Well had my first go at Telemark tonight at Tamworth and that was fun! Bit of a bargain as well, 2 hr private lesson for £30. I even managed a few sort of OK tele turns and only came a cropper once when I got a bit over confident! Should make snowdome trips a bit more interesting with something new to practice!
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Telemark rocks - well done for having a go.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Yep it certainly has that possibility Alastair Pink
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
I'm curious about this - what's the point of telemarking? I've never tried it but it appears to combine the worst aspects of both Nordic (hard to turn) and Alpine (heavy) skiing. Are there situations where telemarking is the best option? Or is it something that folk do for fun once regular skiing has gotten too easy?
Didn't find the turns too hard, still need a load of practice to get them fluid and make sure my legs are in the right place at the right time but even with first attempts it seems to have a very pleasant rhythm to it!
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Valkyrie,
Quote:
Are there situations where telemarking is the best option? Or is it something that folk do for fun once regular skiing has gotten too easy?
Never tried it but when I have beem with telemarkers one place they have a huge advantage is going uphill with skins they are much quicker. Also just about every telemarker I have ever skied with has been a miles better skier than me.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Valkyrie wrote:
I'm curious about this - what's the point of telemarking?
Clunge magnetism
No longer needing to wash
take your pick
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Valkyrie wrote:
I'm curious about this - what's the point of telemarking? I've never tried it but it appears to combine the worst aspects of both Nordic (hard to turn) and Alpine (heavy) skiing.
Is a glass half full or half empty?
Telemark gears are lighter than Alpine gear, turns on tele gear are much more powerful than on nordic gear.
Quote:
Are there situations where telemarking is the best option?
I think it makes sense when there's a lot of ups and downs of different difficulty (or long flat sections). You can kick and glide on tele gear when the angle is not too steep. When it does get steep, you can put skin on to go up and use tele turns to get down.
Otherwise, AT (alpine touring) would probably work just as well and without the need to learn another turning technique. But farfing about locking down the heal and putting skins on every 20 minutes can be quite annoying!
(and nordic skis won't cut it when the slope angle goes beyond green'ish)
*****************************************
Disclaimer: I'm not a tele skier. I do only alpine and nordic.
But once I was touring a back country trail with 2 others: one in tele and the other in AT gear.
To go up, the tele skier simply kick and glide. The AT skier had to put skins on. I on nordic gear was the fastest going up. I stopped from time to time to wait for the tele skier to catch up. Then we wait some more for the AT skier to show up.
Coming down, the control and speed was exactly the reverse: I on nordic gear was on the margin of out of control. The tele skier was fine. But the skier on alpine gear was FAST and furiously zipping around the trees and jumping over small ledges.
One might suspect skills and fitness plays a part. But I knew these two fellas. I wasn't the most fit yet with nordic gear I was fastest going up. The skier on AT ski wasn't any more skilled than the other two of us on alpine gear. Her gear simply allow her to get down much faster and still in control.
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abc wrote:
Telemark gears are lighter than Alpine gear,
.
Don't think that's been the case for a long time. The skis are the same skis so must weigh the same, depends on which binding your using but pin bindings and 7TM type tele-bindings are about the same weight. Telemark boots are quite a lot heavier than Alpine boots, again this depends on which make of boot you use but in general it's true.
I often tour with telemarkers and haven't found them to be any quicker uphill than me. On undulating terrain you can only kick and glide if you have fishscales or use wax both of which will slow you down. So there's no perfect answer.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Why Telemark?
It's different, and it looks so good.
For many the fun of skiing is finding new challenges: deep snow, moguls, slush, heavy snow, breakable crust, carving concrete . . . .
Eventually you get to Telemarking.
Our first lesson is next week
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
OwenM wrote:
abc wrote:
Telemark gears are lighter than Alpine gear,
.
Don't think that's been the case for a long time. The skis are the same skis so must weigh the same, depends on which binding your using but pin bindings and 7TM type tele-bindings are about the same weight. Telemark boots are quite a lot heavier than Alpine boots, again this depends on which make of boot you use but in general it's true.
I often tour with telemarkers and haven't found them to be any quicker uphill than me. On undulating terrain you can only kick and glide if you have fishscales or use wax both of which will slow you down. So there's no perfect answer.
AT Gear may be the same weight but for regular alpine downhill kit Tele gear is significantly lighter. AT should be faster uphill, like for like on skier due to the efficiency of the free toe pivot unless you've got a trick tele binding that allows toe pivot for skinning (and even then you'll lose something in the flex of the boot I suspect)
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Valkyrie, For me, I prefer to use Telemark gear for my on piste skiing as it gives me more options than Alpine gear - I can still do snowplough, stem and parallel turns, but in addition I can do tele turns when I feel like it (if the terrain is too steep for my tele ability I just revert to parallel), and on the flat it's easy to get along using a langlauf stride.
Plus tele boots are way more comfortable than alpine!
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Valkyrie wrote:
I'm curious about this - what's the point of telemarking?
There is no reason...
Telemark is totally pointless and dumb (but fun).
About 25 years ago telemarking made a big comeback for ski touring.
At that point in history a telemark binding made practical sense for ski touring and was lighter.
However these days modern touring bindings with fixed heel (dyanfit) etc are much more efficient.
If you look at the history of skiing then telemark is the original style of skiing developed in Norway.
Whilst alpine is the technique that was developed slightly later by Hannes Schneider in the Arlbreg region of the alps.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Tele is a) way way way more ineffecient uphill than alpine. It's also heavier. Not all tele bindings have a release, or even a step in function ! If you do tour, the boots are c**p for any climbing as the duckbill and flexible sole make fitting crampons reliably a lottery.
but.....
Boots are comfy
Much much more fun to do
Bumps
Powder
Bumps
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Haggis_Trap,
Quote:
Telemark is totally pointless and dumb (but fun).
And the point of alpine gear is?
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
^ To slide down hill efficiently
The only practical benefit of a telemark stance (compared to alpine) is improved fore-aft balance ?
However its much harder physically and clearly a less efficient style of skiing ?
Of course telemark is fun, a good challenge and looks great when done well.
But there is no real benefit from a telemark turn : especially now modern touring gear is so much better.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Haggis_Trap,
I'm not a telemarker and I was not completely serious but the main point of skiing in general is to have fun surely? There is little practical use for going over snow covered hills these days other than as a leisure activity.
Stolen from Andyman's EoSB telemark thread but this video basically shows the steps my intro lesson went through,
http://youtube.com/v/04AhNhnPbYI
By the end of the 2 hours it was no problem getting all the way down the Tamworth slope doing sort of (some much better than others!) telemark turns.
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davkt I'd like to have a go at this myself - maybe give me something do to over the summer months. Can you post a link to the Tamworth sessions, please?
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duncan, http://www.midlandtelemark.co.uk/#tasterhttps://www.facebook.com/pages/Midland-Telemark/165105036860603?fref=ts The facebook page doesn't get updated very often but I got a quick reply though it, or there is a phone number on there for Ian Acey, one of their coaches who I had my lesson with (drop me a PM if you don't don't do facebook and I will give you Ian's contact details). 2 hr intro session is £30 (plus slope fees, Ian will get you in at members rates if you aren't a member), and once you've got the basics they have coaching sessions once a month for club members which are only a fiver on top of slope fees.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
I've answered this question (from friends) before a few times... I swapped from alpine to telemark just over 3 years ago and people have sometimes asked why.
I completely agree that telemark turns are not the most efficient way to get down a snow-covered hill. The plain fact is that it's more muscle-work per turn than alpine. That extra degree of freedom also gives you a special "telemark face plant" failure mode too!
On the other hand, depending on which telemark gear you're using, it may also be too heavy and stiff to be a real winner when touring. Cross country gear is a clear winner on flat or very gentle slopes.
So when it comes to pure usefulness, telemark gear only properly wins in gentle, rolling hills where you have gradients that are steeper than are manageable on XC gear, plus long flat or gentle uphill sections which you can kick 'n' glide. You need to shop wisely, but telemark lets you cope with one set of gear. Think Norway or Scotland, rather than the alps.
But in addition to pure usefulness, you have two more considerations:
(1) The comfort. My tele boots are some of the stiffest around (high, 4-buckle Garmonts) but they're like slippers compared to my alpine boots. I can gently kick 'n' glide 50 metres between lifts, and give my quads a quick stretch in the lift queue without removing skis.
(2) The sheer damned fun of it! The telemark turn means you are closer to the ground and more spread out front to back (improving fore-aft balance as previously pointed out). If you get the stance right, it also lets you absorb the lumps and bumps more easily. For me personally, this means that I now *love* skiing powder, (light) moguls and slush, none of which I was much good at on alpine.
So to conclude, telemark is unlikely to be the answer if efficiency is your only concern. But if you want to try something different, or if you find powder, moguls or slush difficult, you might find Telemark is more fun than Alpine.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
davkt, thanks for the info. I'll look to book myself in after I get back from my trip to Sainte Foy next week
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Valkyrie wrote:
I'm curious about this - what's the point of telemarking?
Great question.
Another great question is 'What's the point of breathing?' The answer's the same really..
Telemarking makes no logical sense;
the boots whilst lighter and more comfortable cost about twice as much as alpine and are 10 time harder to find. The are useless to use with crampons.
The bindings: are about £180 minimum (compared to almost free minimum for alpine). Rather than have a mechanical system to protect your lower limbs from injury they use a biological femur / tibia protection system - your ACLs. Are less efficient uphill than AT, oh and they break (repeatedly) and do not accept ski crampons without effort. And are impossible to get into.
The skis are the same
The skiing is much harder work. Compare dot your mates (or even your wide and young children) on alpine gear you will be slower, rest more often, moan more (and at points cry) fall more and bottle more.
Oh and T-bars are a nightmare.
Half the binding- twice the effort is a useful description (3 times the price as well- almost).
So what's the point?
Well even my 12 year old knows the answer.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Thanks all. I'm pretty tempted for skiing in Scotland, but might leave it a season or two to try and "master" the Alpine skiing first.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Yes, its all been said above. Why telemark ? Because when you get bored with alpine skiing there is something new to learn which feels and I think looks fabulous ! Oh and stepping back into alpine bindings after freewheel feels awful.
Is there any research that proves tele is riskier for ACLs ? I do wonder given that tele falls don't seem to load up knees ?
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Peter S wrote:
Is there any research that proves tele is riskier for ACLs ? I do wonder given that tele falls don't seem to load up knees ?
Good question.
Most surveys I have seen seem to indicate that you are perhaps less likely to hurt your knees when skiing telemark (vs alpine) ?
Even with a non-release cable binding.
Though there doesn't seem to be a definitive answer....
So interested to hear what others think.
Certainly the potential for ACL snapping would be there if you caught edge in a twisting fall ?
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Valkyrie, I'm late to the party but let's get some fundamentals out of the way.
You can Alpine on tele virtually as hard as you can with your heels clipped down . . . It's just a technique thing.
You can carve both short and long tele turns (this is more ski sensitive than Alpine) as well as every form of steered or skid turn in the Alpine text book.
It promotes skills development as, slightly regrettably, it does magnify the lack thereof.
It is almost as good as snowboarding for protecting your knees and strengthening all the muscular support around your knees.
Boots are like slippers . . . And you can walk for miles in them (& dance on bar stools without slipping and breaking 3 ribs
Wimen find it a bit sexy
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
OwenM wrote:
I often tour with telemarkers and haven't found them to be any quicker uphill than me. On undulating terrain you can only kick and glide if you have fishscales or use wax both of which will slow you down. So there's no perfect answer.
What do you mean by wax/fishscale "slow you down"? Do you mean to say slow you down MORE than skins, which has almost NO glide at all?
The bindings: are about £180 minimum (compared to almost free minimum for alpine). Rather than have a mechanical system to protect your lower limbs from injury they use a biological femur / tibia protection system - your ACLs.
Long before the force reaches the ACL, it needs to overcome the degree of freedom offered by the ankle!
That's why alpine gear, with rigid ankle, NEEDS a release mechanism! Nordic bindings don't have releasable binding, telemarks don't either. How often do you hear people torn their ACL in nordic skiing? How often of telemarkers?
Quote:
The skis are the same
No, the skis are NOT the same.
Yes, you can put tele binding on alpine skis. But there're also loads of soft, light weight skis telemarkers use that no one EVER put AT bindings on! Those are the skis telemarkers use for gentle undulating terrain!
Quote:
and do not accept ski crampons without effort.
When the terrain is gentle, who needs ski crampons?
Just because some telemarkers take on the Alps doesn't mean that's the only place telemark is good for (or rather, not so good for).
Indeed, that's why so many people so totally miss the point of telemark: because they think of it as a replacement of alpine touring gear, which it is NOT!
Is Ipad a good laptop? Nope. So what's the point of Ipad? Because it's a fabulous tablet!
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Quote:
When the terrain is gentle, who needs ski crampons?
Harscheisen are not specifically intended for super steep - they really come into their own to prevent slipping sideways when traversing boilerplate frozen slope.
One method of fixing is to use A.T.-type ski crampons - cut a slot in both sides of the crampon and run a webbing strap through the slot and the crampon can be attached to the sole of the boot (as far forward as possible)
ABC : you are confusing nordic (x-country) with telemark skiing.
For example x-country skiers can use classic technique (in a track), skating technique or telemark turns.
All have free heels, but different disciplines, equipment and styles of skiing.
Telemark is arguably just another style of ski turn ?
As you say tele-turns can be performed on a variety of different equipment styles (from light weight to burly).
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Without wanting to get berated for spamming etc, if it's of interest to anyone etc etc my OH three weeks ago did interview Ben Langridge, British telemark guru in Val d'Isere - so you don't have to click on the link if you don't want to !
He heard an amusing quote re telemark "If skiing is sex, then tele is tantric"
I know quite a few who all they do is tele and they are evangelical about it almost to the point of boring you, which is so often the case when you do something that you think others should do. I'm a bit like that with x-country and will be even worse when I get my skating kit, (end of season ex rental) but tracks are rapidly disappearing
I would love to give it a go but there's only so much you can do, have not even been out on my kite this season!
Anyway here is that link, should you not feel you're being submitted to spam, though the more often coined phrase is pimping.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Great interview. Completely captures what Telemark is all about. Thanks for that.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Haggis_Trap wrote:
ABC : you are confusing nordic (x-country) with telemark skiing.
...
As you say tele-turns can be performed on a variety of different equipment styles (from light weight to burly).
No, I'm not confused. You seem to forget there's a huge gap between nordic and alpine, which is exactly where telemark fits in perfectly!
(Granted, the best of telemark skiers can ski the very toughest of alpine runs with style. But that's not exactly the "point" of telemark, rather the cause of the "confusion" by most alpine skiers)
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abc, So wrong
Quote:
Nordic bindings don't have releasable binding, telemarks don't either
Yes some do either 7TMs or Rottefella NTNs - Above some releasable tele bindings- all the rage.but each cost loads - approx £250-300
Quote:
No, the skis are NOT the same.
Thats funnny mine are! I tele on Salomon Foils (previously mounted with alpine bindings, Line Prophet's - previously mounted with alpine bindings and Atomic Sweet Daddys- which are usually mointe dwith AT bindings. My son tele's on B3 Juniors
Below Ed Junior telemarking on B3 juniors
[quote]
I think you have missed the irony of my posting. Sorry.
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads on Fri 21-03-14 19:40; edited 1 time in total
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
(but fun).
- Above some releasable tele bindings- all the rage.but each cost loads - approx £250-300
[quote]
