Yes, of course it's skiing. When I get from one end of the pool to the other without touching the bottom I don't have to be Mark Spitz to tell myself I'm swimming.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Megamum wrote:
am I being outskied in terms of ability/technique by someone like your friend or am I only being outskied in terms of bravado?
I think bravado and natural ability make it easier to improve technique. Being fit helps. If you can listen to an instructor and do exactly as they say your technique will improve much more rapidly. If you are afraid of falling or going too fast you won't be doing exactly what the instructor tells you and you will probably end up falling or going to fast. Many of the movements feel alien to start with and you can't really understand why they might work, so you don't commit to them fully. I was confident that I could ski anything groomed well after three week (in one season - with 18 3 hour lessons.) I am still terrible on bumps though. With no decent bump technique it is really hard work, so a 1 hour bump lesson is about the limit and then a day to recover back on the groomers. We are limited to 1 trip a year now due to school and exams, so it is going to take me 18 years to get the same amount of lessons and experience as I did in the first year on piste. Hadn't skied slush until March 2013. Easier than bumps, but it still took a couple of lessons to 'get it'.
I'm sh|t hot at side slipping and have a smoking snowplough,
lynseyf, that's just it isn't it? I too possess both of these, and know when the proverbial has hit the fan and it is useful to deploy them - particularly that side slip - coupled with a traverse you can knock shed loads of height off something that looks diabolical whilst still having sufficient momentum to stick a turn in the moment you hit the sweetest point you can find in the bad deal to repeat in the opposite direction, (about the only thing I find they can't solve is moguls!!) However, I wouldn't term such a descent skiing, although I do take pam w's, point about the swimming pool. When are you skiing and when are you the just the right side of drowning? I just think its an interesting question and I wonder how much over egging of the mix in terms of claimed ability goes on? There was a interesting point made in the other thread that it takes a certain amount of lessons before you start to realise what you don't know, I think there is a lot of truth in that.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Quote:
coupled with a traverse you can knock shed loads of height off something that looks diabolical
Megamum, Have you no balls....OH...hang on
Seriously though, falling on steep stuff with a decent run off doesn't usually hurt as much as catching an edge on a nearly flat green. You should try it a few times.
Megamum, traversing and turning IS skiing. Sure you could do it better, but don't you think that every one of the top ski racers in the world also think "coulda done that better". There is nothing wrong with being in search of the perfect run, but where do you go after that... It's all downhill from there just make sure you don't forget to enjoy yourself along the way.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Megamum, stop taking it so seriously! Life's too short for that... Just click your boots in and go.
As long as you enjoy it. If not, go find something more fun to do - can't imagine what that could be though.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Megamum,
I definitely think it's all skiing just not as good skiing as people tend to think it is!
One thing I always noticed as I was improving is when I made a big step forward, I immediately felt a strong sense of how bad my skiing was previously that I never felt at the time! Sort of "oh that's what being in control REALLY means!"
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Quote:
just not as good skiing as some people tend to think it is!
Yup, I also think this
Quote:
One thing I always noticed as I was improving is when I made a big step forward, I immediately felt a strong sense of how bad my skiing was previously that I never felt at the time! Sort of "oh that's what being in control REALLY means!"
I've just been through this!
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Quote:
just not as good skiing as some people tend to think it is!
we mentioned the video feedback stuff before.
whole group of solid level 7-9's and I think every single one of us said "WTF! I don't ski like that". and the number of weeks on snow amongst the group varied from significantly fewer than me to skiing most of their adult life.
so if those seeking improvement are backseat austrian farmer, skidding mid carve, late grip on turns, ... you can guarantee that pretty much anyone with less experience will be doing the same.
as above... just click in and go, and if there's terrain you don;t like then take a lesson. then you can enjoy ice and moguls and look down on all the shoulder turners looking uphill.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Megamum, these threads have got me thinking too, but I must say despite being nervous still, always will be, I can get down almost anything, albeit slower than many, without hitch, and maybe not looking as graceful as some? BUT I really don't care, I love being in the mountains, I love skiing and all that goes with it, I rarely fall as my self preservation is excellent and most importantly I am always in control, of course I would love to be able to gracefully squiggle down like many but it's never going to happen, we often discuss how we would like to look whilst skiing and I feel mostly I'm skidding rather than skiing Mr feefee says I'm not carving, I think I am, and, in the nicest possible way, I cant keep my legs close together, probably hip distance apart, or more? I've had the odd lesson here and there and still have masses of room for improvement, I wonder if a lesson at a snow dome would help? It's my lack of confidence that holds me back I think? I don't think about it to much as I always have a great time
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
feefee, you sound at a very similar oint to me, maybe a bit better as although I probably could get down most things, I still choose not to. Maybe we could do some snow dome sessions together in the summer with Inside Out at Hemel? I think that's exactly what the threads about ability make me do i.e. 'think'. It's interesting to see how people perceive their ability and possibly how many have an honest appreciation of their skills. I recall that I thought I was doing OK until I saw last years video footage and was horrified. I think that video is a brilliant teaching aid if only to prove that you are not doing what you think you are doing. I sometimes wonder how my mind could have got it soooo wrong?
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Tue 14-01-14 12:59; edited 1 time in total
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Megamum, yes I'm up for that, although be good to go before our next trip if possible?? Also interesting how you find helping others helps you, I am confident when it comes to helping others, I need to take more beginners with me on holiday!
Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much on Tue 14-01-14 12:26; edited 1 time in total
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
The video should also show how trying something to fix a problem makes you ski better too.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Completely agree with some of the comment on not being competitive with skiing. I have played a lot of sports (football, tennis, running) and am extremely competitive with these but this is because it is a sport (as much as you play because you enjoy it, you also play to win). However, I'm a recreational skiier - I'm not racing anyone, I'm not trying to beat anyone, so the main purpose is to enjoy myself. And that's one of the reasons I love it, because I don't have the constant pressure of being competitive.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Whoever said it's down to fitness and state of mind I'd agree with that line of thought.
I know as I've got older I find myself with much more of a sense of 'self preservation'- I'm still only 31 but don't do things or think twice about doing things I might have when I was 21! I've done about 10 weeks skiing now in total and I'm happy with where I'm at as I'm at the stage where I really enjoy myself on a skiing holiday-but I stil have allot to learn.
I had some private lessons a few years back which easily brought my skiing along the most-the instructor told me speed was my friend. I'm a reasonably big bloke 6'3" and about 17st so building up speed isn't a problem I have-point my skis down hill and gravity takes care of the rest! Skiing in control is the challenge which I worked allot on then eventually built the speed up, throw in the fact I've been at varying times of year and had varying conditions (boiler plate to spring slush and everything in between) I can get down pretty much anything without a huge amount of style!
I'm starting to venture more into off piste now where depending on how much fresh snow there is if I'm honest I look like a complete beginner. I can handle bumps up to certain size thanks to a dedicated private bumps lesson last season. I'm going to do a Snoworks course next month in Tignes where I hope to further develop the skill needed to tackle the more variable stuff and off piste.
To sign off, we all learn differently. Skiing is physcially demanding but from what I've seen from various friends etc mental barriers hold people back more than technique/ability.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Megamum, Like I said on the other thread, I can turn both ways, left and right, what more do you need in order to have fun?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Seriously though Megamum, no good will come out of comparing yourself to other people when it comes to skiing (and a lot of life actually). Everyone is different, everyone progresses at different rates, everyone thinks being in control or feeling comfortable feels different. Maybe you should be happy that despite not actually liking skiing that much or getting that many days on snow you have obtained a reasonable level of competance.
I read a quote which went along the lines of you can't be brave unless you are scared to start with so maybe you should be more pleased at your progress because it hasn't come easy to you. I'm not a natural athlete but I love skiing so have put some effort into getting better at it and I'm quite pleased at the level I've reached considering I have zero balance, agility or natural talent
I'm not a natural athlete but I love skiing so have put some effort into getting better at it and I'm quite pleased at the level I've reached considering I have zero balance, agility or natural talent
'Getting down' something is most definitely skiing.
c.f. someone who can't ski, who wouldn't be able to 'get down' it, except probably by falling over and being killed.
ok I'm upgrading myself to an 11 on the IO scale, I'm sh|t hot at side slipping and have a smoking snowplough, I can get down anything
On piste, that maybe true. But off-piste, you can't side slip cut-up snow. You have to actually SKI it.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
abc, it was a joke, but interestingly an instructor I had an on off piste course said he often makes his first turn a plough turn when he doesn't know what the snow conditions are like and wants a nice stable platform to test them, it allowed him to quickly judge what the snow was like and adjust his next turns. I do think a plough is really useful and most beginners seem to be overly keen to get rid of it when nice rounded plough turns are much better in every sense than jagged, zig zagging parallel turn, but's a whole other thread I think.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Take up golf for a couple of months.
. That'll really mess with your head.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
I think I'd prefer a 45deg steep icy black tyvm, and keep my sanity
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
lynseyf, I know it was mostly a joke. But there's quite a bit of truth in it if one is talking about bashed pistes. A sh|t hot side slip does get you down almost everything on piste!
I prefer to test snow condition by entering at an angle, depending on how the snow feels, I can either turn uphill to a stop or downhill to continue. I don't claim to be an expert in off-piste. (I'm not expert on piste either, I'm actually more comfortable off-piste than on, by virtual of spending most of my skiing time off-piste rather than on)
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Megamum, do you think you sometimes let the perfect be the enemy of the good?
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
abc wrote:
On piste, that maybe true. But off-piste, you can't side slip cut-up snow. You have to actually SKI it.
nonsense - sounds like you have level 3 side slipping skillz
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
yeah, I was going to comment on that. I've certainly pulled out the"get out of jail free" sideslip in cut-up snow on numerous occasions
of course you need a bit of gradient but then you wouldnt need to be sideslipping if it was gentle...
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
It's often said in martial arts that one should focus on the journey and not the destination. A student focused on a 'black belt' will take longer to achieve it than one focused on learning in the here and now.
Just like martial arts a beginner skier focuses too much on the 'expert' and how they do their stuff and as a result don't accept the stages they must go through. This whole thing is made worse, for some, by a fear of how others perceive your skill level or aesthetics.
I really suffered with this scenario. I'd previously played a sport professionally and some others to a high level and as a result struggled with being a beginner at skiing. Once I let it all go I made much better progress. It helped to think about it in terms of my martial arts, and other sports. I know from experience, with the odd exception, that the better practitioners of the activity don't pass judgment and all too aware that they have been through the same stages.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
abc wrote:
On piste, that maybe true. But off-piste, you can't side slip cut-up snow. You have to actually SKI it.
Correct. In general you can't ride mountains of deep snow in a sideslip (or a snowplough for that matter). I have seen tourists fail the side-slipping thing prior to inevitable rescue.
On the OP, athletic people can "get down" things after a few hours only. On the other hand, to get to the point when you can ride takes a little longer. It's all a matter of definition, but if you watch people at a resort, IMHO about 5% or fewer are good enough not to have obvious issues (usually the issues are all the same, but that's a different subject).
To learn I'd say you'd need a minimum of about 20 weeks of graft on snow. By that, I mean 20 weeks mucking about won't get you there, you need to work at learning for that sort of time. Some will be quicker, some slower, some will take lessons, others won't.
This is the same with all sports though, isn't it?
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
It's skiing until, on balance, you're not enjoying it. If every descent is a matter of white knuckle survival then I don't think that's skiing, that's just torturing yourself.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
OK, this thread has strayed into my own failing of really wanting to do this skiing lark well - this may be partly due to my own failing in responding to that, probably deserved, assumption. However, it's initial purpose wasn't intended to lead to a discussion of that aspect.
I posted it because I was vaguely amused/intrigued at the sheer number of contributors that rated themselves as adequate skiers when they seemed to have been skiing for a relatively short period of time. I think I have reached a point when I am just starting to appreciate the skills that good skiers have. It just made me wonder if a lot of people really have achieved all those things that I understand are deemed useful to learning to ski, such as muscle memory, skiing on difficult snow in difficult conditions, 'mileage' etc. in that time. I do accept that there are some really gifted individuals who clearly do so, but I wonder how many there are? That was all the thread was a for really - just a thought train................
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
andy wrote:
Quote:
just not as good skiing as some people tend to think it is!
we mentioned the video feedback stuff before.
whole group of solid level 7-9's and I think every single one of us said "WTF! I don't ski like that". and the number of weeks on snow amongst the group varied from significantly fewer than me to skiing most of their adult life.
so if those seeking improvement are backseat austrian farmer, skidding mid carve, late grip on turns, ... you can guarantee that pretty much anyone with less experience will be doing the same.
Video feedback (which I experienced for the first time this season) was truly a revelation and I downgraded my ability rating accordingly...
Megamum - keep working on technique and take lessons by all means, but above all enjoy your time on the slopes!!
HossDoc, I think the use of video has been a real eye opener. I actually discovered that I skied nothing like I saw in mind's eye and it made me really want to make changes.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
We need to set up a thread called "Strictly Come Skiing" where people put up a video clip and people rate them up to level 13. Of course additional marks would be given for style and wearing sexy frocks (esp if worn by the men).
Megamum, I expect that's true for everyone. Certainly everyone in our group. The 1 to 1 criticism on the piste was good too... you think your partner is talking BS, but teh vid proves it all later.
Video quite entertaining too, but shame that more of the complete wipeouts weren't captured.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
What's the IO scale?
I've been on three trips after a crash course at Tamworth. I'm a self confessed 'balls bigger than skill' skier. My partner is more skilled than myself, but I've been mountain biking for years, so kind of got over the fear of going down a mountain at speed and have a little cross over in skills, even if it's just picking a line. This means that I'm usually quicker than her and up for challenging stuff usually beyond my depth. She keeps me reigned in. =)
I can kind of get down anything, but resort to plough turns on the steep stuff (and sliding on the really steep stuff). My main concern is being a danger to others. I don't want to be in a position where my confidence gets so far ahead of my skill that I put others in danger. For this reason I will always take lessons and will never see myself in a position where I no longer need them.
Going to the dry slope this week so they can give me a rollicking. =(
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
dylan32, +1000 for your balls in posting what I didn't want to articulate as a skiing description - I liked the notion of "balls bigger than skill" and identifying the reason why. Also, for realising this and electing to do something about it. It seems to me that there are very few out there that have got to where they are without some sort of 'crash course' as you describe. I wonder if instructors should perhaps spend a little time early on with clients and identify what they might miss out on (esp. safety) if they elect to not maintain the odd lessons here and there as they continue to ski. I don't ever recall such a conversation with an instructor. We ran a thread recently about what contributes to accidents on a mountain, maybe some of the problem is when skiers don't realise how much they could do with learning in order to stay in control and stay safe?
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
Hadn't skied slush until March 2013. Easier than bumps, but it still took a couple of lessons to 'get it'.
just make sure you don't forget to enjoy yourself along the way.
