 Poster: A snowHead
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We have booked a trip to Morzine in March and we have a son who will be 4 in May. We have booked him into the ESF piou piou club every morning, but we have no idea how he will get on. He is used to going to nursery every day at home, but he isn't very outgoing.
So does anyone have any advice on making his first ski trip as fun as possible? Any practical advice on what to pack him off with each day. Should I buy a harness/reins to use with him in the afternoons, presuming he wants to do some skiing with us and isn't too tired or even to use if he refuses to go to ski school later in the week?
All advice will be gratefully received. BTW I have no interest in my own skiing for the week, I just want him to enjoy it and get on as well as possible.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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doddsie, good attitude. Play it by ear. Just try to keep it fun. Piou Piou is quite fun I think. Our littler one hated skiing the first year and now loves it (she was 4 when she first went and she is 10 now).
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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He might hate it, but just walk away. Let the staff do their magic. Resist the temptation to stand on the sidelines crying and panicking. Don't be surprised if he gets shouted at, or moved out of the way and ignored while he gets it out of his system. They do that sort of thing properly in France.
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Mr Pieholeo, +1.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Pie Jr once got put in the equipment shed for ten minutes, because his screaming was upsetting the others.
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| Quote: |
| Pie Jr once got put in the equipment shed for ten minutes, because his screaming was upsetting the others. |
I am glad you were happy with this because I certainly wouldn't be. If that's the sort of "magic" they come up with I am glad to have avoided it.
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| Quote: |
He might hate it, but just walk away. Let the staff do their magic. Resist the temptation to stand on the sidelines crying and panicking. Don't be surprised if he gets shouted at, or moved out of the way and ignored while he gets it out of his system. They do that sort of thing properly in France.
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tend to agree with this but not necessarily that he "hates" it - just that its something different to the norm so the kid might start crying to get its own way. I deffo "just walked away", not that there was ever much fuss anyway. I had two that started at 3, both Piou Piou and they did enjoy it. Always send them with a little pack of mini Jammy Dodgers or similar in their pocket 
Its not harsh parenting; kids have to learn to be separated for nursery, school etc.
They wont make much progress in the week so Id just use the afternoon for sledging, building snowmen, snowball fights etc
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Layne, in my experience the "equipment shed" is likely to be the hut that they also use to sit in and have snacks and if the weather gets too bad.
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| Layne wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Pie Jr once got put in the equipment shed for ten minutes, because his screaming was upsetting the others. |
I am glad you were happy with this because I certainly wouldn't be. If that's the sort of "magic" they come up with I am glad to have avoided it. |
Would you be happy if some other kid was going mental and upsetting yours?
It seems a tad harsh in the telling, and I deliberately made it so. He wasn't being waterboarded or having his teeth pulled with pliers though. It was just some cooling off time.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And at 3, it's as likely to be sheer anger as lasting unhappiness. We've all seen this, haven't we? Child in supermarket, told he can't have Despritly Shugary Pops, has hysterics. And don't we just despise the parents who say "Well, just this time, but you're not getting anything else". Makes me want to smack them (the parents, that is; I don't smack kids). At 3 they are rational (sort of). "Daddy will be back to pick you up later".
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I'm not worried about leaving him, but I would rather he enjoyed it. He doesn't tend to have hysterics, but he is likely to just lay down or mess around. Does anyone know if there is a magic carpet at Piou Piou Morzine? as he's done a couple of dry ski slope group lessons and he gets bored with standing around waiting for his turn and can't manage to walk up the slope himself. He likes the actual skiing bit though and doesn't have any fear.
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My 3 year old didnt get on that great last season, didnt hate but got too hot and tired and would just lie down. No paddy's and quite happy to go back every day. I don't regret putting her in the lessons for one minute as she would have hate NOT going when her older sister was skiing far more than doing it, if that makes any sense.
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You know it makes sense.
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I think my 3 year old nephew was known as the boy who just laid down in the snow 
doddsie, if Id given my girls the choice each day then they would have said "I want to stay at home", yet each time I picked them up they were grinning from ear to ear and had had a great time.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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A lot of little kids get bored with skiing because they don't understand the end product - ie how much fun it is to ski down the "big" mountain. Standing around in ski school and using a magic carpet for a morning is very tiring, and if a child hasn't seen anything of the rest of the mountain they think that is all there is to skiing. If it's at all possible it's useful to take a cable car/gondola ride to the main part of the mountain so they can see what they are aiming for, and once they can stop consistently to take them skiing on an appropriate green run where they can actually ride a chair lift. I've had many kids that absolutely hate the group lessons because of all the standing around, but love the skiing on the big mountain because it's easier and much more fun!
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Poster: A snowHead
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My younger son was 5 when he first went skiing. The biggest issue we had was getting him dressed in the morning - 'boots too tight', 'goggles too loose', anything you can think of. He couldn't understand why he had to wear all the gear when it was so hot in the apartment. Moral of the story? Do not underestimate the amount of time it will take to get him ready! Although I fully agree with pam w, regarding giving in to children's wants, the OP's son will be way outside his comfort zone so bribery may well be necessary, with bribe payable after the end of the session. Introduce yourself to another parent and take respective children to the nearest café together for said bribe.
As regards skiing in the afternoon, you will probably find that he is very tired, and maybe cold as well, so be very responsive to his needs. What happens after the lesson will play a big part in his feelings about the session itself when you are leaving him there the next morning.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
A lot of little kids get bored with skiing because they don't understand the end product
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They also get bored because it can be incredibly boring. I've seen big groups of kids standing for ages, doing nothing, waiting for their turn for a short slide. I see no advantage in sticking kids in those sorts of groups (other than it frees up parents' time).
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Big groups of adult beginners can be equally awful, of course, and most kids seem to put up with it OK - learning to be bored and not make a big fuss about it is also worthwhile. Sort of.
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Also if you watch my daughter in her swimming lesson to loves the time waiting for her term almost as much as swimming as she is chatting avidly away to whoever she is next to.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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What you need is nice long green runs for little ones. Gives me a sense of achievement.
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I guess I'm used to groups where the kids aren't standing around doing nothing. On the magic carpet, once they can manage a straight run by themselves and know how to use the carpet, they are pretty much moving all the time. Plus the groups are never larger than eight kids at a time. Once past the magic carpet they are constantly moving, as are the adult beginner lessons which don't use the magic carpet and are sliding independently after about the first 5 minutes on snow.
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skinanny, that's obviously ideal, but it isn't always like that, sadly.
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My daughter started at 4 in Avoriaz and liked it so much she wanted me to marry her instructor. Sadly her mother disagreed 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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welshskier,
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Ldoddsie, We took our then 3 year old son on his 1st trip to Morzine. It was early Feb and he was turning 4 in the April, so a very similar age. He also went to the Piou Piou club in Morzine.
I'll try to stick to bullet points:
He was the only English speaking kid in his group, in fact out of all the kids I think there were only 3 English speaking kids, and there were a lot of kids.
He enjoyed it ok but I wouldn't have said he was overly enthusiastic. He never once said in the morning he didn't want to go though.
He settled into nursery immediately and loved it, so we were ok in that point, he'd also stay quite readily with anyone even overnight, but he was a bit wary 1st day(maybe 2nd and not 1st), but they encouraged us just to leave. I don't have much of a problem with doing this unless I think there is a real problem.
Instructors seemed ok, one younger boy seemed quite good with my son. Another female recognised him up the mountain one afternoon. There were loads of kids in the snow garden so I was quite impressed with this.
There was a magic carpet but also a lot of waiting around, it was a hot year when we went through (3 years ago?), so at least he didn't get cold.
He always had a Freddo bar in his pocket. They do stop and have some food stuff in the room. I think they also have a break to play indoors for a bit.
Re the abruptness of the French with children, we found the instructors to be ok, although my OH did witness a child who was crying or whatever (I can't say exactly as I wasn't there) and the instructor picked the child up slammed them down on their skis and said "NON" in no uncertain terms. I'm not sure id have been happy if this had been my child, but I know mine doesn't cry for little things in front of strangers/teachers etc (only us:roll:) if he did, he would have been genuinely upset. I would like to think the instructors would see what was genuine and what was a whine. I also wasn't worried re my son if that puts you at ease. He would have said if he wasn't happy.
There is a little bar next to the garden that we would go to after his lesson and get him a juice, we'd always have cereal bars etc ready for him.
A good bribe is the badge at the end! You have to buy yourself though.
Later in the week we took him up higher on the Morzine side, off the gondola, there is a magic carpet up there so ideal to practice a bit more, and our wee one loved this.
We also had and used the reins, but we were with another two childless couples so we mainly used these to get from A to B if we wanted to go to a certain bar that was maybe hard for him, so as not to dictate everyone's holiday for a child.
Ours afternoons were spent few beers with one of the other adults in our group and the wee one in the bar next to Piou Piou, then we would head up to the Avoriaz side where the others had lessons most days, meet for lunch, a wee ski for the wee one some days particularly later in week. It all went quite well.
Prior to ski trip he had some lesson in the snowdome, so was quite confident in a snowplough.
Pm me if you want anymore info, I could maybe send a wee pic of my wee one and the Piou Piou club and perhaps a wee video.
G
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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What everyone else said, plus don't use reins. They're lethal if there's an accident...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| pam w wrote: |
| Quote: |
A lot of little kids get bored with skiing because they don't understand the end product
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They also get bored because it can be incredibly boring. I've seen big groups of kids standing for ages, doing nothing, waiting for their turn for a short slide. I see no advantage in sticking kids in those sorts of groups (other than it frees up parents' time). |
Darling Son's approach to this conundrum was just to f*ck off on his own regardless of the instruction given to stand and wait. We'd watch him from our spying vantage point, and he would regularly just schuss to the bottom to ease the boredom, get back on the drag lift, rejoin the group, and then have another go.
The ESF instructor told us he was 'very naughty', every day.
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Mr Pieholeo, where is the "like" button on here!
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You know it makes sense.
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| pam w wrote: |
| Quote: |
A lot of little kids get bored with skiing because they don't understand the end product
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They also get bored because it can be incredibly boring. I've seen big groups of kids standing for ages, doing nothing, waiting for their turn for a short slide. I see no advantage in sticking kids in those sorts of groups (other than it frees up parents' time). |
Pam, to back up the parents, most times they have booked ski school not knowing what it is going to be like. Often 1st time with children or 1st time in a resort so a new ski school. I don't think many parents out there stick their children in ski school to free up their time. They might joke about it, but ultimately they must want their children to love skiing as much as they do, otherwise that "free up their time" is going to cost them in that their children won't want to ski in future.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Went through this for second time myself this season. My son (now 12 and loves skiing) spent more of his first week (at almost 4) playing with the snow than skiing on it. My daughter this year (just over 4) did the 'I don't want to go' fuss on a few days, but was always happy when we picked her up, and now keeps asking to go again  As above, do drop them and walk away.
Don't expect them to come out skiing with you much in first week at this age though - unless you are planning on not doing much on some very gentle nursery slopes. My daughter was happier to go in the kids club and gossip/play most afternoons, my son used to like the snow play more - all kids are of course different.
By his third week my son would come on blues reds with us. I'd always leave my poles behind when skiing with him at that age, then I could pick him up and carry him if anything got too challenging (or he was too tired).
One tip from our experiences, have two sets of ski clothes for them. The tendency not to make the toilet in time is pretty high - my daughter had been well toilet trained at home for a long time, but getting there in time from a group on the snow, and with all the layers to get off, proved too much a few times at Christmas. Second set of clothes gives you time to get a wet set washed and dried.
Sledges are a great and fun way to get them and gear around and depending how far you have to go to drop off in the morning, can be a godsend. I often take a rope to attach to the sledge and then put around my waist (not on pistes, where people could ski into the rope though), frees up hands, and makes the 'run Daddy' requests lighter work!
Oh, and if at all possible try and encourage them not to suck their fingers (gloves) while standing around - rapidly leads to cold hands. Mitts might be better for this.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Thanks for all the comments, very useful. We had planned to take him up the mountain every day for lunch, as he will love going in the tele-cabine and if he then fancies doing the green run with us then well and good, if not we'll head home. I'm not worried about how strict the instructors are with him, although the lack of English kids Gilly mentions is a bit worrying, I know that if he makes a friend in ski school it will make a massive difference to how much he enjoys it. The standing around and boredom is the thing that worries me most, but it's only a week so hopefully he can struggle through.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Don't worry about non English kids in the lessons, my lad (4) struck up a weird friendship with a slightly older German girl, weird in that neither of them could understand each other!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Yes agree it didn't seem to bother my son either, he never mentioned he didn't have a pal. They are busy with the skiing, even when just in a line waiting, they just seem to be in their own wee world.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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IME the language barrier is not an issue at that age. They're pretty good at communicating with body language and play.
My daughter struck up numerous friendships both last summer in Italy and Christmas in France with non-english speakers. I think it's good for their language skills personally. They talk away in their native language and learn a few words from each other (and in France encouraged her to use some of the French she's learned at pre-school). Similar to way they learned English from us I guess.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Fenfilly, aw, thats lovely. Where was that?
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Oz en Oisans.
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All I have heard all day are crying children staying in he chalet behind ours, great to bring your kids out to ski young, but unless they are native and used to the cold and other factors they are not happy little bunnies. I'm sure I'll get shot down, but some people need to to think these things through, all I've seen are skiing dads and pissed off mothers.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I took my children on skiing holidays with us starting from 18months with just our eldest, then again when she was 2.5yrs, then when we had two at 14months and 4 yrs (first time of on real skis in lessons), then last season 3 & 6 both on skis. At no point did we have lots of tears and the only tantrum was when I picked my daughter up straight from her lesson rather than letting her go back into the kids club (we were with Esprit for that holiday ) as she did not want to go with us she wanted to stay with her friends (said along side stamping her foot).
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| Quote: |
but unless they are native and used to the cold and other factors they are not happy little bunnies.
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 Whether natives or not they can be be happy, or unhappy, bunnies and people asking for advice in this sort of thread are presumably hoping to reduce the risk of having the latter.
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FAQ
My daughter has a daft friend who has not been out of the company of her now 2.5 year old child for any time at all. Never. Absolutely mental.
