 Poster: A snowHead
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David Murdoch, you reminded us what this thread is all about: the highest form of skiing. 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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conor, big enough to trip over is what I use.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Remember the question the ART of skiing, which is subjective, couloirs, deep powder, a steep, and big bumps.
What you have not achieved you desire, what you have conquered you can dismiss.
Skis have made off piste more accessible in recent years but the solitude of being away from the crowds accentuates the achievement. Creaming down a bump field feels good, but as good?
YES better IMO
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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What does BTW stand for?
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By The Way 
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BTW Moguls are just bad piste preparation.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I regularly tell my clients that here in Whistler, we store the moguls in the summer in a large refrigerated warehouse in Function Junction, just down the road.
And then in the winter we get them out and roll them out again like a carpet.
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brian
brian
Guest
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Nice round bumps made by good skiers are great. The misshapen efforts of nervous sideslippers (or even worse trayheads) can be no fun at all.
I did a lot of bump skiing as a youngster (the White Lady at Cairngorm and the Tiger at Glenshee used to grow some beauts) and have a nice matching set of lumpy knees as a result 
These days, short skis makes them easier but my lack of fitness makes up for it !
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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brian, Ah yes, the Tiger. Quite appropriately named. A fine run.
I am going to slightly contradict myself and suggest that given the choice between perfect powder and perfect bumps, I'd probably have to go for the powder. But good bumps skiing is a higher skill.
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I wonder if mogul skiing is a dieing art? Of course I mean relatively, where there are skiers there will be moguls and they will need skiing!
When I worked a ski season about 12 years ago, we used to ski off-piste most of the time but when conditions were grotty we'd hit the bumps (of course we did do some groomer cruising too but mainly to get around). With modern skis, there are almost no snow conditions that are so unpleasant that you would be put off skiing off-piste (you can probably deal with crust, I guess rutted ice might still repel you). Given this, where are future generations of mogul specialists going to come from? Also, with more and more people focusing on carving, I suspect the general standard of short-swing turns (the basis of mogul skiing) is deteriorating.
Don't get me wrong, I really like skiing bumps and I do think big steep icy bumps are a really tough challenge.
J
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You know it makes sense.
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I heard a story about ski instruction for novice or imtermediate skiers, they were being taught about turning around small moguls. The French ski teacher had a poor command of English. He pointed at a mogul and asked what is it called in English. Their answer was "gonad" The teacher then proceded to instruct and demonstrate: plant your pole firmly on the top of the gonad. Spear the gonad with your pole. Given their laughs for the rest of the lesson he must have realised that he had been had.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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jedster, when everyone's off piste, assuming a reasonable gap between snow falls, we'll just end up with "off piste" bumps!
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Poster: A snowHead
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Hmmmmnn..!!
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Mon 28-11-05 17:34; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, I actually don't agree that moguls are the highest form of skiing. To ski them well is a fine art but you can easily navigate your way through them and bail out if you need to in most cases. Off-piste you can get anything and there may not be a bail out zone at all and your are stuck with those conditions until they change.
Try wind blown crust or knee high cement when the snow is melting way too quickly and you get stuck up the hill. You will need way more skill than it takes to get down a mogul field IMO. Not much fun at all if you have 1000m vertical to go...!!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Try wind blown crust or knee high cement when the snow is melting way too quickly and you get stuck up the hill. You will need way more skill than it takes to get down a mogul field IMO.
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Well, I think I'd agree - to ski wind blown crust and knee high cement WITH ELEGANCE is probably more difficult than skiing steep icy bumps with elegance. Getting down crust and cement is not in itself difficult if you just survival ski it (pop, stem whatever)
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I think there's a little problem in alot f people's thinking here:
Those who are advocating bumps as the greatest test of skill are talking about skiing bumps gracefully vs. getting down hard off-piste
Those who are advocating hard off-piste as the greatest test of skill are talking about skiing off-piste gracefully vs. getting down bumps
Obviously we should be comparing skiing bumps gacefully with skiing hard-off piste gracefully. In my opinion it'd be pretty tough to find something harder to ski well than a steep, tightly packed tree run in poor snow with lots of little cliff drops (3-5 feet).
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Gordyjh, BUt Gordy, the question isn't what's more fun (we could easily argue that until the cows are let out of the Alpage) but what's the "higher" form of ski technique.
ponder, a good point, as is JT's. Maybe we need a few qualifications - i.e. what's the highest art that competent recreational skiers should aspire to? I am/was suggesting that skiing tough bumps gracefully is a higher art than skiing tough off-piste gracefully. I will confess I hadn't factored in cliff jumping.
Maybe another way of expressing it is that with modern kit I think anyone can ski toerably well in average off piste conditions but no one has yet invented a ski that zipper line bumps for you. No, snow blades are not skis and don't count.
Have the cows come home yet?
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Just gonna throw a metaphor out there, and see what people think:
- Skiing bumps well is like playing a tough piece of music very well
- Skiing hard off-piste well is like having a really good jam/impro session
Which one is the higher "art" is somewhat of a matter of opinion, but both are definitely impressive, both require alot of skill, but both use slightly different skill sets.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Gordyjh, BUt Gordy, the question isn't what's more fun (we could easily argue that until the cows are let out of the Alpage) but what's the "higher" form of ski technique
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But DM, what I am trying to say is that what constitutes the "highest" form of skiing is beside the point - I don't spend £££££££££££ every year in pursuit of some noble, mythical artistic goal - I just want to have fun and I suspect that is the aim of almost every snowhead.
ponder, isn't that a simile? (Pedantic is my middle name.)
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Gordyjh, and as long as you are having fun then that is the main thing. One of my objectives, sad geek that I am is the "perfect turn". Nope no definition, just a better one than the last.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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For those that enjoyed the little vids I posted on this thread earlier, I've uploaded another one that you might find interesting/amusing in a different thread:
http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=10812
It's in a Flash Video format, so you will need a little stand alone Flash Player - full instructions given on the other post.
Again, please *Right Click, Save Target As* - opening it in a window won't do anything.
Cheers.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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jedster, "Getting down crust and cement is not in itself difficult if you just survival ski it (pop, stem whatever) - You didn't try to get down where I did last Saturday - completely unskiable - what do you call crust that's unskiable? I would have taken any bumps in the world in preference. Elegance was beyond anbyone - all the tracks are straight zig zags! 
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easiski,
I'd commiserate but as some skiiing is better than no skiing and I did no skiing I'm not feeling that charitable!
Thus far (and I do bow to your much greater experience!) I've always found a way with crust - either it's breakable (and you can break out as well as in) or just about strong enought to ski on if you are really gentle. I guess there might be a mid ground where you crunch through but just can't popout again. Was it true that no-one could ski it? I'd have thought someone had the right blend of weight/surface area to handle it.
BTW - I'm only talking about survival skiing here. I've never managed crust with elegance!
J
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You know it makes sense.
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easiski, I guess that's why they don't use crust in promotional videos
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Gordyjh, no...it's two! 
Pedants of the world unite!
(PS. that final statement is not made literally but metaphorically, and optative mood rather than indicative...which of course would be diametrically opposed to actual practice)
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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What a great discussion. I've skied a fair bit and have reached a reasonable level (but still, I hope, improving). As many have said ^ good freeriding needs a wide range of skills (techniques) and other judgements. I ski lots of moguls and unless they are the size of small cars I tend to ski them in a GS stylee. Having not been skiing for a few months now  and sitting on a sofa it's my opinion that superb mogul skiing is more demanding and takes longer to master. Therefore I would go with the motion moguls are the highest form of skiing.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Motion carried, by a small majority.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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But wouldn't this be a higher form of skiing?
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FAQ
At my level, I love them a bit smaller and not too icy so that I can try to straight line them. The monster moguls are also great just for the challenge but I have neither the fitness nor the skill to straight line those bu*gers (I'm thinking of the likes of Mont Fort in Verbier which is pretty hairy in your 2nd week 
Does it have to reach a certain size or hardness??
