote: |
RE- BASI Level 3 Mountain Safety : I've found in non-expert club groups is that there's a big assumption that you must have them for safety on ice, but then people put themselves in danger when they get to a steep bit of ice and then try to fit them, compromising everyone in the line below -- especially if they have to take off their skis to fit them..
On the contrary, on steep, hard ice: trust your skins and edges. Skins should not extend over the steel edge. Then when it gets icy, you can do a steep-traverse on your edges, or sidestep using the edge to grip. It's that edge that will be your friend on a sheet of ice. Ski-"Crampons" that prevent you edging, or getting pressure down on the soles of your skis will be ineffective or just plain dangerous.
. |
Nope.
Have to disagree with all of that.
When skinning up steep / icy terrain it is much safer and more efficient with ski-crampons fitted.
Often ski-crampons might stay in your rucksack - however the times that you actually need them they are essential.
As ever crampons should always be fitted before you actually find out you need them
If it gets *really* icy then you might even switch to normal crampons and hike, rather than skin.
Note : if your heel is free (touring mode) then you have reduced control over the edges of your ski in event of a slide / slip.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
I gave @skimottaret's fitness test a go earlier but forgot the side plank I'm afraid. It was fun, so I'm hoping there is a follow up, and that the rest of you are giving it a go. My children really enjoyed doing all the measuring, timing, and telling me what to do and had the brainwave of using the climbing frame for my pitiful attempts at pull ups which means my pull up bar can remain in the cupboard for a few years longer.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
@kieranm, I have printed them off and got a piece of coloured chalk and a tape measure ready, I will do them this week  Wish I'd known about them a few weeks ago, already a good month into my summer training.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
@kieranm, never too late to do a side plank
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Just been 'out planked' by my wife 
We started at the same moment and I caved first. Fortunately for me I made up ground on the side plank, with times on each side being about half what we did on the front plank.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
Hi all, after discussing these tests with a few other coaches and trainers I have decided to do two versions of tests. A quicker basic test and an a extended version that will assist in developing fitness programmes. Haven't yet finalised all the tests for the extended version but am open to comments. The extended version is aimed more at those training for higher level instructor exams or racing.
Basic Ski Fitness Tests
record year of birth and gender
Front Plank
Vertical Jump
Right Side Plank
Broad Jump
Box Jump overs (small 25cm box) in 1 minute
1.5 Mile Run
Extended Ski Fitness Tests
Record height, weight, year of birth and gender
Front Plank
Vertical Jump
Right Side Plank
Broad Jump
Pull Ups
Dips
Press Ups
? Single leg squats each leg
? Illinois test for agility
? Lateral Box Jumps onto 40cm box in 1 minute (instead of jump overs)
1.5 Mile Run
? Hamstring Flexibilty test
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@sarah, good effort on the wall squats. I'm quite used to being second as she's way fitter than me, I'll view it as encouragement rather than competition
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
@skimottaret, I'm yet to be convinced that single leg squats are good for knees..................
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
@kiteski yeah I tend to agree hence the ? mark Some of these tests come from Alpine team selection tests and I am less and less convinced of merit. In the process of trying to finalise these and have gotten a lot of feedback... Single let squats , pull ups 40 cm box jumps and traditional dips are OUT and will be testing some ideas tomorrow with my physio...
will most likely take out side plank from basic test and add left side plank and bridge to extended. May change the box jump overs to using a ski pole instead of box, Dips will be a modified version and possibly add mountain climbers or lunge jumps and an agility test.
will write these up better, at the moment very poor descriptions and I will be putting together video for performing each tests showing good form and failures.. Thanks for all the feedback !!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@skimottaret, IMHO I'd go back to basics and work out what you are trying to test for, and then come up with efforts to test what you wish to test in relation to skiing.
Are you testing for anaerobic, threshold or VO2 max ??? Or something completely different? A random load of numbers ain't going to help ..... My kid can out plank anyone on snowheads and probably most of the elite skiers (as a pretty good county standard gymnast) but she ain't a GB standard skier....
My Bike FTP has gone up from 218w in Nov to 250w in May but no idea what that means from a skiing perspective, so horses for courses....
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
@kitenski, yup that is why I ended up with three increasingly detailed versions of tests and want to keep it as simple to do as possible with minimal to no equipment. Have had input from coaches and physios and reviewed other testing procedures for team selection and ski fitness books I rate.. still working it all out and using SH's a bit as a chalkboard
The expanded tests hopefully will indicate areas to work on and to develop ski related programmes plus allow for some comparison against norms. VO2 max for instance isn't hugely useful for GS skiing or Instructor Tech exam week prep but vertical jump peak power is.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
@skimottaret, good to hear, I was being deliberately provocative on VO2 as an example as to how tests couldn't actually mean much as a ski instructor....However I do note many BASI trainers also cycle a lot and that is where VO2 max becomes interesting....
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
| Haggis_Trap wrote: |
"Ski crampons" are the same thing as "Harscheisen" / "Couteaux" (the german / french word).
As you say not to be confused with normal crampons - which go on your boots rather than ski bindings.
| SkiPresto wrote: |
RE- BASI Level 3 Mountain Safety : I've found in non-expert club groups is that there's a big assumption that you must have them for safety on ice, but then people put themselves in danger when they get to a steep bit of ice and then try to fit them, compromising everyone in the line below -- especially if they have to take off their skis to fit them..
On the contrary, on steep, hard ice: trust your skins and edges. Skins should not extend over the steel edge. Then when it gets icy, you can do a steep-traverse on your edges, or sidestep using the edge to grip. It's that edge that will be your friend on a sheet of ice. Ski-"Crampons" that prevent you edging, or getting pressure down on the soles of your skis will be ineffective or just plain dangerous.
. |
Nope.
Have to disagree with all of that.
When skinning up steep / icy terrain it is much safer and more efficient with ski-crampons fitted.
Often ski-crampons might stay in your rucksack - however the times that you actually need them they are essential.
As ever crampons should always be fitted before you actually find out you need them
If it gets *really* icy then you might even switch to normal crampons and hike, rather than skin.
Note : if your heel is free (touring mode) then you have reduced control over the edges of your ski in event of a slide / slip. |
Totally with Haggis_Trap here. Pure sidehilling isn't too bad even on steeper icy slopes, but kick turns are a different matter... And sidestepping with the heel loose isn't very efficient at all.
I've only used them once, on Gran Paradiso this spring, but there's no way I'd have got to the top without them: 120mm wide skis and early morning re-frozen snow are not a good mix when it gets steeper. Kick turns were terrifying before I put the crampons on. Using them for the whole ascent does get pretty tiring though, as you have to (or at least I found) lift the ski much more on each step to reduce drag.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
Little fitness bump... Have finalised the Basic Fitness Tests and tried to improve the descriptions and video links. Only a few people have entered results. Come on you L3 wanna be's record a baseline for the coming months... It only takes around 30 minutes (I know as I have done it a few times ) My general fitness is below where I need to be come the winter and it has given me a little wake up call... Even if you don't take the test any feedback on the instructions would be welcome.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
@skimottaret, I'm planning on giving this revised version a go sometime in the next few days.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
@kieranm, you have already been a good boy I have a few little things to work out on the extended version and hoping to get some feedback from a few other race coaches, stay tuned.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
Getting back to skiing found some slo mo video of a bunch of current L3's training last year. Pitch was a steep red sorta black in places, poor snow very lumpy with base ice in places coming out. task was performance shorts at highest possible speed down the hill.
https://vimeo.com/129537895
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
Some level 4's in that video now
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Indeedy! (did two gals pass? , just thought Hels did) when you gonna look at those extended fitness tests http://www.insideoutskiing.com/extendedfitness.php i sent you keep thinking a run is too long and could be better done with a killer set of mountain climbers or burpees or something similar to test your own cardio..
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
@jjc, Cool didn't know Ali got it as well, nice one !! I was really pleased for Amy she really worked hard as well.
will stay tuned for your comments on the fitness tests and make sure to link any L3 blogs or ideas here...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
For me things like burpees are too intense to test aerobic fitness. I find it hard to do more than a minute or two of them (perhaps I'm just going too fast). Mountain climbers would be better, but both are a long way off what I'd call an aerobic exercise: something I could sustain for a long period of time with an elevated heart rate. Running might not be everyone's cup of tea but I think it fits the bill well.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
