valais2, I think the option of "course only" or "course + accommodation" would be good. Personally I would have no more concerns about doing an all-female residential course than I would doing a mixed residential course (i.e. not having done something like this before, I might find it a bit odd at first to be staying with a group of people I don't know, but gender of the group would be completely irrelevant); however, for whatever reasons, it doesn't sound like an all-female residential set-up is everyone's cup of tea.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I haven't had any skiing lessons for years (yes I know, maybe I should!). I can't say I have any preference as to gender of instructor or other lessonees. I happily ski with people of either gender and these days I mostly seem to ski with people who ski a lot better than I do, that's a lesson in itself.
However, I do work almost exclusively with men and I do find them a bit over-competitive. I realise this is a gross generalisation but it does seem to be a general tendency, as does the tendency for women to be a bit insecure about their abilities/confidence. Not quite sure how this applies to ski tuition but I think cautious non-confident skiers are a bit more likely to be women, and over-confident but under-ability lunatics are a bit more likely to be male.
When I go swimming I always choose the female-only sessions, mainly so that I can swim in the medium lane. The slow lane is just a bit too slow, but during the mixed sessions the fast lane tends to be very fast/fit men which moves the fast women to the medium lane and I'm not fast enough for that.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
For certain woman I can see an all girl group working as it rules out competitive males taking over the show.
Here's an example of an all girl group mountainbike camp ....
I generally don't like all-female coaching groups as I find they sometimes tend to focus more on the stereotypical woman characteristics (oooh cupcake break) and aren't the best environment to push yourself in. However all-female groups for various activities ARE very popular and I can see why they appeal and it is great to have female role models in the sport. That isn't to say I wouldn't go on an all female course though, if the course structure, course ethos, location, price and dates were suitable it wouldn't stop me booking it.
Actually, thinking about it - for something like MTB where I am NOT very confident, I would love an all female MTB skills weekend to get my confidence up in a low pressure environment. Something like snowboarding where I am confident I am happy to mix it up with the guys and push hard.
In January I was the only female in my group and I actually found it pretty tough going keeping pace all week with a group of guys who were physically stronger than me but I wasn't holding anyone up (just feeling shattered) and it wasn't a 'testosterone' environment, everyone was chatty, normal, nice courteous people and no one was particularly gung ho.
kat.ryb, yes, I think the appeal of an all-female ski clinic for me is quite analogous to that of QB's swimming (i.e. in mixed sessions she needs to swim in the slow lane, as she's not as fast as the fastest women who, in turn, are not as fast as the fastest men… this means her having to drop down a level from where she wants to be when swimming during a women only session). I ski for fun with men and women who are faster than me a fair amount - it doesn't bother me at all, in fact it's been good for me this season after I slowed down big time last year post ACL recon - but I would like to try the experience of being roughly on a par in fitness/strength/speed whilst I'm trying to focus on technique in a one-off ski clinic.
I'm NOT interested in something pitched at "nervous" women, with "come on ladies, you can be just as good as the lads!" pep talks, cupcake breaks, "helmet hair pamper zones", spa experiences and the like; I also don't assume in any way that male skiers who go on ski courses are over-competitive, over-testosteroned, monosyllabic meatheads!
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
I would imagine the main difference between all-female groups and other groups is that you don't all have to go to the toilet at the same time.
After all it is free
After all it is free
miranda,
Quote:
I would like to try the experience of being roughly on a par in fitness/strength/speed whilst I'm trying to focus on technique in a one-off ski clinic.
...which (I think) you've just proved you can find in a mixed clinic, without the downside of clichés of either kind!
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Pedantica, have I proved that? All the men I ski with are fitter, stronger and faster than me, and I am on catch up when I ski with them, even if I'm technically better than some of them.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
miranda,
Quote:
All the men I ski with are fitter, stronger and faster than me
Possibly, but that need not necessarily be the case in well-organised classes. I think you have proved (sort of )that it's almost always a mistake to generalize. In short, rob@rar's tailoring of tuition to individuals is the ideal model.
DB, the concept of going to the loo in a gaggle has always mystified me!
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
DB, the thing is, the chaps can - and do - get their little hosepipes out any time. The girls have to wait for a proper toilet - and if one is going to "go" it would be rude for others not to go at the same time, rather than stop the group a second time (and besides, loos on the mountain can be few and far between)
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
pam w,
Quote:
rather than stop the group a second time
Oh sure, if there's an enforced stop, then it's incumbent on everyone to go, so as to avoid another one.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
I like the element of chance in terms of the instructor that I end up with too. If you don't know at the outset that you will only get a lady instructor then there is always that slight frisson of interest that you might end up being taught by a drop dead gorgeous chap - which is always nice if it happens.
As with Pedantica, I also like being taught by rob@rar, whose teaching style works well for me.
NB. I'll leave it to folks to make any links between the above two statements that seem reasonable
Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much on Tue 22-04-14 13:45; edited 1 time in total
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Megamum, links? What links?
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Perhaps I'm mistaken... I thought it was true that the average man is aerobically and muscularly fitter than the above average woman. I want to do a course that focuses on moguls, off piste and the like, where I would class myself as a beginner technically… perhaps I'm mistaken there too in thinking that fitness and strength have any impact in these scenarios, but I know being a beginner standard piste skier - when you have little by way of technical skills, are tensing your muscles more, and falling over a lot - is a whole lot more knackering physically than being an intermediate standard piste skier… I'm not set on the idea of doing a women's only course, but I would expect to be generally on a par fitness/strength wise with your average female skier looking to do that stuff, but not with your average male skier.
Although I really enjoy skiing with my female instructor, I hadn't assumed that a women's ski clinic would have a female instructor… anyway, from the sounds of it Rob is hot stuff, which could get a little distracting
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
miranda, I plead the 5th at this point.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
miranda, I did an beginner off piste course with inspired to ski, think I was barely level 5 on their scale at the time and it was great. From memory there was me and one other women who was very good technically but had no strength or stamina and maybe 3 guys. I had no problems at all keeping up, we were all equally knackered and cr@p We had a day off mid week and I think the other women took it as a rest day but my boyfriend was there on another course so we skied together, probably something knackering knowing him. The guys on the course were not gung ho at all and I remember one being very timid.
I'm trying to think what the differences are between the mixed course I have done and the women's only course and it is a little difficult because they have been in different sports and I think I am a much better skier than biker. I think i just enjoy doing courses like this with women who are as into the sport as me as most of the time I am the lone girl in a group of guys so it's a nice change.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Megamum, nice try but I don't think rob@rar does free lessons
I remember having just morning lessons in Courch and there were a couple of ladies that kept wanting to stop for Hot Chocolate...thankfully our female ESF instructor just wanted to carry on so the girls quit her lessons - didnt turn up for the rest of the week...didnt even notify her. She didnt look too traumatised. We all got off some chairs and theyd told one lad they were off and to let the instructor know
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Careful folks, we all know how much rob@rar loves hot chocolate, not forgetting the crème Chantilly.
I can testify that, on the IOS course in Folgarida a couple of months ago, there were a LOT more cake stops in Rob's group than in Scott's! And I don't think the initiative necessarily came from within the (mixed) group. Thing is, of course, Rob is in excellent touch with his feminine side...
lynseyf, yes, you see, I think I might be that other woman but without the back up tool of being very good technically. I did a few of the local off piste routes with my instructor this season, and brought my husband along on one of them. We had to hike up for a while in our ski boots carrying skis; he very kindly took my skis for me and strode ahead, my instructor kept up with him fairly closely carrying her own skis, whilst I trailed behind carrying two sets of super-light poles
A lesson with Rob is sounding more and more distracting with each post from Megamum and Pedantica
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
miranda, don't get us started on what he gets us to do with poles.
After all it is free
After all it is free
miranda wrote:
… anyway, from the sounds of it Rob is hot stuff, which could get a little distracting
Only if you add a lot of Tabasco sauce.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
I've been on a women only course and loved it......although there were two 50 year old guys that ended up in our chalet which mixed things up a bit in the evening!
It worked for me but I appreciate it that it might not be for everyone. The instructor who ran it was careful to match us all in terms of our ability. We all got on really well, had a laugh and improved our skiing.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
RosieL, which course did you do?
Miranda unless you are a total weakling I really wouldn't worry. I do a fair bit of exercise but seem to be one of lifes naturally unfit people an I have come to terms with the fact I will never be fast no matter how much fitter I get. How do you feel after a day skiing all on piste? If you are fine with that then you will be fine with a days off piste which would be much slower and with more stops.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Quote:
Miranda unless you are a total weakling I really wouldn't worry
I agree. I did the easiski "intro to off piste" course and fell a lot, especially doing the descent in La Grave. More than the three blokes. But I kept managing to stand up afterwards, under my own steam (they were all little plops and didn't require skis to be dug out of snowdrifts) - it was my technique which was lacking, not my fitness/strength, though a bit more of both is always nice to have!
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Pedantica,
Quote:
miranda,
Quote:
I would like to try the experience of being roughly on a par in fitness/strength/speed whilst I'm trying to focus on technique in a one-off ski clinic.
...which (I think) you've just proved you can find in a mixed clinic, without the downside of clichés of either kind!
Nah, I'm with miranda on this one - the average man is stronger than the average woman - higher muscle mass or something innit? And strength/fitness def helps when you are learning new physical things. Take a cardio fit and reasonably strong woman, and an unfit woman who is weaker and the second will struggle much more with new skills because their muscles will tire WAY quicker.
So laws of averages a woman will not be as fit as men in a group.
Otherwise how do you explain male athletes running faster/throwing further etc if males don't have an inherent physical advantage? I'm not saying ALL men are fitter than ALL women, but on average, this is true.
pam w,
Quote:
The girls have to wait for a proper toilet - and if one is going to "go" it would be rude for others not to go at the same time, rather than stop the group a second time (and besides, loos on the mountain can be few and far between)
I'm getting (and practicing with) a she wee for next year. Did an into into split boarding a few weeks ago - no toilets obviously! I needed to go after lunch one day and it took about 15 mins for me to get over to a rock, get out of the harness (on glaciated terrain), unclip ski jacket from pants etc, have a wee and kit back up again. Nightmare.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
kat.ryb, if the goal is to find a group in which the levels of strength and fitness (irrespective of technique) are identical across the group, I think that's going to be quite hard to find in any recreational group, mixed or single sex. You'd need to narrow the age group down, just for starters. But I think that, except at top, competitive levels, technique trumps fitness and brute strength in any event. So, with a bit of intelligent triage by the coach, it's perfectly possible to get together a mixed class capable of learning on the same terrain and at the same speeds: I have participated in many such classes.
Good luck with your potty training!
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
pam w wrote:
I did the easiski "intro to off piste"
Funnily enough, I did a search on here for "easiski" and women's courses as I wondered if she ran/had run them, as I know she is rated very highly by people on here as an instructor. She started a similar thread 10 years ago, and the reaction was quite positive… including an 'I'm interested' response from Linds I think. The thread definitely had a different tone from this one, although I think that Nadenoodlee said pretty much the same thing then as she has this time around. Easiski definitely seems to think there's a difference when it comes to women and men skiing moguls and the like - something along the lines of men doing it more aggressively and with more air time, with women doing it more slowly and smoothly - I think she was talking about instructor training in that post though.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Quote:
I think that's going to be quite hard to find in any recreational group, mixed or single sex
pretty standard for most of the Brit schools in France
yes, they tend to be outrageously expensive but that's still steep. A 3 hour private lesson with BASS Megeve for up to 6 people costs £225. An absolute bargain if there are 6 of you!
There is absolutely no way I would pay a couple of hundred pounds for one lesson when you can get good, small group, tuition for a lot less - or use a non-British ski school. 3 hours with ESI Megeve - €175 (around half the ski chic rate). 2 hours for up to 3 people costs €65 - 92 (depending on season) in my local ESI - extra people €10 an hour.
I've booked private lessons with my local ESI for small groups (e.g. four kids) and it's worked out really well, and great value. A good option for a group of friends (whether women or not) whose requirements don't quite fit with the standard group lesson product. I'll be doing it again for various groups of grandchildren, next winter.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
pam w, ....if Swiss Mountain Sports puts on a female course the instruction element won't cost anything like this....
After all it is free
After all it is free
valais2, but that will be a group course, the figure being quoted above is for private lessons. Think it's important to compare with apples with apples
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
valais2, good news ...I am comparing apples with apples - private 1:1 lesson by Swiss mountain sports is 150 of our British pounds for a full morning 9-12.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
We had a day off mid week and I think the other women took it as a rest day but my boyfriend was there on another course so we skied together, probably something knackering knowing him. The guys on the course were not gung ho at all and I remember one being very timid.
