 Poster: A snowHead
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With the touring season approaching and a few posts about touring gear I though I might share my thoughts on my new for this season F12s.
First the great/good stuff.
I have skied in these in Scarpa AT boots now for around 60 days, and they ski virtually like a normal alpine boot/binding combination, and much better than my old sloppy Fritchis. The feel on the ski is rock solid and does not feel stacked like the Fritchi. These bindings are compatable with both alpine and AT boots with a simple adjustment.
OK stuff
The weight is comparable to other frame bindings but obviously heavier than Tech bindings. It's straight forward to switch between climbing and skiing modes and also to adjust the height of the support under the boot for climbing. It should be noted that switching between modes can only be done with the ski off.
Not so good.
The correct forward presure is high which means more than normal force is needed to step into the binding even on the 7 din I have them set to, on firm flat snow this is not a problem, however this might be an issue getting a ski on in deep powder. When locking down the binding after climbing every bit of snow has to be cleaned off from under the binding ensure the it locates correctly, and it's possible to locate it on one side only which is very weird to try and ski with.
Summary
I really like these bindings and would recommend them. They are light and give me the flexability to use different types of boot, and are light enough for sustained climbs when coupled with a light ski. They feel safe and solid on the down.
Note.
The F12 has been improved since 2012 so be wary buying older ones. There is a new model out called the EPF which suit wider skis, 88mm min. With the changes in the model there are some deals about.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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pretty much sums up my views. for lift served touring, think they are ideal
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I'm being told there is no difference between the standard F12 and the EPF version regarding the pressure they exert on the ski edge. anyone noticed any differences when skiing the 2 types?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@MurrayN, see spyderjon's response in regard to my comments on this thread and I think the consensus is: Unless your skis are super soft torsion-ally then the EPF makes no difference to edge pressure, but may help defend against the very slight possibility of lateral pull out on the widest skis.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@midgetbiker, thanks for the input .. but excuse my ignorance, I don;t know how to find spyderjon's comments on this thread. Can you help?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Hagan are a much better alternative, the F12 is prone to breaking...
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@MurrayN, I read spyderjon comments and he said the extra wide base plate made no difference. And if that's what he thinks, I now think it as well 
I know the original F12 had some issues with breaking around the pivot but it was quickly addressed and I am unaware of any problem with either the current or previous model.
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I'm just back from Flaine where I spent alternate days skinning and skiing on my Marker F10/Whitedot Preachers and Fritshi Eagle/Scott Missions in my BD 110 Factors (I also have Scarpa Denali touring boots)
The Marker F10 is great on the Preachers; no different to an alpine binding - really stiff responsive and no significant (to me) increase in stack height - I only set my DIN at 6.5 so don't think the F12s would be any different for me. However the bindings can be awkward to change from skin to ski mode; especially ensuring ALL snow and ice is cleared from the mechanism - not much fun having to take gloves off to do it when very cold
I find the Fritshi easier for touring, especially adjusting ramp angle on the move and very simple to change between skin and ski mode even with gloves on. I've never noticed any limitation skiing on the Fritshis with the Scotts, but don't ski them as hard as the Marker/Preachers
So for me it's horses for courses. Markers when the downhill is most important and Fritshis for when the uphill is most important - but both good. My touring boots don't have pin holes so I don't have to worry about tech bindings
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I have F10s which I have skied loads on a pair of Volkl Auras for the last few years and got on really well with them, no difference in feel to alpine bindings for me. I had Fritschi Freerides on the Auras when I first got them and hated them, they are reasonably stiff skis and I just felt so awkward with the Fritschis, the Markers are great by comparison, I never think about them. I would love to go Dynafit eventually but the Markers are good for a do everything binding.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Thanks All for the input - Spyderjon is fitting a pair of F12's for me as we speak, so I'll let you know how I get along after a few weeks.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Hi Guys. Good to read real reviews of gear on this site. I have a pair of F12 bindings and have just bought the Scarpa Freedom with the touring soles. Not tried them yet, but I have concerns about fitting to binding.
How much gap should there be between sole and AFD. Even with the height adjusted to max, the vibram sole is hard down on the sliding AFD plate. I can just about pull out a piece of paper but it is tight. I can still slide the AFD by hand. Will this be OK for release?
If I adjust the forward pressure so that the screw is completely flush, the boot heel barely fits into the heel piece. When you step on it the heel piece slides back and locks in place. If not careful, the lugs do not come over the top of the boot heel, but can get jammed against the heel. Seems like this could be very difficult to get right in powder snow. Is this normal, anyone have difficultly with this.
You speak about the connection to the ski. With the boot clamped in and the ski clamped to worktop, I can move top of boot +/- 1.5 cm. Is this normal? This is better than previous skis which had rental bindings, but much worse that wifes skis with salomon alpine bindings. Is there any standard comparison for this?
Appreciate any comments and look forward to MurrayN review in due course.
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What about weight?
I have a now quite old pair of Mantra's with a Marker Duke, i liked them to ski but they weight a ton.
My wife has the Baron on a pair of Aura's and again they are quite heavy.
I almost only tour for access max a couple of hours and am thing of a whole new set up, including touring boots but want a decent setup for downhill.
I had thought that tech bindings where perhaps going a bit too far just for skinning off lifts so like the sound of the F12.
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You know it makes sense.
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| AndyT wrote: |
| ......How much gap should there be between sole and AFD. Even with the height adjusted to max, the vibram sole is hard down on the sliding AFD plate. I can just about pull out a piece of paper but it is tight. I can still slide the AFD by hand. Will this be OK for release? |
The correct spec for the gap is 0.5mm. Yours sounds a tad tight so check for a high spot on one of the vibram sole lugs which might need sanding down a little. Also, before doing the feeling gauge test, lever the boot cuff firmly backwards to ensure that the toe lug is located tight up against the overhang on the toe binding.
| AndyT wrote: |
| If I adjust the forward pressure so that the screw is completely flush, the boot heel barely fits into the heel piece. When you step on it the heel piece slides back and locks in place. If not careful, the lugs do not come over the top of the boot heel, but can get jammed against the heel. Seems like this could be very difficult to get right in powder snow. Is this normal..... |
Yes. The whole Royal Family of bindings run a lot of forward pressure however the F10/12 heels are a lot easier to click in to than the Baron/Duke.
| AndyT wrote: |
| You speak about the connection to the ski. With the boot clamped in and the ski clamped to worktop, I can move top of boot +/- 1.5 cm. Is this normal? This is better than previous skis which had rental bindings, but much worse that wifes skis with salomon alpine bindings. Is there any standard comparison for this? |
No.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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@spyderjon,
6kg per foot, no wonder my legs complain!
I think you may have convinced me, thanks.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@spyderjon, how are you doing on the Rangers, I was/am tempted but radius put me off a bit, how nimble are they, basically are they nimble enough in the rough stuff.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I'm on the exact same setup as Jon using the 195 version of the ski and they are plenty nimble. Obviously they prefer bigger turns but nothing is really holding you back as they aren't crowbar stiff. Particularly in soft snow where the carbon provides a great snap.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Thanks @meh,
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FAQ
