 Poster: A snowHead
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Serriadh,
Just bought some new touring boots with carbon shaft, not tried them on a tour or in bed yet though.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| DB wrote: |
TTT,
Similar experience here - mainly ski with Austrians who skied from an early age. 90mm is the max width although most are sub 80mm. They do tend to use old technique on new skis and favour short wedln turns though. Suspect they don't go for wide rocker skis as their technique doesn't match the ski so they feel very little benefit or difference between the newer generation of skis.
Arno,
fatbob just rumbled you.  |
Plenty of locals around here on big skis - even the 60 plus year olds.
On a pow day at Nordkette everyone is on 120mm plus. The average standard of skier is EXTREMELY high too, more so than anywhere else I've seen.
Guess it depends on if your ski area is more free ride culture or race culture.
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Wed 19-02-14 21:08; edited 1 time in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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TTT, I too saw very few Austrians or Germans in line for a gondola at St Anton on fat skis but then the same was true of Brits on their overpriced rental skis. The very great majority of those I saw that were bearing the clues of offpiste intent (airbag, helipack, dubious goatee, Norrona onesie etc) were on wider skis unless they were in extremo Trab lycra.
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Thu 20-02-14 1:08; edited 1 time in total
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| fatbob wrote: |
| Arno wrote: |
| [/reformedgearwhore] |
We all know is that DPS only need to drop the next generation of rad and you'll be all over it like a freegan in a Tesco skip. |
no - I just act as an "enabler" for people umming and ahing about buying DPS... 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I've also seen plenty of local skis on fat skis in different resorts heading off-piste and makes sense that it depends on the resort. Its just a perception that a local with a one own ski appears to be generally on something narrower than a Brit.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| under a new name wrote: |
| what I meant was the opposite - time travel your 80s skier (presuming that they are actually reasonably competent, e.g. able to carve their skinny skis) and I don't think you'd notice an immense difference .... |
I beg to differ, things would be a lot brighter and chic ....
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| clarky999 wrote: |
| Guess it depends on if your ski area is more free ride culture or race culture. |
Agree with that, around Schladming very few fat skis to be seen, quite a few ski tourers but tends to be dedicated touring gear. Down the road in Zauchansee attracts a few more fats but it's got more a rep as freeride area, though my local hills are just as good, well better as less fats to compete with.
Vaguely back OT, I've known several people make a switch to fat skis that have enabled them to slow plough, stem turn, lean back, etc in the off piste a bit easier than they did previously. Does very little or even reverses their skills progression. I tend to think get used to one set of all rounder skis in all conditions will make someone a better skier in the long run. Once you have a decent range of skills and time on snow then you benefit more from skis at either end of the spectrum.
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| waynos wrote: |
| I've known several people make a switch to fat skis that have enabled them to slow plough, stem turn, lean back, etc in the off piste a bit easier than they did previously. Does very little or even reverses their skills progression. |
This is what I expect happens to quite a few people who jump to using fat rocker skis all the time without having a good skill base first. They convince themselves they are better skiers (the ski has made them a better skier as they get down things offpiste without falling over that they couldn't before) when in fact the reverse could well be true.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Again I really think it depends on the persons approach to developing their skiing. If the kit makes their bad skiing easier then they equally might be more inspired to get better at skiing rather than continue being terrible just because it got a bit easier. I don't think I'd recommend just buying fat skis to anyone as an approach to getting better at skiing. But skiing fat skis off-piste will definitely feel like a relative improvement to the skier so I can see why they'd describe themselves as better (e.g. Weathercam's thread on his wifes new skis).
One of my friends just went from 90mm skis to 125mm rockered planks (moved to the west coast US) and loves them because they make untracked powder awesome but he is still having problems in tracked snow because his fundamental technique is a bit agricultural. My recommendation to him was the same as when he was having very similar problems on the narrower skis here in Iceland... get some lessons. For whatever reason he isn't inclined to do that and is reasonably good at self-coaching so perhaps he'll figure it out. Fundamentally the fat skis aren't holding him back his approach to learning to ski is.
I'd definitely agree that some people try to fix a technique deficit with cash by buying gear though.
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Another question - is using euipment that makes skiing easier always better for your technique?
e.g. if someone tends to lean back are they better getting wider rocker skis that allow more lean back (esp. offpiste) without falling over or using a shorter ski on piste (e.g. short ski, blades etc) that will let them know when they are in the back seat?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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DB, they are better getting lessons to correct fundamental problems with their skiing.
I don't think rockered skis make it easier to lean back or 'allow more'. They are just harder to stay centered on.
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Fri 21-02-14 11:20; edited 1 time in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| DB wrote: |
Another question - is using euipment that makes skiing easier always better for your technique?
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So this is an argument that skiing fat skis everywhere is better for your technique as they are harder to ski on piste 
I think what meh says is right, improvement has far more to do with the skiers attitude than the skis they are on. For me getting fat (non rockered) skis helped my skiing when I was just starting to ski off piste as they did what I wanted more easily than my carvers, they gave me the confidence to try skiing in places I wouldn't have done with my carvers and I didn't fall over nearly as much. I've been skiing fatter skis for my main ski for 4-5 years now and my skiing has really improved in this time, both on and off piste, on skinny, fat, rockered or non rockered skis. I find you need to make little adjustments between skis, I need to drive the stiffer skis, my soft, rockered skis need a really centred stance, but I think all these little adjustments help your skiing improve as well. A decent skier should be able to adjust for the skis they are on the same as the will adjust their skiing to the snow conditions.
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I bought my first pair of skis three years ago from a friend who had got a bad injury and no longer wanted to ski. they were one yeaer old Head icon tt20. I never really knew anything about skis but as he gave me them for £100 i took them. Skied two holidays on them and absolutely love them first thing in the morning on nice crisp pisted snow. Move on to 2 in the afternoon and i was a wreck and had no confidence at all using only my leg strength to stop me spending a lot more time on my face. I just could not ski the chopped up stuff on them. This year i tried a couple of pairs at Braehead from Ellis Brigham and bought a pair of Dynastar outland 80 pro. My skiing has improved beyond all my expectations and i even enjoy skiing over the moguls. They are all mountain skis but they don't have a massive rocker and they are pretty good on piste as well as off which is another new thing to me which i love.
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You know it makes sense.
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My view of how new skis CAN improve your skiing -
It's not because they make stuff easier (although they obviously can do that)
It's because they give you positive feedback when you do the right technical stuff - which builds your confidence in doing the right thing, which makes you do it more, which makes you better at it.
Examples:
1. from 200m skinny slalom skis to my first modern "shaped" ski - I could carve on skinny skis but only in quite limited conditions (moderate angle, really wide, some give in the snow). On the new skis the "window" for carving opened up so I got to practice setting high edge angles, bending the skis to steer, etc much more. When I did it, it felt great. SO I did it more. This made me better at it
2. from fairly light soft shaped skis to stiffer/more burly ones - found I had much more potential to hold an edge on really hard snow, so I practiced this a lot more, really helped improve the dlicacy and precision of transitions
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I've spent the last few years skiing more and more (started when I was 5, which was a very long time ago) and having a reasonable amount of lessons.
Last season I got some new 'fat' skis, which are 88 underfoot and made it a lot easier for me to ski certain conditions. I never felt like they made me a better skier though.
Last week I got new boots, they have made a huge difference to my ability IMO, I am now officially awesome, in my head at least, and have gone up from the top 5% of holiday skiers to the top 3% at least. Still in the bottom 1% of locals though and went out with my 5 year old on Sunday who isn't far off kicking my bottom off piste. A serving of humble pie is never far away from my plate.
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Poster: A snowHead
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^
agree with that - don't think fat skis have improved my skiing either. They make skiing easier and more fun in certain conditions though. Don't think they have helped me improve technique though. Exception might be getting better at jumps and drops - they give me more confidence to land stuff off-piste - less likely to sink one ski and stack it - so I have been able to practice that more.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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As an early intermediate skiier, at the moment with just one set of skis, I took my first real venture off the groomers in feb (a yellow itinerary run after fresh snowfall and dabbling by the sides) and was encouraged to start and develop the skills here on my skinny by modern standards 76mm go anywhere all mountain skis. Apparently in a fair few trips time, I'll have some of the technique required to then appreciate the fat skis. I like this approach as it is making sure I use lessons and develop technique rather than relying on kit to bail me out
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FAQ
