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Keeping your hand in - are snowdomes worth a visit in summer for a little refresher?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Quote:
I tend to think the artificial slopes (indoors or plastic) are very similar to a driving range. Certainly not the same experience as playing 18 holes around your favourite golf course, but useful nevertheless.


That's a good analogy.

I think people are different though aswell. I remember reading Bothams book and how his approach differed greatly from Graham Gooch, particularly in relation to practice and the like. Both great players though.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I would willingly swap ANY hour spent commuting or at work for one in a snowdome
Simples
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I have been planning on going to Chill Factor at MAN, as I get over there occasionally and thought I might use my spare time there wisely. I'd be looking to do some Rails or 360's or Polish up on my Moguls. snowHead
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AJQ, You would need to check the days when rails and/or bumps are available. I go Sundays and it's rare to find other that flat piste.

On the general proposition, I think it's well worth while, particularly if you take instruction. I am lucky enough to gio with my local Club who have instructors on hand to set drills and pass comment. And as a pre to a first holiday a course here can't be beaten.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
I'm 10 minutes from braehead and go a few times a summer. Used to hate it but I worked out it was good for trying new things and improving your technique, as others have said.

I learned to ride fakie and start hitting park features in there. I can go over much bigger jumps.

If you set yourself goals and use the domes to work on them it's all good, also useful to get you back on the snow if you're off on holiday shortly and haven't skied or boarded for a while
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It is def worth skiing indoors or on plastic here in the UK an hour a week will keep your fitness level up and the odd lesson will improve your skiing standard. But equally some people just don't like the fact of 200m runs and that is their loss ( no critiscm meant).
I went for an hour a couple weeks ago first time in about 20yrs and god was I rusty but slowly it started to come back but will take a while to get back to how I used to ski. Hopefully will start going 2-3 hours plus a week in the end which will then help improve fitness plus maybe the odd full day.
Other half and kids will be learning on these slopes proir to going away next year and instead of being stuck on nursery slopes learning how to get the gear on how to walk before even doing their first slide they will have a few easy slow blue/greens first morning before straight into lessons with me and hopefully if they have the ability will easily be skiing any reds by the end of the week and be at a high intermediate level or above.

So everyone to there own but if you are paying out for a ski holiday abroad why not make sure you give yourself the chance to get the maximum you can out of it.
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speed098, I think that you are right about the lessons and using the indoor/plastic tracks to work on technique. I think I may head down the local plastic track when it re-opens in October. Fitness not an issue because I cycle a bit. Good idea getting the OH and kids learning before you go away - our younger one had a private lesson on plastic and it worked a treat.
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Don't go expecting it to be just like the mountain (it is nothing like the off-piste skiing I do) but it can still be quite fun. Go very early morning or late evening when it is empty. I expect to do 20 descents per hour. Do fast, precise carved turns - alternate descents doing small turns and large turns - then jump turns. Then ski on one leg. Or why not go to Hemel on Friday (or Thursday evening) and learn to do jumps and rails. Or join the race training (Monday evenings). Or if you are a skier try snowboarding lessons (or vice-versa).


Last edited by After all it is free Go on u know u want to! on Fri 21-03-14 14:18; edited 1 time in total
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snowball, you haven't seen me ski, mate. Carved turns, maybe. Sort of. Fast and precise - - may be after a bit more practice. Good advice re timings.
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dobby, Very Happy I just meant try to. If people think snow domes are boring.
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Given their anti-indoor snow stance, is it worth asking where Layne and Corduroy stand on dry slopes

I think I can guess.

My view (& no doubt that of many fellow Snowheads) is that any skiing - indoors, outdoors, plastic, mega resorts with 500km of piste, single seat chairlift resorts with 10 km of piste - is good skiing. And certainly better than a trip round the shops. But each to their own of course.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Quote:
Given their anti-indoor snow stance, is it worth asking where Layne and Corduroy stand on dry slopes

On the downside they are rubbish to ski and bear even less resemblance to mountain skiing. On the upside they are outside in the fresh air with a view of the surrounding hills or industrial estate Toofy Grin For the record when I first started skiing I had a few lessons at Swadlincote and a couple of sessions at Hemel when it was a dry slope. I've been to Tamworth fridge once.

Quote:
My view (& no doubt that of many fellow Snowheads) is that any skiing - indoors, outdoors, plastic, mega resorts with 500km of piste, single seat chairlift resorts with 10 km of piste - is good skiing.

If the only skiing available to me was dry slope or fridge skiing I wouldn't ski. If you are telling me you would or that 99.9% of SHs would then I'm not going to argue with you - it could well be true. I guess I'm a bit of a purist wink

Dry slopes and fridges clearly have a market and clearly have a purpose. I am not suggesting they should be banned or that if I was to use them it wouldn't be more fun than many other duties or chores I have to undertake. However, I would rather do other things as the cost is high and experience limiting, for me personally.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
yes! riding and improving your freesytle ability will open up a entire new way of riding the mountain!
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Layne wrote:

If the only skiing available to me was dry slope or fridge skiing I wouldn't ski.
Same here, but since that isn't the case I shall (very occasionally) continue to go. The next time might be in 4 months when I'm hoping my leg will have recovered sufficiently.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
I think many would be surprised how much they could improve their skiing if they went to their local indoor/outdoor slopes on a regular basis and many of them do special offers, cheap hours or weekly tickets etc ( been checking around all the local ones to me).
Most people though when I was skiing regularly went a week or so before going away which is just not enough time to see any real improvement in their skiing even with a lesson or in their fitness.
Plastic is diferent than snow as it is so much slower which for many can make turn initiation more difficult, this is more noticable for beginners and intermediates but this can have a possitive on snow once you get over the increased speed/acceleration. I think it is also one of the main things that put many off plastic, but to be honest skiing powder is not the same as skiing a nice groomed piste which is not the same as skiing glacial ice yet these are all conditions most skiers would love to be able to master like a pro.

I started skiing because of relatives (went on holiday to Austria with them) but they did not like skiing on plastic yet even though they had been skiing over a year before I started within months I had left them way behind, they actually even though they went on ski holidays for a good few years afterwards never made it past intermediate. At that time I probably did an hour or two a week on plastic.
I think I remember this right Franz Klammer had a homemade ski machine if memory serves it was a device that worked his muscles to simulate the workload experienced doing a downhill, if standing on a machine like that has benefits for an Olympic skier then plastic and indoor slopes will def be a benefit.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
speed098 wrote:

Most people though when I was skiing regularly went a week or so before going away which is just not enough time to see any real improvement in their skiing even with a lesson or in their fitness.
True, but personally I do it to remind my muscles what they knew before, principally how to carve as I did at the end of the last season, rather than to get better. If I progress, it is on the mountain, having to ski breakable crust or negotiate a steep couloir. For fitness I cycle - an hour in a ski dome gives you at most 20 descents, which is at most 3 minutes of skiing (actually about 2 2/3 minutes for me) so there is no way that that can improve your stamina.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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snowball wrote:


True, but personally I do it to remind my muscles what they knew before, principally how to carve as I did at the end of the last season, rather than to get better. If I progress, it is on the mountain, having to ski breakable crust or negotiate a steep couloir. For fitness I cycle - an hour in a ski dome gives you at most 20 descents, which is at most 3 minutes of skiing (actually about 2 2/3 minutes for me) so there is no way that that can improve your stamina.[/quote]


It does depend on what you do yes if you exercise regularly ie cycle run etc the benefit is not as great re fitness but in running you can do interval training which has a benefit. Skiing here can be used in a similiar way ie the tow is the rest period prior to the next sprint.
I don't know what level you are as a skier snowball but if skiing steep couloir's then should be pretty good. Even at this level you will see a benefit of year round skiing and intermediates can find they manage to get off that plateau they have been stuck on for so long.

Also you state a few minutes in an hour skiing indoors/plastic but this is not too dissimiliar to being in a resort especially durring school hols you ski a run que( sometimes a long time) for the lift take lift up you don't ski on piste all the time you in reality just do longer interval sessions as above so instead of each interval cycle being a couple minutes tops, each will be anything from that upto half an hour or so.

Never mind the other benefit of supporting local industry that in turn allows our kids to train at a much lower cost for competition than having to jet off to Europe etc on a regular basis.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
8 seconds of skiing (every 2 or 3 minutes) doesn't do anything for stamina. 5 - 50 minutes of skiing off piste before getting on a lift again doesn't compare. I'm not saying don't do it - you can improve technique - but stamina: no. Unless you walk up.
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i can't see how it will do anything for fitness / strength etc. The gym is far better for that. (it is for me anyway, as well as playing other speed / stamina sports)
I spent 2 hours at MK yesterday, my first visit to a snowdome, and it didn't do much for me from the pure skiing aspect, but I had to be on the slope as my 8 year old wasn't allowed on his own, and he had a blast on his snowboard, improving his technique, and playing on the rails and the jump. In 2 hours he got to do a load of jumps and learned a couple of different grabs and jumps. (I've got no idea what sort of grabs - It's like a different language listending to boarders! Puzzled Puzzled ).
I honestly couldn't see a 200-300m run on dodgy snow was doing anything for my technique so I tried a few jumps and rails too on my skiis and had a blast too! So I think from that aspect they are great - trying new things etc. I may take him to hemel for the freestyle evenings and you never know I'll try and learn a bit too - as I've got a feelng I could be spending a considerable part of my next holiday in a freestyle park with him! I may also try a few boarding lessons in one sometime just for the experience.
So IMO, for fitness - absolutely no good at all. for technique, practice etc - maybe, but didn't do anything for me. For messing about with freestyle stuff, skiiers boarding or boarders learning skiiing - 100% thumbs up.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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mountainaddict wrote:
Given their anti-indoor snow stance, is it worth asking where Layne and Corduroy stand on dry slopes

I think I can guess.


Ok, so maybe i was a bit blunt before.
I found it boring because i did go to try and recapture some of that skiing magic you get in the alps....i was just kidding myself.
I think if you can ski and you are already an 'ok' skier then save your money.
If you are a newbie,want to try new kit or learn some new skills or drills then there is value in these places. But if you just want to ski then i wouldn't bother.

For boarders or freestyle skiers then its probably a different kettle of fish. Ramps and rails add variety and fun if thats your thing but for me its not.

Dry slopes? Never been but would give it a wirl in the summer if the chance arose.
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Well as I said some people just do not like them but I used to do at least 30 hours a week on them week in week out all year round unless in resort and it improved my skiing it improved my stamina and strength even though I was a distance and cross country runner as well.
try doing a full day and giving it everything every run if it does not effect you then Clarke Kent I bow to your superhuman strength.

It is no where near as good as being away no argument there, given the choice a few weeks on the real stuff there is no competition, but it keeps the muscles you specifically use for skiing in better shape and with lessons or coaching will improve most skiers abaility.
Join a club be it a race or social or just go with friends and then hit the bar afterwards life is what you make of it and so is a dry slope.

Ask if you can set up gates if it is quiet how often do you do gates on holiday?
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I'm not a fan of fridges in general (it must be maybe 10secs a run even on slalom skis) but I did a few visits spread out during the summer when I was really desperate since it wasn't far to drive and it did seem to help keep my hand in once I got back onto the mountain. As for much enjoyment, working on technique etc. they are far too restrictive for that imo. Any more than 1hr and I'd go mad as would not being able to lap it with zero queues, the lift is so slow I used to catch up on email on my phone (note: staff don't seem to like that)
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Corduroy wrote:
I think if you can ski and you are already an 'ok' skier then save your money.
If you are a newbie,want to try new kit or learn some new skills or drills then there is value in these places.
Do you think good skiers can't improve at an indoor slope?
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speed098,
Quote:

it improved my skiing it improved my stamina and strength...try doing a full day and giving it everything every run if it does not effect you then Clarke Kent I bow to your superhuman strength.

It is no where near as good as being away no argument there, given the choice a few weeks on the real stuff there is no competition, but it keeps the muscles you specifically use for skiing in better shape and with lessons or coaching will improve most skiers abaility.
+1
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Couple of thoughts --- let's take Hemel as an example... If you moved it to the alps it would be a (steepish) nursery slope. If you skied there all day you probably get the same sensations as going inside --- just with more of a tan.

But if you add something to do -- drills, lessons withrob@rar, gates, telemark -- or anything to keep you occupied -- you'll get value out it.

Dryslopes ditto --- I can set 8 gates at Bowles, which gives 8 seconds skiing (give or take) --- but that will be enough to get out of breath by the bottom,,
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I skied more indoors between my last two trips than I had ever done before - I guess I got in 5-6 visits. I think I approached the mountain with much more confidence from day one as a result. I have finally reached the stage of not worrying about 'can I still put in the first turn' when I get off the first lift (is that just me or does everyone go through that at some point in learning?). I also think my skiing had improved between mountain visits. I do drills and practise what I've been shown and I def. think it helped.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Megamum, my thoughts exactly this year. Erm, how do you turn?
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I've been going to XScape Leeds once a month specifically to ski moguls. Believe me you can get a decent work out if you put the effort in on the moguls...

I do think it has helped my mogul skiing, then I sometimes do some one legged drills on the bottom half of the slope...



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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
rob@rar,
Quote:

Do you think good skiers can't improve at an indoor slope?

If we assume a good skier can ski a short moderately steep pitch of artificial snow in the various ways it's possible to do so with decent style and efficiency, it's hard to imagine how much "improvement" can be made. I don't profess to being a legend on ski's but after 25 years, most of them two weeks a year, often stretched to the max in skiing time, I've plenty of miles on the clock and find the challenges in the long steep or bumpy piste, or off piste, none of which is going to be close to being replicated in a dome. Perhaps if I was to undertake a major rebuild of my skiing style, it would be ideal. Just as a golfer reworking his swing might spent many hours on the driving range. Let's not forgot though that the question posed by the OP was "are snowdomes worth a visit in summer for a little refresher?" Aside from the building up or reworking of technique through specific drills there are things such slalom practice or jumps and rails that can be reasonably carried out in a dome. I've no doubt if I put my mind to it or hired a coach/instructor I could eek out some kind of tiny improvement. Who knows maybe I would stumble on quite a major deficiency. But I have limited money for sure, time also. So for now, I will do without.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Quote:

it's hard to imagine how much "improvement" can be made


rolling eyes
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Poster: A snowHead
ski, got something to say Puzzled
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Layne wrote:
rob@rar,
Quote:

Do you think good skiers can't improve at an indoor slope?

If we assume a good skier can ski a short moderately steep pitch of artificial snow in the various ways it's possible to do so with decent style and efficiency, it's hard to imagine how much "improvement" can be made..


As someone who had skied as much as you, I have made huge improvements skiing indoors (and outdoors).

I think you underestimate how much improvement can be made indoors.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
kitenski, are those artificially made moguls? I wonder how they make the mounds - with a shovel? They look dreadful - I couldn't ski those even on safety of an indoor slope I'd be most put out to rock up at an indoor slope and find those in place! Shocked


Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Tue 25-03-14 22:05; edited 1 time in total
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Can't beat cycling to keep yourself in good skiing shape. Madeye-Smiley
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Megamum, they make them by moving the snow up into a bigger depth in one area of the slope and then they're 'made' by skiing or so I'm told by one of the CFe guys. If you are planning to go to CFe (I know you do occasionally) then check the calendar as they have them quite a bit though mostly mid week I think. And to reassure you, they are tough indoors IMO as they are usually just in a narrow section say 2 or 3 wide and up close to one side, so one wrong move and you could wipe out folks on the lift Laughing I think it's easier to learn them on a real mountain with more space.
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Looks like fun if they have the bumps at CFe will have to get down there when I get back Madeye-Smiley
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kitenski,
Quote:
[]As someone who had skied as much as you, I have made huge improvements skiing indoors (and outdoors).

I think you underestimate how much improvement can be made indoors.


This appears to be slowly drifting into a "helmet" like thread. But sod it in for a penny in for a pound. I've no doubt that if I paid my £15/£20 for an hour and skied that mogul slope however many times you can in an hour, several times, I have no doubt there would be some improvement in my mogul skiing. If I did that for a couple of years or more, say once a week, then I have no doubt there would be a huge improvement in my mogul skiing. Realistically there are a miniscule number of skiers who would do that. The time, money and dare I say it dedication involved would be too much.

Personally, at this stage of my life, with my domestic situation, etc. it's a non starter anyway but I also I've no massive interest in moguls, slalom gates and jumps/rails. If I am in resort I enjoy skiing moguls and may occasionally whisk through a slalom course or park for a change. If I wanted to take either a little more seriously I would consider my local fridge as an option to make that happen. But really this is all tinkering around the edge of the argument.

I am volleyball coach. Every week I run a session, sometimes two, involving lots of drills and practice, just as people have discussed in relation to domes. But a big difference is I do it in the full court/hall environment. Drills can start small and expand into the full environment. Just like they do in the mountains. I can run some drills in my front room or even in the garden. And indeed I've told beginners they can practice in those environments. But the more experienced the players the less a very restricted environment is going to be of any use. Is that a comparable example. Who knows. But there have been quite a few people saying that. The shortness of the slope, the lack of variation in the slope, etc. just limits the possibilities. Not to mention the cost.

Anyway some may see at as a retraction, I'll call it a clarification. If you go often enough, and work hard enough, even an experienced skier could make improvements to their skiing. But realistically for 99.9% of them that isn't going to happen and/or cost justifiable. If you head up say once a month during the off season and just ski, IMO you won't improve, assuming that is an aim, and you may aswell save you money. To be clear that is for someone not taking lessons, being coached, doing some specific training... i.e., me and most of the people I know who ski.
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Megamum, made by the piste basher apparently, define dreadful, I call them fun Smile

Layne, as you say,it all depends what your skiing aims are, horses for courses.

If you live in the uk and want to technically advance your skiing or want to pass technical exams or gain qualifications then indoor is great. If you don't and your happy doing what you do, then it's not.
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Layne
you are right it does take a different kind of dedication and hey maybe even some warped twisted form to boot, as I have said it is not for everyone but on the flip side cost if you look into it does not have to pan out at £15-20 an hour CFe does a weekly pass for £40 which if you pay the yearly membership goes down to £28 book two hours at a time ( come off go to bookings and book more time so if quiet ski best part of the day ) and excludes some special sessions.
My local dry slope Ski Rossendale Tues-Thur 3-6pm £5 an hour and on Friday that is 3-9pm for £5 an hour or pay an extra fiver for some coaching.

As the season comes to a close these prices may change but it does show the cost does not have to be as high as some may think though dare say for some the bordem of repetition on such a small slope will be even higher than any percieved cost.

Nope don't see it as a retraction simple point is there is no one way suits all and thank god or everyone would go to the same resort hit the same lift first run and pinball into everyone else down the same run.
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IMV a half decent skier won't gross dollar one from an English slope. Yes it can be [limited] fun for 1/2 an hour, but one lesson 'out there' on the right terrain with a decent instructor will probably be more rewarding than several hours on a dry slope here with a mediocre instructor.

Look at the pitch of a mogul field out 'there' and the pitch of Xcape. Yes, it may 'help', but in reality would the pain be worth the gain? I think not.
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