 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| kitenski wrote: |
| throwing this out there, what do snowheads consider as a deburr..... |
kitenski, you need to be more precise in your question as the two responses above from Magamum & Mosha Marc address two different problems.
There are two types of burr removal which are completely different:
Deburring is the removal of case hardened skiing burrs which project directly out of the line of the base edge angle & are caused by skiing on hard snow & clipping rocks etc. An alu-oxide stone (usually pink in colour) should be used on the side edge angle to remove them prior to the commencement of any work in the side edge. Removing case hardened burrs with a metal file or diamond file will fook your tools which is way the alu-oxide should be used as it's a low cost sacrificial stone designed to 'take' the damaged from the edge. Eventually the alu-oxide will become badly chipped/grooved etc & will need replacing but by always using it first your expensive metal/diamond files will last waaaaay longer.
A hanging burr is the burr created by sharpening/polishing the side edge & it projects out of the line of the side edge angle to 'hang' down over the base edge. As the hanging burr has been cut it is not case hardened & is easier to remove than the tougher skiing induced burr. There's actually two methods for removing the hanging burr which is why there are some conflicting opinions:
Method 1 (Basic method) - use a hard gummi stone held flat on the base of the ski - do not try to angle the gummi to the base edge angle. Note that a HARD grade gummi must be used as a soft or medium grade gummi will 'bleed' over the junction of the base/side edge & actually blunt it. A hard grade gummi, when held flat on the base of the ski, has just enough 'give' in it to 'mould' on to the base edge angle to remove the hanging burr but is not so soft as to bleed any further over to cause harm. Excellent results are easily achieved providing the hard gummi is held flat on the p-tex base & not angled on the base edge angle so it's a pretty idiot proof solution & which is why I have it detailed on my website.
Method 2 (Advanced method) - use a diamond file (usually 600grit) or an Arkansas stone, held flat on the base edge angle to remove the hanging burr - usually one continuous firm slow smooth pass will do it. This will then throw up some further extremely fine burrs which are then removed by single pass with a gummi held at 45 degrees to the ski base. Note that absolutely NO pressure whatsoever must be applied to the gummi otherwise the edge will be blunted. Hold the gummi very lightly between index finger/thumb & then sit it on the edge under it's own weight without any downward pressure. This method will theoretically get the best result but if any kind of pressure is applied to the gummi then all your hard work will be undone & you'd have been better off using the basic method. This is not the solution to use if you're a klutz with tools!
On my tuning lessons I always cover the basic method but I'm selective about showing the advanced method depending upon the student's ability with the tools & the level of performance they require.
Detuning is using any file/abrasive stone held at 45 degrees to the base to blunt the tips (& sometimes the tails) of the ski usually for an inch or two either side of the contact point, ie where the base edge angle & the side edge angle & the snow meet.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Fascinating - looking forward to booking that course, spyderjon.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Or you could buy a BurrBuster from spyderjon, which is the best one-pupose tool I have got
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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spyderjon, I have seen a couple race techs remove hanging burrs using a base edge tool set to the correct base angle and a diamond file. They do this after metal filing the side edges but before using diamonds on the side edge. In my experience if you deburr properly and use sharp metal files finishing with light passes using a fine file very little hanging bur comes up and a light pass with a diamond is enough. Seems to make sense to me and I have been doing that and getting sharper edges.. Any thoughts ?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Cacciatore, I would recommend spyderjon, ski tunning if you own ski's you get so much more fun on the snow knowing you've tuned them yourself. I did the basic course a few years ago. Looking to to a day course in the future.
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well, you, know, tools and all that,
My 1st season (far longer ago than I want to think about) I spent a couple of weeks skiing on a trashed pair of Atomic ARC Bionic GSs which had lost so much base that the edges had been rivetted back in. There was no longer enough metal to hold the base so for about 50 cms underfoot the edges, rivets and all were exposed.
They were quite nice actually in soft snow but you had to be very sensitive and subtle on hard snow as the exposed inside-of-the-edge-edge would catch a wee bit.
Looked sort of like this in profile _________________¦¨¨¨¨¨¨¦_¦ where _______¦ is base ¦¨¨¨¨¨¦ is a gap partially filled with rivets and metal holding the edge to the ski and ¦_¦ is the edge
So frankly, a slightly iffy tune isn't the problem...
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| peteski wrote: |
| Cacciatore, I would recommend spyderjon, ski tunning if you own ski's you get so much more fun on the snow knowing you've tuned them yourself. I did the basic course a few years ago. Looking to to a day course in the future. |
peteski aren't happy birthday wishes in order this week...? Was good meeting and skiing with you last week.
We're (a few of us) planning on heading to the Piste Office in the near future - already mentioned to spyderjon at the EoSB. With the increasing burden on Bootsie to keep the increasing volume of skis in top notch condition, it only seems fair to spread the load. She might well take on some of the cooking responsibilities with the free time.... 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Cacciatore, Thanks it was 29th, You will have a great day I'm sure, Looks like the Vodka party could become the tunning party lol
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| spyderjon wrote: |
...
Whitedot ship their skis with a label on them (which I remove prior to sale) recommending that their skis are detuned at the for about 100mm at the contact points but when I challenged them on this they didn't know how/why this came to be. There's probably not a ski on the market that combines such a wide tip with a tight radius as their Preacher & they ski superbly with full length sharpness.
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Unfortunately the lack of knowledge in most shops/techs is scary .... |
On snowboards the practice remains fashionable - there are thousands of web pages telling you to do it, for example. Burton used to ship boards with documentation recommending detuning, although technically they don't build piste boards (just park and powder).
It is interesting if the practice is essentially a hold-over from skinny-ski days, odd that it should jump to snowboards, which were never designed along those lines.
Personally I ride a Kessler piste-board with KST (patented goodness at tip and tail), so those parts of the edge have the same rights as the rest of it by design. For powder boards edges are really optional. Park people may have different requirements, but I'd expect a quick slide down a rail would be an effective "detune" for the whole edge.
Lack of knowledge: scary yes, unsurprising though.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| skimottaret wrote: |
| spyderjon, I have seen a couple race techs remove hanging burrs using a base edge tool set to the correct base angle and a diamond file. They do this after metal filing the side edges but before using diamonds on the side edge. In my experience if you deburr properly and use sharp metal files finishing with light passes using a fine file very little hanging bur comes up and a light pass with a diamond is enough. Seems to make sense to me and I have been doing that and getting sharper edges.. Any thoughts ? |
That way will work too & if you want/need to be very precise (say with a very shallow slalom base edge angle) then using a base edge angle guide is to remove the hanging burr is a good tactic. A hanging burr always needs to be raised but the trick is to make it as small as possible which is when all that's needed to remove it is a light pass with a diamond as you say.
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You know it makes sense.
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spyderjon, case hardening is usually the result of a chemical process that introduces additional carbon (or other alloying element) into the surface of a low carbon steel. Do you mean work hardening? {/geeky pedantry}
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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James the Last, work hardening/case hardening = same thing in my simple non geeky non pedantry head 
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FAQ
on steep slopes.
