 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Bode Swiller, Thanks - the cross posting probably won't do any harm as some of us don't wander over to off-piste very often and seeing as it will be a product that they will say is not designed for off-piste use it probably makes (more?) sense to post this on The Piste 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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If the CSS chaps took the criticism on board and reworked their product then 99% of people would likely have no issue with it. Instead what has happened is that the criticism has been ignored and the same dodgy product rebranded.
Ducking blatant safety issues and appearing dishonest by rebranding when faced with criticism does the company no good in terms of building goodwill with the customer base.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Yep, some sharp business practices going on, I'm loosing track of all the names/uses this thing has been sold under, every time the criticism from the target users rises it changes. This time round it seems to be trying to ramp up the fear of on piste avalanches, yes they happen, though given the number of people caught in them each year and the millions of person days spent on piste skiing each year the risk is vanishingly small!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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How on earth could this be short-listed for an innovation award (that's what they say on their own website)? How is it an innovation to take a product, remove half of it's functionality, and thereby come up with a product that really serves no purpose?
It does seem a bit like Dragons Den when all the panel do their best to tell the poor sap of an inventor that they've wasted enough of their life savings on the combined automatic potato peeler cum back scrubber and you know they are just not listening and wondering if they just spend a bit more on the packaging of the prototype it will fly off the shelves. Surely they either need to write-off the spend to date or change this product into a proper transceiver.
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As I mentioned in the other thread, irrespective of whether you think it is suitable to have a transmit only beacon, there's an elephant in the room which is still being ignored by CSS.
Since the beacon can't meet the the required standards for transceivers due to the fact they can't receive ( http://www.etsi.org/technologies-clusters/technologies/radio/avalanche-beacons ), what evidence can be provided that they meet ALL the other relevant aspects of the standard, including operating termperatures, battery life, frequency drift/calibration.
Without evidence to demonstrate that these devices will operate to a standard that matches ALL aspects of the transceiver standards except the receive mode, then one cannot even say they are fit for the on-piste, in resort purpose for which they are being marketed.
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gbium, a lot of the time you pay to enter this sort of competition. Dunno if that's the case here though.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| meh wrote: |
| gbium, a lot of the time you pay to enter this sort of competition. Dunno if that's the case here though. |
Even if it's free to enter, I don't imagine they get THAT many entrants, and you could quite easily be up for 'consideration' based on some clever marketing schpiel right up to the point someone who has a clue actually looks at it.
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Why does anyone need transceivers on piste? I'm confused as to why someone thinks there is a market for these. If I'm missing something please put me right.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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thecramps, the British are obsessed with the idea than practically everything outside their front doors is 'dangerous' or 'extreme'. He's trying to frighten parents, and probably succeeding.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Lizzard, I thought it was something like that, Don't forget "outside" is full of paedo's too.
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Does anyone have a link to, or resources for any stats relating to avalanches in resort or on/over pistes and the number of injuries or deaths from those? I'm sure I've seen stats somewhere but I can't, for the life of me, find anything now.
It would be interesting putting the risk into context
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You know it makes sense.
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| feef wrote: |
Does anyone have a link to, or resources for any stats relating to avalanches in resort or on/over pistes and the number of injuries or deaths from those? I'm sure I've seen stats somewhere but I can't, for the life of me, find anything now.
It would be interesting putting the risk into context |
About 1 death per 100 million skier days, at a an educated guess.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| davidof wrote: |
| feef wrote: |
Does anyone have a link to, or resources for any stats relating to avalanches in resort or on/over pistes and the number of injuries or deaths from those? I'm sure I've seen stats somewhere but I can't, for the life of me, find anything now.
It would be interesting putting the risk into context |
About 1 death per 100 million skier days, at a an educated guess. |
As many as that? 
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Poster: A snowHead
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Having seen CSS at skishows a few times his sales pitch is basically scare mongering to first time family skiers, talking up the very rare on piste avalanches that do any harm while blissfully ignoring the tens of millions of hours of avalanche free piste skiing every season (was also talking about in-bounds avalanches in the US which of course includes a load of decidedly not on piste ski terrain!). As to finding someone buried with one he did concede mum or day should have a proper beacon but flounced off to accost someone else when we asked how his device helped if it was the person with beacon who got buried!
Oh and after Toastertalby had set him right about the shortcomings of his product he was basically questioning my sanity that she was allowed off piste, never seemed to occur to him she is a very capable little skier who can get down pretty much anything in control and at a speed of her choosing and when she is off piste she is with one of the best instructors going who she has skied with regularly and knows what she can do!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| thecramps wrote: |
| davidof wrote: |
| feef wrote: |
Does anyone have a link to, or resources for any stats relating to avalanches in resort or on/over pistes and the number of injuries or deaths from those? I'm sure I've seen stats somewhere but I can't, for the life of me, find anything now.
It would be interesting putting the risk into context |
About 1 death per 100 million skier days, at a an educated guess. |
As many as that? |
Must print out this table from BMJ and ask him where the risk he is protecting against fits next time I come across him!
http://www.bmj.com/content/suppl/2003/09/25/327.7417.694.DC1
Familiar risks
This table has been compiled by the theme issue editorial team from the sources listed below
Some familiar risks The chance they will happen
Getting three balls in the UK national lottery 1 in 11
Dying on the road over 50 years of driving 1 in 85
Transmission of measles 1 in 100
Dying of any cause in the next year 1 in 100
Annual risk of death from smoking 10 cigarettes per day 1 in 200
Getting four balls in the UK national lottery 1 in 206
Needing emergency treatment in the next year after being injured by a can, bottle, or jar 1 in 1000
Needing emergency treatment in the next year after being injured by a bed mattress or pillow 1 in 2000
Death by an accident at home 1 in 7100
Getting five balls in the UK national lottery 1 in 11 098
Death by an accident at work 1 in 40 000
Death playing soccer 1 in 50 000
Death by murder 1 in 100 000
Being hit in your home by a crashing aeroplane 1 in 250 000
Death by rail accident 1 in 500 000
Drowning in the bath in the next year 1 in 685 000
Getting six balls in the UK national lottery 1 in 2 796 763
Being struck by lightning 1 in 10 000 000
Death from new variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease 1 in 10 000 000
Death from a nuclear power accident 1 in 10 000 000
Most risks given are approximate
Sources:
Calman K, Royston G. Risk language and dialects. BMJ 1997;315:939-42.
Adams A, Smith A. Risk perception and communication: recent developments and implications for anaesthesia. Anaesthesia 2001;56:745-55.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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How is he actually selling enough to stay in business?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| davkt wrote: |
Getting six balls in the UK national lottery 1 in 2 796 763
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Hmm I calculate the odds of 6 numbers as 13,983,815 to 1
I wonder how they got that number
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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thecramps, By constantly branding his product, then targeting a new market (general cheap beacon replacement, training only use, kid protection to name a few) with scare tactic marketing
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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feef, Yep they have got that one wrong
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davkt, Does he really believe in this or is he on the make do you think?
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| Quote: |
Some familiar risks The chance they will happen
Getting three balls in the UK national lottery 1 in 11
Dying on the road over 50 years of driving 1 in 85
Transmission of measles 1 in 100
Dying of any cause in the next year 1 in 100
Annual risk of death from smoking 10 cigarettes per day 1 in 200
Getting four balls in the UK national lottery 1 in 206
Needing emergency treatment in the next year after being injured by a can, bottle, or jar 1 in 1000
Needing emergency treatment in the next year after being injured by a bed mattress or pillow 1 in 2000
Death by an accident at home 1 in 7100
Getting five balls in the UK national lottery 1 in 11 098
Death by an accident at work 1 in 40 000
Death playing soccer 1 in 50 000
Death by murder 1 in 100 000
Being hit in your home by a crashing aeroplane 1 in 250 000
Death by rail accident 1 in 500 000
Drowning in the bath in the next year 1 in 685 000
Getting six balls in the UK national lottery 1 in 2 796 763
Being struck by lightning 1 in 10 000 000
Death from new variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease 1 in 10 000 000
Death from a nuclear power accident 1 in 10 000 000
Most risks given are approximate
Sources:
Calman K, Royston G. Risk language and dialects. BMJ 1997;315:939-42.
Adams A, Smith A. Risk perception and communication: recent developments and implications for anaesthesia. Anaesthesia 2001;56:745-55.
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Mmm typical bloody doctors they give a risk without stating what it refers to. Who has a 1:50,000 chances of dying playing soccer? Someone who never plays soccer or a middle aged man with a heart condition who plays once a year for his pub. The two risks are very different.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| davkt wrote: |
| feef, Yep they have got that one wrong |
Hmm.. shame.. As it could easily be used to throw doubt on the rest of the figures and so allow someone else to fit theirs into a suitable position.
| T Bar wrote: |
Mmm typical bloody doctors they give a risk without stating what it refers to. Who has a 1:50,000 chances of dying playing soccer? Someone who never plays soccer or a middle aged man with a heart condition who plays once a year for his pub. The two risks are very different. |
I believe it's averaged out.
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| Quote: |
| Dying on the road over 50 years of driving 1 in 85 |
I know statistics doesn't necessarily *quite* work like this, but really?
Assume UK population 65 million (yes, it's a bit less). That means 750,000 of people alive today will die in the next fifty years on the road. That's 15,000 per annum. AFAIK the annual death rate on the roads is about 2,000. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reported_Road_Casualties_Great_Britain This suggest to me the risk of dying on the roads is much, much lower than they suggest.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Guess that one is a global figure, we've got one of the safer road networks but others balance it upwards! Even the US death rates are nearly 3 times ours and China about 8x ours.
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