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Chamonix: oil on chairlifts....ski jackets ruined.

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
alex99, I see you're based in London; I have to say my white ski jacket has stayed a lot cleaner than the beautiful white wool coat I was given as a present when I was living in London and using public transport all the time - I eventually gave up on it because the dry cleaning bills were horrendous! The oil on jacket thing has only ever happened once after many, many trips on a chairlift… hopefully it stays that way because I'd never remember to think about taking the outside seats each time.
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alex99 wrote:
Bode Swiller, yeah its a reasonable offer if you have the receipts...


Photoshop... it's what it's for.

Or get a letter from the retailer.

Write to the tourist director if you have no luck.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
you could try to sue them in the French equivalent of "small claims court". You'll have to do some googling but some experience here: http://www.connexionfrance.com/letters-french-justice-small-claims-worked-well-11462-news-article.html
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alex99 wrote:
Bode Swiller,
its a reasonable offer if you have the receipts, but i dont keeep mine longer than a few months normally (lesson learnt)
So as it stands all i'm getting is £32 (in total) for two pretty much new jackets..


Are they new or not? You seem to be saying they are more than a few months old. Though £32 doesn't seem unreasonable, it will go a long way towards getting them cleaned or buying the various things suggested in this thread to do it yourself, problem solved.
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Black jacket next time, maybe? Wink Otherwise I like fatbob answer... rule #5 Smile
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Quote:

Rule 5 is a reference to the "rules" of road cycling


probably a ref to the sH rules, thread somewhere
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hobbiteater wrote:
Quote:

Rule 5 is a reference to the "rules" of road cycling


probably a ref to the sH rules, thread somewhere


Yeah, found that after I hit submit. As I guessed, they are just a lame copy of the Velomanti cycling rules Happy. There probably needs to be another rule, "No copying of the rules for other sports".

Sorry, I'm taking it too seriously. I'll get me coat.
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
all ski kit picks up grubby marks from various lifts; Im surprised there is a compensation system in place.
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sah wrote:
Have you tried cleaning it yet? I've had this happen a few times, it came out* when I washed my jacket in TechWash.

[* my jacket is dark blue though... ]

If that fails, have you looked in to claiming on your travel insurance or house insurance?

Rule 5 is a reference to the "rules" of road cycling, it's something people who think they are "proper" cyclists bang on about instead of actually getting out and riding their bikes. Rule 5 is "toughen up" (well, it's a slightly different wording but you get the idea). It has nothing to do with damage to jackets (in fact, see rule 53). Your typical MAMIL "rules" observer would just go out and buy a new jacket next season anyway so would not have to deal with issues like this. I suspect some people try to pretend there are similar "rules" about skiing too, but it came from cycling and if there is a skiing version it's just a lame copy-cat idea. [Sorry to sound so irritated (or irritating), I think the "rules" are quite funny really, but I didn't see any "rule 5" observing cyclists out the other weekend when I was riding in a biblical storm]



There's no pretending there is a specific SH created version for skiing referenced above. If there are only 2 useful things that have come out of snowheads over 10 years it's The Rules and the Axsman/horizon Skier Ability Positionizer TM

They are deadly serious and woe betide anyone who doesn't observe them.
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Quote:

They are deadly serious and woe betide anyone who doesn't observe them.


Shocked
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sah, Rule 7 self applied in this instance wink
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
I used to wear white ski trousers, look very stylish, but don't half have you on your toes looking where you're sitting for your lunch (split ketchup anyone?) and the grubby inner thighs if you have the misfortune to have to use a drag lift.

Black trousers all the way now!
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fatbob wrote:
Yellow ski kecks come with an automatic +10% skill upgrade but unfortunately a -40% rating in getting tramp like filthy instantly.


Based on the admittedly small sample size of 1, I find the wearers of yellow trousers are dirtier than the trousers themselves Twisted Evil
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Well, it was worth clicking the rules link to find the GNAR link - why was I not aware of this? Smile


Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Wed 5-03-14 11:54; edited 1 time in total
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Quote:


alex99 wrote:

0-6months old jacket: 90% refund
6-12months: 75% refund
12-24montths: 50% refund
24+ months: 20 euros!


Seems amazingly fair to me, but also only reasonable that you're able to provide proof of purchase in order to claim.
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 Poster: A snowHead
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Sideshow_Bob wrote:
fatbob wrote:
Yellow ski kecks come with an automatic +10% skill upgrade but unfortunately a -40% rating in getting tramp like filthy instantly.


Based on the admittedly small sample size of 1, I find the wearers of yellow trousers are dirtier than the trousers themselves Twisted Evil
. Yes but I've never had any complaints Toofy Grin
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Sideshow_Bob, ooh, nasty!!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
meh wrote:
Oil from lifts on ski jackets is amazingly common. It's pretty much unavoidable if you spend any time near anything mechanical. My jacket and trousers are both spotted all over from lifts, the car and other mechanical things that need lubrication.



http://youtube.com/v/mL7n5mEmXJo

On cold and windy days, I wear my insulated ski jacket when I'm chopping wood. The oil spray from the chainsaw and the spitback from the axe in wet wood have peppered it with a nice enough camouflage that I wouldn't even notice an oil drip from a ski lift.
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Quote:

So anyone else experienced this before?


Yeah, I think all my ski kit has got oil stains on. I haven't had much luck with Tech Wash but then my kit has always been light or bright coloured. I am not bothered any more and see it as an inevitable consequence of getting chair lifts! [Note: I cried when I got oil stains on my cream oakly board pants, I was 14. Mum gave me a hug and said it didn't matter, they were only snowboard pants and were bound to get oil and much on them and they still looked lovely anyway.]

I think this comes in the 'suck it up cupcake' category of problems unfortunately. snowHead
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Sideshow_Bob wrote:
fatbob wrote:
Yellow ski kecks come with an automatic +10% skill upgrade but unfortunately a -40% rating in getting tramp like filthy instantly.


Based on the admittedly small sample size of 1, I find the wearers of yellow trousers are dirtier than the trousers themselves Twisted Evil



This wouldn't be a reference to our beloved leader would it? wink
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Quote:
So as it stands all i'm getting is £32 (in total) for two pretty much new jackets.


No, what you're getting is £32 to compensate you for a few spots of oil on the coats. Or are you saying that the coats are now unusable to due the flecks of oil?

Definitely Rule 5.
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Another helpful friendly thread. rolling eyes
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Of course they're not unusable, but £16 compensatoion for a jacket which was brand new (i.e. unworn) and now covered in mulitple oil marks (dont know exactly how many but >10) is not reasonable.

Likewise asking for proof of purchase when the lift director saw us wearing the jackets, inspected the damage on them, wrote on the report the model/type of jacket/condition etc (he could see it was brand new, the white one didnt have a single mark on it) doenst seem reasonable either.

But like i said earlier, lesson learnt....keep receipts and dont sit in the middle on leaking lifts Smile

Will try the cleaning tips so thanks for them.
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Where are all these leaking lifts? I've never come across it..
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davkt, just to confirm. One jacket was bought a year ago but unworn, the other purchased about 2yrs ago and worn for 2 weeks. We arent seasonnaires and dont live near the slopes so 1 weeks ski plus a weeekend is normally the max per year.
So normally keep my jackets for 5+yrs so (i.e. 10 weeks ski) before replacing.
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alex99 wrote:

I only wear my jacket for about a week a year, so although it’s a couple of years old (not exactly sure as I don’t have the receipt).... it’s pretty much brand new.


alex99 wrote:

ok yeah but oil marks all over a new jacket is pretty annoying


alex99 wrote:

the gf's one was unworn so she was understandably frustrated.
Likewise I know the jakcets still work/doesnt affect performance....but in the same way a dent on a new car doesn't affect performance either, just a bit frustrating!


alex99 wrote:

i dont keeep mine longer than a few months normally (lesson learnt)
So as it stands all i'm getting is £32 (in total) for two pretty much new jackets.


alex99 wrote:

Of course they're not unusable, but £16 compensatoion for a jacket which was brand new (i.e. unworn) and now covered in mulitple oil marks (dont know exactly how many but >10) is not reasonable.


alex99 wrote:

just to confirm. One jacket was bought a year ago but unworn, the other purchased about 2yrs ago and worn for 2 weeks. We arent seasonnaires and dont live near the slopes so 1 weeks ski plus a weeekend is normally the max per year.
So normally keep my jackets for 5+yrs so (i.e. 10 weeks ski) before replacing.


Sorry, it's not quite clear yet how old or unworn they were, or how often you use them. Could you clarify?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
sue or threaten to sue them. it won't cost you anything (or very little) and they might cave in rather than have to go to the trouble of fighting you in court - even if it just "small claims court".
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fatbob wrote:
This wouldn't be a reference to our beloved leader would it? wink


You might very well think that, I couldn't possibly comment Cool
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Alex – I’m surprised by peoples dismissive reaction to this if I had a 24 month old jacket spoiled which and was offered 20 euros I would be well peeved

I’ve never seen this in any other resort has anyone else – is it relatively common in Cham?

I agree there is a level of acceptable wear & tear using lifts but dripping oil can’t be acceptable can it especially for the price of the tickets - Is there small print covering this in the conditions when buying lift tickets?
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Johnor,
Quote:

I agree there is a level of acceptable wear & tear using lifts but dripping oil can’t be acceptable can it especially for the price of the tickets

Not saying its not a PITA but its a damn sight more acceptable than many other things that can happen to lifts if they are not maintained.
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 Poster: A snowHead
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sah wrote:
hobbiteater wrote:
Quote:

Rule 5 is a reference to the "rules" of road cycling


probably a ref to the sH rules, thread somewhere


Yeah, found that after I hit submit. As I guessed, they are just a lame copy of the Velomanti cycling rules Happy. There probably needs to be another rule, "No copying of the rules for other sports".

Sorry, I'm taking it too seriously. I'll get me coat.


I think you are taking it too seriously! Smile I don't think anyone actually claimed they were original skiing rules.

And I doubt Velomanti were the first people to say 'Rule number whatever, toughen the f**k up' - it's probably been said a billion times before - in fact no doubt quite a few of 'their' rules have probably been borrowed from other sports, or other people - they were just the first to put them together in a nice neat format and claim them as their own.

Oh dear, now I'm taking it too seriously. I'll get my coat too... wink
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blahblahblah wrote:
Another helpful friendly thread. rolling eyes


Another cryptically antagonistic comment. wink

boardiac wrote:
sue or threaten to sue them. it won't cost you anything (or very little) and they might cave in rather than have to go to the trouble of fighting you in court - even if it just "small claims court".


Obviously you have sympathy with the OP's plight but where do you think the entitlement/litigation mentality should stop ? There're a zillion little opportunities to demand compensation from a ski area operator ranging from base damage through clipping a stone in the snow, to scraping the paint on your helmet with a chairlift bar. Oil spots on a jacket doesn't seem much different from any other to me. If you don't want to risk using their facilities, you've always the option of walking up a mountain to ski it.

It's a shame that this American led nonsense is invading mainland Europe and England too. Here, the small claims court sheriff would tell the claimant to get to f..., or if they'd engaged their own lawyer the court would just cite caveat emptor or somesuch and they'd end up with two lots of costs.
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Johnor, thanks

Why I’m slightly annoyed is this was completely preventable. They continued to operate the lift and not warn people even though they knew it was leaking.
Ok maybe don’t shut the lift but at least tell/warn people (e.g a sign or verbal warning) so they have a choice of whether to take the lift or not. Does that sound unreasonable?

Like you say lift passes aren’t cheap (50euros a day for the mont blanc unlimited pass)
Also the demands for proof of purchase even though they could see our jackets and knew they were unmarket except for the oil.

Anyway the reason for the post was to:
1. Find out if this is a common problem (it seems others have experienced it in Chamonix)
2. See if there were any suggestions as to what I could do (thanks for the cleaning tips..will give them a go)
3. Warn others who weren’t aware.

So I think we are done…
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(and just to confirm, there was never any intention of going down the US/legal route...)
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alex99, I didn't read it that you were. My comments were aimed at the others who thought that you should.
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alex99 wrote:
davkt, just to confirm. One jacket was bought a year ago but unworn, the other purchased about 2yrs ago and worn for 2 weeks. We arent seasonnaires and dont live near the slopes so 1 weeks ski plus a weeekend is normally the max per year.
So normally keep my jackets for 5+yrs so (i.e. 10 weeks ski) before replacing.


But why do these need replacing? Is the jacket not performing as it should, it sounds an overstatement of things to me to say it is 'ruined' over a few marks. Have you tried to clean the jacets using the advice above or get them cleaned? (No idea what your jackets are made from but here is the official advice from Gortex on getting rid of oil http://www.goreprotectivefabrics.com/remote/Satellite/Caring-for-GORE-TEX-Products/Care-Instructions-GORE-TEX-Outerwear) I'm sure every other fabric has similar.
Stuff you wear in the mountains will get marked, unlucky it happened on the first of second use but that's just the way of things.
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moffatross wrote:
blahblahblah wrote:
Another helpful friendly thread. rolling eyes


Another cryptically antagonistic comment. wink



Not really, it was a fair question and some answers were helpful, it being a skiing forum some people might have a helpful answer.

Saying man up or " I ski in the same cheap shit I have always used and like it looking grubby", is not helpful.

I like my gloves, they were expensive, and would still be good gloves if they had a big oil stain on them, but if this was caused by the lift dripping oil on them I would be asking a question, and guess what, no receipt as I got them over a year ago.
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T Bar wrote:
Johnor,
Quote:

I agree there is a level of acceptable wear & tear using lifts but dripping oil can’t be acceptable can it especially for the price of the tickets

Not saying its not a PITA but its a damn sight more acceptable than many other things that can happen to lifts if they are not maintained.

T-Bar there is being maintained and being professionally maintained - I'm no expert in the lift systems but do have an engineering background - I wouldnt be happy to leave oil dripping from a machine
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If the dripping oil is not preventable then that’s fine. Its not a huge deal. I understand machinery, I service my car and motorbike myself so I know machines need oil.
But not warning people is the issue here...they knew about it and just shrugged and told me others had complained when i asked.
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Same thing happened on our last trip - an early morning start and one of the first chairs up - my girls, sat in the middle seats of the 4 person chair, got splattered with oil from the cable above as it went through those little wheels. There seemed to be a general 'let's oil all the lift cables' the evening before cause there was a lot of oil splatter around the base of the first few posts of quite a few lifts that morning. Anyway, that evening I used the removable head of (husbands) oral B toothbrush, dipped in the hotel soap bar and scrubbed the splatters. Rinsed and a further rub with the hotel facecloth and it worked a treat. The jackets got a wash in vanish liquid mixed with tech wash on our return - perfect! To be honest I knew it would have been a faff to go and moan to someone with the same outcome as the OP - wasted ski hours! Cool
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