 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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what an embarrassment to sport, and what a poor ambassador, what a poor role model, and clearly, what a poor EX Skier!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Smallzookeeper, perhaps he will transition to Freeride competitions. Instead of an embarrassment then he would become a role model rebel and radical skier for speaking his mind.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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CH2O, I'm not so sure, there was a lot of poor decisions by the BOC/Selectors when it came to the snowspoerts disciplines this year, and the support for the traditional disciplines such as downhill, slalom super G etc is virtually non existant currently, these skiers spend an awful lot of time training and getting fit plus they have to raise funds (usually sponsorship) to cover all their efforts, when the UK governing body spits in their faces I can understand why they feel embittered and make it public.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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CH2O, I presume that was all tongue in cheek! If not what are you talking about?
Do you know anything about BSS and all the goings on at the federation?
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D G Orf, More than aware mate, I have a sports management business that looks after many of these issues and athletes.
Plugboy, Enough, thanks.
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| Quote: |
| "Organisations are required to set a high bar for qualification. That bar is often set way above the international body's own criteria," BSS chief executive Dave Edwards explained. "But the British Olympic Association consensus is to send people who are going to compete right at the top level." |
I see the Olympic spirit is safe in their hands 
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Sorry are we right here, is the principal to send the best Britain have, rather than those that can actually compete for honours? If so, then if a certain level is not achieved it should be available to people to go, but at their own financial risks.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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CH2O, For the Olympics, the best we have in each discipline. If central funding is an issue then athletes should be able to go at their own expense*.
World Championships would be a different criteria.
*Personally I don't think public money should be used full stop. The FIS and the Olympic is in receipt of more than a few quid in TV money which should find it's way back to fund attendance by Athletes. After all, no Athletes, no TV.
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What does compete for top honours even mean? Most sports wouldn't be a lot of fun if only the top contenders entered - a premier league of 6 teams, Wimbledon starting at the quarters, no need for group stage in the World Cup, TdF of 4 teams,100m events restricted to Jamaicans and US?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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AndAnotherThing.., I thought that one of the complaints about the policy for the World Championships was that it wouldn't have cost BSS anything.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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So send the best we have, in every discipline? That could be costly, no matter what the revenues. I have a little experience in this field, that experience tells me, If the Athletes do well, it's all down to talent and endeavour, if the Athlete doesn't it's the management's fault. I'm not sure how much it would have cost to send this chap and all his expenses, it would seem that it was too much for his finances or that of the Managing body. Either way, I'd suggest if it means that much to him that he feels ready to retire(hahahaha) then i question his commitment, I know plenty of skiers working in all sorts of jobs to cover their travel and expenses, this kind of effort is often then rewarded by sponsorship deals.
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rjs, Is that so ? Hard to see the reasoning for not sending them ?
CH2O, My understanding for the Olympics is that some Athletes were prepared to pay their own expenses but were blocked from attending by the powers that be. So when I say 'Send the best we have' I mean that if the Athletes can fund it then they should be able to go.
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You know it makes sense.
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With the old guard retiring and Baldwin quitting early, who are the up and coming talent in the UK Alpine disciplines?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| CH2O wrote: |
| Sorry are we right here, is the principal to send the best Britain have, rather than those that can actually compete for honours? If so, then if a certain level is not achieved it should be available to people to go, but at their own financial risks. |
..what like the England football team???? or the cricket team.........????? they tend to cost dramatically more!
oh and BSS and SSE still managed to send the obligatory 'management' to Sochi. 
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Poster: A snowHead
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The criteria for the next World Championships look about right to me.
I guess this will provoke a bit of debate.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I guess this is all a bit too personal for some people, and sort of too personal for most of others, as skiing fans, to look at this with at least a bit of reality. Thing is not really money. I assume UK can afford to send one, or 10, more people to Olympics. But it's more about fairness. There it criteria set, and this criteria has nothing to do with criteria Thailand set to send their skier to Olympics. And in case you don't know or you managed to forget, there were skiers left at home, who had results this kid could only be dreaming about. Anyway, normally it's NOC which sets these limits, and normally they set it with more then one sport in their mind. So if they send someone, who might somewhere on place 50 in World cup in some minor sport like alpine skiing is, then what they would do in summer, where they have 1000s of athletes being 100 times better in sports that mean much more then alpine skiing? Send all those 1000s or 10.000s in Rio next time? I doubt it would go. So yes, it's tough life, but if not going to Olympics is reason to quit at 23 (or is he 22?), then well... I agree with CH2O... it's his commitment issue, not someone else problem.
iskar, sure football costs more, but try to check how much will England's football federation get from FIFA just to qualify for World cup and to play those 3 matches there I'm pretty sure you will find out, they made huge business sending those 20 guys to Brazil
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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CH2O, jogi, You obviously know nothing about TJ or what he actally does or has achieved.
It is an insult to him to say that he lacks committement because he retired at 23. He was the most committed Alpine racer out there from Team GB. Just ask any of the coaches or people who are in the sport about how much effort and hard work went into every single day of training.
He has been full time on the GB team since he was 16. Thats 8 years spending 9 months away from home each year training and racing all over the world trying to be the best in GB and one of the best in the world in Downhill & Super G. All paid for by sponsorship, donations & fund raising and from my pocket!
The sponsorship all came from how he had [performed and because of his committment, ask the sponsors!
He did not just give up because he did not go to the Olympics, that was a small part of it. There were numerous other reasons too.
He missed out on going to Vancouver as a Junior by less than 1 sec. He was not sent to Sochii missing out by 0.3 secs over 2 races! He would have had bib 33 in the Downhill, 34 in Super Combi & Super G. All these start numbers were lower than both the other Alpine skiers that were sent! BSS have treated him disgracefully (as well as Dougie Crawford) He has had no financial support at all from BSS for 3 years, just a clapped out old van to drive the 20,000 miles per winter season in the alps to all the races. He has often had to drive 6 hrs to a race himself prep his skis, train, race and then drive back again all on his own, because BSS gave him nothing.
He was ranked in the top 15 in the world in Juniors too (U21) and even the Austrians tipped him for a medal at the WJC's, (illness put paid to that)
Don't compare the rankings to Freestyle/Slopestyle as there are far fewer guys doing the tricks than do Downhill/Super G/Super Combined in Alpine. Just look at the World ranking lists. It is much harder to get in the top 100 in Alpine than the top 30 in Freestyle.
Don't Put up completely false accusations about lack of committment when you obviously know nothing about his situation. Or anything about Alpine skiing!
If you are GB No1 and top 100 in the world and would have started just outside the top 30 at the Olympics he should have been sent, but that aside He has every right to tell the truth about how he was treated by BSS.
If you want to know anymore about wy he retired or what BBS did for him then PM me.
Yes I'm his Dad and finacial manager of the GB Men's Alpine Speed (DH, SG & SC) Team - As BSS did not even run a programme for them.
By the way GB have more Men in the top 100 in the World rankings in Alpine skiing (3) than we do in Tennis (1), and there are roughly the same number of guys on the rankings list.
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Richard_Sideways, Jack Gower & Charlie Raposo. Both on their own multi thousand ££ private programmes. Both have publically said that even if BSS had a programme for them that they would not go on it as it was so poor! BSS have no programme or pathway. Butv they will take the glory when they get the results.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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jogi, Please tell me which Alpine skiers were left at home from GB with better results than TJ. Enlighten me.
All the different Snowsport disciples had completely different selection criteria for the Olympics. Some were much easier than others.
The criteria fromt the BOA was to be a medal prospect or to finish in the top 2/3 of the field. Blatently this did not happen in a number of events in the Freestyle category or in Cross Country. In One of the Snowboard events we sent 2 guys who came 35th & 38th out of 39!!
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CH2O, Tell me who the skiers are that would get the sponsorship with a little hard work. He has put huge effort in over the past 8 years. Do you really know what it takes to actually get onto a world cup Downhill programme or to even ski the Birds of Prey course, or the World Champ DH course at Garmisch? You are talking complete BO****ks!
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| Plugboy wrote: |
All paid for by sponsorship, donations & fund raising and from my pocket!
Yes I'm his Dad and finacial manager of the GB Men's Alpine Speed (DH, SG & SC) Team - As BSS did not even run a programme for them. |
That's exactly what I wrote, a little bit too personal, to consider some other possible point of view.
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| jogi wrote: |
| Plugboy wrote: |
All paid for by sponsorship, donations & fund raising and from my pocket!
Yes I'm his Dad and finacial manager of the GB Men's Alpine Speed (DH, SG & SC) Team - As BSS did not even run a programme for them. |
That's exactly what I wrote, a little bit too personal, to consider some other possible point of view. |
or maybe i your case no Knowledge of what is actually involved??
you make a ridiculous point about sending 1000's to the olympics, we are talking about sending someone who has made the level at which many of our summer olympians would be sent ie the ioc qualifying criteria.
The underlying point is that a lot of the alpine fraternity perceive a bias in the BSS management toward alpine as basically they dont understand it. This has been further entrenched with the Malcolm Erskine debacle.
pointy bits to the front......... 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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iskar, maybe it would be good, not to be so trigger happy dismissing people as complete clueless outsiders, based only on few posts in some forum. Maybe some people have a lot more knowledge about skiing and racing, as you would expect.
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jogi, Ok, from your knowledge of ski racing how would you suggest that a 23 year old can find the money to fund a World Cup speed programme ?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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The same way any Athlete with a profile that would interest a sponsor, chicken and egg.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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CH2O, TJ did raise enough sponsorship through his profile to run his World cup programme for 3 years. Over £55k last season, from Sponsorship, donations and fundraising. That was not the issue, it was the way he had been not supported by the governing body at all. Being told to do things that were totally against what his coaches wanted from the performance director who can't even ski and was writing his programme 2 months after taking post! Etc Etc Etc.
jogi, What is your role and knowledge of ski racing then? Having been in the Alpine racing world for 12 years I may actually know you? If you have been involved in it for a while?
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Plugboy, Don't feed the troll.
Best of luck to TJ.
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You know it makes sense.
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rjs, as CH2O wrote, same way as anyone else. Unless you live in Austria, and even in Austria things are changing, you need to present results first, and only then expect money will start to flow in. Until then, you, or actually your parents, are paying for this, everywhere on World. I certainly agree you can't win World cup without proper funding, but you can get to results which are interesting for sponsors without having Austrian budget. There are many athletes who proved and are still proving this, either be single athlete or whole small(er) federations. Considering what Plugboy, wrote, funding was not even issue, as with £55k in last season, I know many teams with smaller funding and a lot better results. But it's not my thing to make someone's mind here. Plugboy, no you don't know me, as except few chats with TJ on lifts from time to time, I have nothing to do with GB skiing.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Right Plugboy, stop blowing your massive trumpet, you are part of a very small Orchestra, but well done for sticking with it. Now we can look at this very simply, was every discipline in the Winter Olympics represented by a British Athlete???? No, so somewhere, like everything in the modern world it has some economic ties, whether you believe this young boy should have gone, or should have had funds to go is at best irrelevant. There is a body of people that have to make these decisions, i'm sure hard at times, but they have been made. TJ is very young and with correct management, or some more experience, or hard work, he could get himself back in contention for the next WO. It is his decision to retire, and i'm sure he's miffed at missing this chance, at his time of life he will be deciding whether he really has a chance or whether he is better pursuing a career or studies elsewhere. It is not the BSS fault he didn't go to the Olympics, it's his fault, he simply wasn't worth the gamble on finances for a shot at success, that is what the BSS have essentially decided and have to do. Like TJ, every discipline has no doubt a British Athlete ready and willing to compete at the Olympics, we haven't heard from the Biathlon Athletes, the Mogul Skiers, the Ski Jumpers or any of the other fringe Contenders in these sports. Those we did support did well and showed that Britain is making progress in Wintersports, sorry to say that in the Alpine skiing we just don't. Well done all those that did make it, worked hard and bought back the glory, sorry, despite the romantic notions of old, the Olympics is a business, suck it up and stop bleating.
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Poster: A snowHead
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CH2O, While I'm fully with the idea that funding shouldn't be automatic even if you're best in the country at a discipline this isn' t really about funding it's about BSS/BOA turning down places for athletes who'd more than met qualifying standards. And it isn' t consistent between sports - just an example, not singling anyone out but Callum Smith finished 62 out if 68 in the skiathlon xc. Hardly top 2/3. Emily Sarsfield would have needed 1 good heat to be in the top 16 ( in a competition which didn't even fill all the slots).
Somewhere along the line there is something which smacks of hypocrisy in all the feelgoody 2012 hype about sporting legacy if the message is it's not good enough being best in the country and meeting qualifying STDs you need to try harder to actually represent GB because we're so good.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| this isn' t really about funding it's about BSS/BOA turning down places for athletes who'd more than met qualifying standards. |
Exactly! I can't understand why. Is there a rational explanation somewhere?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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maggi, I'm sure there is...just follow the money
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Dave of the Marmottes, If that is the case, I see the problem, If TJ was top rated and prepared to pay his way then why didn't he go???????
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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CH2O, because he had to have the backing of the BSS/BOA to do so and they refused to back anyone they did not approve, same reason for Emily, unless you are from a handful of countries (usually ones that are war torn) you cannot go indepentantly to the Olympics.
In Emilys case she was invited to compete by the FIS as one of the top 32 in the world able to race at the time of the Olympics, (she was ranked 34 but others were injured or unable to compete due to other reasons) but because the invite came after the BOA had named the team (and because they decided not to accept handback places) they refused to let her participate, this despite the fact that one good race would have put her in the top 16 and a couple of good races could have put her in medal contention, not impossible in skier cross with its high number of falls
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D G Orf, Seems like a simple situation to sort out
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I suppose that's what Malcolm thought 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Ermmm....correct me if i'm wrong, but weren't the athletes that didn't go to the Olympics like TJ, Dougie and Emily going to fund themselves anyway? I thought it wasn't about money? It was more to do with just not being asked to represent GB?
Again...open to correction.
I'm not into all this political mullarky, so I've never bothered looking into the BSS.
A few questions...
Who are these people that run BSS...who put them there....what qualifies them to say who goes and who doesn't?
Were they ever voted in by it's members?
Is it possible to set up another affiliation on the grounds that they don't represent what the majority want?
Maybe silly questions... I don't know...
As for funding... I feel for any Athlete in this economic climate.
A source of inspiration... Larisa Yurkiw... When dropped by the Canadian, she moved lock stock and Barrel to Toronto and went pitching for money..Quote..
More than four years later, hers is one of the most inspiring stories in the Canadian sporting canon. Struggling to get top results in her return from the knee injury, she was cut from a medal-focused national team in the spring of 2013. But she wasn’t ready to quit. So she essentially decided to work two jobs — along with training full-time to return to the World Cup circuit, she became CEO of Team Larisa. Injecting $25,000 of her own savings into her training fund, she singlehandedly raised another $100,000-plus, the fruit of a relentless series of pitch meetings with Toronto’s business community. She also hired a coach, booked travel, arranged and paid for lift passes — the minutiae most Olympians leave to support staff.
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spud,
Yup LY was an inspiration, and has made the team this year. I think egg on Canada Alpine faces.
Plugboy, TJ not considering skier cross?
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FAQ
