 Poster: A snowHead
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I've been skiing for almost 20 years though I did have a 5 year break until hitting the slopes again over the last two seasons. I've always felt that my skiing has improved with every trip up until my recent holiday in Morzine. We holidayed in Morzine over Christmas and had really poor snow until we had a heavy overnight snowfall on Christmas Day, 3 days before we left. The problem was that my skiing was awful and for the first time ever I felt as though I'd regressed rather than progressed. I've never fallen over so much and even lost a degree of confidence. The skiing conditions were particularly bad and I had new all mountain ski's that simply didn't carve as well as my old skis. Possibly it was a combination of factors but my skiing was so bad I had to drop away from a group of very strong skiers I was skiing with. I don't fully understand the problem and I don't want to blame my ski's but I seem to have hit the proverbial wall and am thinking on the best way to get past this. Anyone else had this problem and if so how did you get past the problem. The obvious solution seems to be booking some ski lessons on my next trip to have my skiing assessed. I've not had lessons since I first skied almost 20 years ago so perhaps it's long overdue.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Yes I've had it...and yes I now have lessons at the start of every season
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Lessons, defo 
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| Quote: |
The obvious solution seems to be booking some ski lessons on my next trip to have my skiing assessed. I've not had lessons since I first skied almost 20 years ago so perhaps it's long overdue.
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Yes, that sounds right. Definitely take some lessons - but make sure they are good ones (they're not all).
However, also sounds like you might have had the wrong skis. I was also skiing at that time and I left my new all mountain skis in the cupboard and used the rossignol attraxions I bought off a man in a car park in Bournemouth for £100 five years ago. They were much more suitable for the conditions and I don't care if they get scratched.
Like holidayloverXX I have lessons every year and I'd not have made much progress without them.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| pam w wrote: |
| Quote: |
The obvious solution seems to be booking some ski lessons on my next trip to have my skiing assessed. I've not had lessons since I first skied almost 20 years ago so perhaps it's long overdue.
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Yes, that sounds right. Definitely take some lessons - but make sure they are good ones (they're not all).
However, also sounds like you might have had the wrong skis. I was also skiing at that time and I left my new all mountain skis in the cupboard and used the rossignol attraxions I bought off a man in a car park in Bournemouth for £100 five years ago. They were much more suitable for the conditions and I don't care if they get scratched.
Like holidayloverXX I have lessons every year and I'd not have made much progress without them. |
I think you're right, the skis were definitely a factor for the first five days and weren't too bad once we had the heavy snowfall. I think I'd already lost a degree of confidence by the time the skis started to come into their own. I wish I'd also kept my old Salomons now. Perhaps I was overly optimistic about 'all mountain' bit of the ski description.
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| holidayloverxx wrote: |
| Yes I've had it...and yes I now have lessons at the start of every season |
And did lessons immediately help you understand why you'd hit that wall?
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joemalone, Lessons with video analysis and plenty of good practice to a) get rid of your faults and b) ingrain correct movements. Don't hang about coz it gets harder the longer you leave it.
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| ALQ wrote: |
| joemalone, Lessons with video analysis and plenty of good practice to a) get rid of your faults and b) ingrain correct movements. Don't hang about coz it gets harder the longer you leave it. |
I suspect you're right. My intention was not to hang about, possibly because I was so concerned I wanted to nail the issues early. Plus I really want to understand the problem and won't be waiting until next season, I'll probably book a late season deal with lessons if possible.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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joemalone, Snowdomes are a cheaper way to practice (is there one near you?) before your next hol. I can't recommend them enough for this sort of thing.
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| Quote: |
I'll probably book a late season deal with lessons if possible.
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if you can afford a second trip, go for it - but make sure you book into good lessons, e.g. with one of the BASS schools with small groups.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| joemalone wrote: |
| holidayloverxx wrote: |
| Yes I've had it...and yes I now have lessons at the start of every season |
And did lessons immediately help you understand why you'd hit that wall? |
Yes...I had really been going backwards for a long time and bad habits formed. Its all about analysis, drills and more ski days.i pefer private lessons. Def try and get another trip in of you can
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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joemalone,
not going to go against the collective wisdom, which frankly is a mantra trotted out with monotonous regularity ("lessons, lessons lessons") but ... how was your health and fitness?
A few times I've found myself in a similar situation - not able to control the skis, weight all over the place, edges not doing what they are supposed to, unable to ski as well as I used to / thought I used to, a danger to myself and others: to the extent of, as you say, even dropping out of groups to attend to "paperwork", and spend the day very unhappy with life.
And yes, to all thoses who are about to jump on me, even during lesssons.
In retrospect, it was because I wasn't as fit (or as young) as I had been, and the pre-trip preparation non existent. If you've been skiing at a reasonable level , to maintain that with a break of 35, 50 weeks or whatever, does require some preparation. Not forgetting that as we do mature (...) even our ability to adapt to altitude changes. And, it is a vicious circle - you don't ski well, you get frustrated, you ski even more badly, you (I!) get angry with yourself, sulk, and things go even more badly.
I'd say if you're not well (a cold, hangover, whatever), and/or you haven't been working on your fitness (particularly core) beforehand, then you need to admit it, take a 1/2 day chilling, and get back on the skis the next day in a better frame of mind, and with a body in (slightly) better shape.
(Oh, and if you are the sort of person who likes to deconstruct their technique so can go away and work on individual aspects, and mentally you would feel encouraged by "doing something", then lessons won't do any harm...  )
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| Arctic Roll wrote: |
joemalone,
not going to go against the collective wisdom, which frankly is a mantra trotted out with monotonous regularity ("lessons, lessons lessons") but ... how was your health and fitness?
A few times I've found myself in a similar situation - not able to control the skis, weight all over the place, edges not doing what they are supposed to, unable to ski as well as I used to / thought I used to, a danger to myself and others: to the extent of, as you say, even dropping out of groups to attend to "paperwork", and spend the day very unhappy with life.
And yes, to all thoses who are about to jump on me, even during lesssons.
In retrospect, it was because I wasn't as fit (or as young) as I had been, and the pre-trip preparation non existent. If you've been skiing at a reasonable level , to maintain that with a break of 35, 50 weeks or whatever, does require some preparation. Not forgetting that as we do mature (...) even our ability to adapt to altitude changes. And, it is a vicious circle - you don't ski well, you get frustrated, you ski even more badly, you (I!) get angry with yourself, sulk, and things go even more badly.
I'd say if you're not well (a cold, hangover, whatever), and/or you haven't been working on your fitness (particularly core) beforehand, then you need to admit it, take a 1/2 day chilling, and get back on the skis the next day in a better frame of mind, and with a body in (slightly) better shape.
(Oh, and if you are the sort of person who likes to deconstruct their technique so can go away and work on individual aspects, and mentally you would feel encouraged by "doing something", then lessons won't do any harm... ) |
I think this is an excellent post and again I think it's another factor. I did seem to get my quads burning excessively so troubled to sustain long runs. My health is good but fitness has definitely slipped but then it was no worse than it was last year where I experienced very few problems. Having said that, the conditions were less demanding last year.
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You know it makes sense.
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joemalone,
It could be that the skis are much harder work (stiffer or wider on piste). They could be tiring your legs out and then the technique goes to pot. Have you changed your boots too? Is the ramp angle on the bindings much different - did you feel as though the skis were running away from you?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Was the loss of ability very large? I think you are unlikely to have forgotten how to ski between trips, so I'm guessing that it was a combination of challenging snow conditions, new skis that you weren't dialled in to, skis which maybe weren't particularly good for the snow conditions you were skiing, all leading to a downward spiralling of confidence. When that happens invariably people get tentative, static (often sitting back, hence your burning quads) and their skiing goes to hell in a handcart.
When I've had clients who have had a major loss of confidence which is killing their skiing I will take them to relatively gentle slopes which they are very comfortable on and spend a bit of time just focusing on the core skiing skills such as being well balanced on the skis at the very beginning of the turn, using good movement patterns, working on turn shape, etc. Once the good habits have returned you can then increase the speed and the steepness as they confidence grows and they rediscover their mojo. You can pay an instructor to do that, ask a trusted friend to spend a bit of time with you as you do that, or you can follow that strategy yourself.
Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Wed 8-01-14 10:39; edited 1 time in total
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Poster: A snowHead
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I probably go backwards every year. As a 1 week/year skier, probably took 2-3 days to get back to where I think I was for the first few years. Even now, 1st week of the season, I put skis on and wonder if I can actually still turn them. First run is always a disgrace. Shame my first run of the season the other day wasn't on video.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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andy, +1
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
I put skis on and wonder if I can actually still turn them. First run is always a disgrace
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This is somewhat reassurring.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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And indeed that specific run probably contained a brilliant example of just about every possible kind of incorrect technique: sitting over the tails, rigid, extending off bumps/rollers instead of absorbing...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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For what it's worth, even professional skiers normally have a ropey first run each season.
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| Quote: |
For what it's worth, even professional skiers normally have a ropey first run each season.
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I'm sure it's all relative!
Actually I've found that since we left 2m skinny skis behind, the first run of the year has been much less of an issue. I think it is that the simple "tip the skis onto an edge" motion is much easier to get going than the old "big unweight and pivot" that used to start the season. A couple of times in the last few years, my first turns of te year have been moderately steep off-piste. Not saying it was elegant though!
Back to the OP - I did have one week about 15 years ago when I definitely went backwards and was very unhappy with my skiing - like with you difficult snow coincided with a change of equipment (boots in my case) that boogered with my stance. I'd suggest a couple on one hour private sessions in a fridge before your next trip.
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Is the answer to the title 'Yes, but not on purpose, and I ended up flat on my face"? 
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| Arctic Roll wrote: |
joemalone,
not going to go against the collective wisdom, which frankly is a mantra trotted out with monotonous regularity ("lessons, lessons lessons") but ... how was your health and fitness?
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I
I agree that health & fitness play a part too, if it just a one off then fine, but in my case it was insufficient ski days over the years, stopping lessons too soon and getting into bad habits which got me into a spiral fo lost confidence. I like rob@rar's approach - I had similar from Steve Angus at the start fo this season when I returned from injury.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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joemalone, to add to the other suggestions, it would be worth checking the edges on the new skis, I once hired a set of skis that I simply couldn't ski on, the edges must have been set to something weird, swapping them over to a different set the same day and I could ski again!
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I once went backward on a Raxski - that was enlightening.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| DB wrote: |
| I once went backward on a Raxski - that was enlightening. |
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| joemalone wrote: |
| I think this is an excellent post and again I think it's another factor. I did seem to get my quads burning excessively so troubled to sustain long runs. My health is good but fitness has definitely slipped but then it was no worse than it was last year where I experienced very few problems. Having said that, the conditions were less demanding last year. |
I have been where you are now. It took me two days to fix. First day was in Hemel Snow Centre with Inside Out. The second day was in Hemel Snow Centre with Inside Out. Total cost was about £200 (including entry to snow centre) for two full days of tuition in a small group with the same problem. Even if it doesn't fix the problem (there is no easy magic wand) it will improve your skiing.
After the first day I went on a trip and it was marginally better, left it a few weeks, did another trip and it was back to being useless. Then I did the second day with them, went on a trip and I clicked again. It had taken me about 2 seasons to get my skiing to click when I went back to skiing (the last time it was right was when I was 15, and even then it was mostly fitness, lack of weight and serious fearlessness that made me good) but we've just come back from a trip where it has reclicked again and hopefully will stay that way for the rest of the season.
Getting into the back seat in awful conditions is a natural reaction, and was one of the things that screwed me (a week in completely flat light hammering down with snow basically hit confidence of several people on the same trip) and I had to work to get myself sorted again with a bit of simple work and video analysis. I now have drills which I can use to fix my skiing when I get lazy or fall back into bad habits, which might mean one slow run at the back of the group but nobody minds one or two slow runs in a day.
It won't help if skis and/or boots are not right. One of the other factors I didn't even consider was changing boots impacted my skiing a lot, and without knowing it I was skiing in boots that were pushing me forward a lot more than previous. That resulted in me leaning back against them. Worth making sure you are skiing in the right kit, that your skis and boots are right, as this certainly won't help.
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DB,
Not changed my boots and in fact I'm very happy with them, very snug without being painful but again I had these boots on my old skis last year and had no problems. Ski's are definitely much stiffer (K2 Impacts) but no noticeable difference in the ramp angle. I got rid of my old skis because they chattered terribly at straight line speed and felt unstable, great for carving though. I was skiing ice, slush and mud for the first five days so by the time we had snow I already felt like I'd been knocked out of my usual stance and technique and then experienced a crisis of confidence on which technique to adopt.
Thanks all for your comments, they are very illuminating.
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You know it makes sense.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
Was the loss of ability very large? I think you are unlikely to have forgotten how to ski between trips, so I'm guessing that it was a combination of challenging snow conditions, new skis that you weren't dialled in to, skis which maybe weren't particularly good for the snow conditions you were skiing, all leading to a downward spiralling of confidence. When that happens invariably people get tentative, static (often sitting back, hence your burning quads) and their skiing goes to hell in a handcart.
When I've had clients who have had a major loss of confidence which is killing their skiing I will take them to relatively gentle slopes which they are very comfortable on and spend a bit of time just focusing on the core skiing skills such as being well balanced on the skis at the very beginning of the turn, using good movement patterns, working on turn shape, etc. Once the good habits have returned you can then increase the speed and the steepness as they confidence grows and they rediscover their mojo. You can pay an instructor to do that, ask a trusted friend to spend a bit of time with you as you do that, or you can follow that strategy yourself. |
Hi Rob, yes the loss of ability was very large; I got to the point where I felt like I had very little control over my ski's and trying to carve turns was a nightmare, normally a strong point for me.
I spent the last two days sking relatively gentle slopes in a bid to regain confidence which did happen to some degree but I'm definitely not 'dialled' into my ski's.
Don't think I'd forgotten in between trips, I skied Austria last year after a five year break and had no problems.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| ALQ wrote: |
| joemalone, Snowdomes are a cheaper way to practice (is there one near you?) before your next hol. I can't recommend them enough for this sort of thing. |
I'm an hours drive from the one in Wakefield so might pay them a visit.
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Poster: A snowHead
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joemalone,
kitenski makes a good point about ski tune. Stiffer skis tend to be less forgiving and if the tune was off they could trip you up where your older skis would have let you get away with it.
Whenever I have a bad day, I go back to the learner slopes and get a feel for the edges again - much as rob@rar suggested.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| DB wrote: |
joemalone,
kitenski makes a good point about ski tune. Stiffer skis tend to be less forgiving and if the tune was off they could trip you up where your older skis would have let you get away with it.
Whenever I have a bad day, I go back to the learner slopes and get a feel for the edges again - much as rob@rar suggested. |
The K2 impacts are a rocker ski and what I did feel is that they were less likely to catch a front edge than my old ski's, they were ok for skidded turns and foot steering but I can honestly say that I never felt a carved turn throughout the holiday. You know when you're carving properly because it is effortless and akin to being on rails.
I think edge tuning is relatively low on the list of probable cause and how would I know what angle to tune the edges to anyway? Don't manufacturers closely align edge tuning to the ski's chracteristics?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| DB wrote: |
joemalone,
Whenever I have a bad day, I go back to the learner slopes and get a feel for the edges again |
This, and do the same slope over and over to a) let the terrain/condition changes become less of a front of mind thought and, b) to crank the skis further over each time and get a feel for where your comfortable limit is (or maybe push beyond that).
Lessons too. For 2-3 week a season skiers it is very easy to get out of good habits. I find a good 2 hour one:one lesson often reinforces what I know I should be doing, but sometimes find hard to re-establish. It can be a quick backward feeling if not remedied.
Other than that, I did ski backwards down a blue track in Serre Che a few years ago. Top to bottom. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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joemalone, pop in here and Jon will let you know very quickly if the tune was at fault. Although it sounds like it couldbe relatively low on the list of probable causes it's a simple one to check...and believe me a bad tune can make a pair of skis unskiable!
http://www.jonsskituning.co.uk/
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joemalone, Find a mild easy slope with a flat bit turn your back to gravity Extend your arm out straight like the military do to space parades, stick your thumb up no reach your arm back behind you and follow your thumb with your head, when you have turned enough switch and do it on the other side watch what happens.
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| kitenski wrote: |
joemalone, pop in here and Jon will let you know very quickly if the tune was at fault. Although it sounds like it couldbe relatively low on the list of probable causes it's a simple one to check...and believe me a bad tune can make a pair of skis unskiable!
http://www.jonsskituning.co.uk/ |
I'll pop in, they'll need a wax anyway.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I went to Snozone in Castleford tonight for lesson, never actually got it because my 4 year old son went missing while I was talking to reception and I ended up calling out half of South Yorkshire Police. Thankfully we found him safe and well 15 minutes later but wasn't much in the mood for skiing after that scare. Obviously this wasn't their fault but on a side note Snozone in Castleford is an absolute shambles. Incredibly badly managed and clearly understaffed. I asked how much for a private ski lesson and was told £185 for one hour. The logic being that the instructor normally has a class of 10 so since I had to cover for all 10 places then it was £185. Who gets paid £185 per hour?
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Jeez for that you could drive to Scotland on Friday after work, allow £100 return for petrol. Get a room for Friday night, say £50 for a bit of luxury, leaving £35 for a day ticket. Lessons/hire not included. But it's a real mountain
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FAQ
