 Poster: A snowHead
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While I have rebuilt my skiing over the past decade or so, one vestigial movement from the old days of my skiing is what is often called the "patrol roll" or "racer flash," the curling in of the hands and forearms before the turn starts and snapping them out at the pole touch. You often see a version of this used by free skiers since it's a subtle upper body rotation that helps start the turn on steeper terrain.
That said, I'd like some insight into how to be more aware when I'm doing this movement and also would like some drills to help eliminate it (or at least reduce it). I thought I had (and I'm doing much better), but recent video shows that it comes back, especially when I am focused on other aspects of my skiing.
So, what do you think? How do I calm my hands and forearms and carry them more quietly and naturally?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Just before you begin curling in, shout "Get!!"
Just before "pole touch", shout "Forward!!"
[repeat for every turn] 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Cock your wrists as if you're revving a motorbike throttle.
Carry your hands as if you're pushing a shopping trolley / cart.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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What's wrong with this? Is it because you end up with your body too opened up and over rotated?
I speak as a sometime opener of barn size doors and I'd like to get steezier on the poles. One option is to go shorter so I cna't be so flouncey.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Does the "double pole plant" exercise come into this at all? rob@rar was talking about it a few weeks ago. I tried doing it yesterday and found it extremely difficult - which probably means I need to do it! I see French skiers of the "mincing" type doing a very elaborate curling thing with their arms which does look comical - good entertainment from the lift. 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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ssh,
Not sure what you mean - do you have any video examples?
I thought "Patrol roll" was slightly out of snyc turning of the upperbody caused by a patrollers heavy ruck sack, as if something is swinging on a skier's anorak hood.
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but recent video shows that it comes back,
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do it!
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fatbob,
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go shorter so I cna't be so flouncey.
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spelling aside, one risk of doing that is that it can encourage bending at the waist (rather than knees/ankles) when you do want to plant your poles... (well, I have seen it happen, whether it's well recognised or not  )
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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II can't resist the idea that maybe you need to think 'Ssh'!
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| pam w wrote: |
| Does the "double pole plant" exercise come into this at all? rob@rar was talking about it a few weeks ago. |
Yes, that would be my suggestion. Rather than a single tap of the pole, you tap twice. You need to have fast, accurate hands otherwise it screws your timing. Fast hands means you can't have an elaborate planting movement as you don't have enough time.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| under a new name wrote: |
fatbob,
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go shorter so I cna't be so flouncey.
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spelling aside, one risk of doing that is that it can encourage bending at the waist (rather than knees/ankles) when you do want to plant your poles... (well, I have seen it happen, whether it's well recognised or not ) |
Surely bending at the waist is essential when you bend your knees (outside of moguls)?
Not entirely sure what the movement SSH is describing looks like, but a good drill for stable hands is balancing your poles on the back of your hands.
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| jimmer wrote: |
Not entirely sure what the movement SSH is describing looks like, but a good drill for stable hands is balancing your poles on the back of your hands. |
Think it looks like opening a door from elbows. Cure I would have thought is to concentrate on punching imaginary dwarves/
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You know it makes sense.
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ALQ, 
fatbob, it will apply a rotational force to the skis that I'd rather not. Also, it's unnecessary movement that I'd like to quiet.
pam w, hmmm... actually, a double-pole drag could be a ticket! Thanks!
DB, well caught on that video! Yep. That's it.
dulcamara, 
Megamum, thanks! It has pretty subtle effect on the skis, and appears mostly on steeper, ungroomed terrain. But, this is a very interesting idea...
rob@rar, ah! Now I see what you're saying. Let me play with that, too.
jimmer, I don't think I've ever done that. If I have, it's been years. Good call. I'll play with it.
fatbob, that usually works pretty well in moguls for me, and I don't seem to have this show up on groomers, but I'll play with this idea, too.
Thanks, all!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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jimmer, not quite, I have seen some very odd postures, one in particular where the individual simply bent forward at the waist because his poles were too short. Most odd.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Looks like what I really needed was awareness... Skiing today I was ably to quiet them simply by deciding to do so. But, I love all these great ideas, and am going to play with them over time.
Thanks, again!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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ssh, welcome to the club, I did the same thing. A wife pointing it out after each and every run did the trick for me..... I guess along with a load of balance exercises to improve the core of my skiing...
So I think time, awareness and a "helpful" nudge/prompt/p*ss take from your mates/other half would help
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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ski without poles, once comfortable and not flapping your hands about then try keeping hands on an imaginary mountain bike as your are skiing...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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One exercise I find very handy when I feel my upper body, and perhaps arms/hands getting a bit flappy (relevant here), is to turn my poles upside down.
Still hold the grips but have the poles pointing 'up' instead of 'down' as normal, and keep the bottom of the run, the fall line, in focus. This assumes you have a sound basic stance. Keep your hands in the normal position but with the poles up.
Use that window frame to focus everything from the hips upwards. Keep the 'frame' solid and after you've initiated the turn, advance your hips towards the inside hand.
Great for short radius turns and calms everything down for the top half of your body.
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FAQ
