 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi all,
Been skiing for 9 years now.
Serious knee injury multiple surgeries all before i took up skiing which results in me being unable to plough to any effect, i can parallel ski fine though...Blacks not a problem... sometimes.
My problem is i struggle to put my weight forward and 99% of the time lean back in my boots, now i guess this is the reason i can not ski in powder at all or even when the snow is good and the pistes have an inch or 2 on top i really struggle to turn.
is there any drills or other movement i can do that will naturally have me forward in my boots?
Thanks in advance
Leigh
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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If you have your own skis you may be able to have the bindings set to help with getting forward. Or perhaps a bootfitter.
If it's physiological problem I think you'd best address that before using drills.
I'm sure the experts will clarify.
Out of interest...9 years skiing is nebulous...How many times/weeks per year ?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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IMHO being forward in your boots is not the solution to your predicament.
Putting pressure on the tongues of your boots will fix your ankle flexed forward and limit your ability to pivot both skis in the direction you want to travel.
Typically the "fix" for this is to get both skis on their edges early and have the uphill ski weighted and leading the turn with the downhill knee tucked in behind the uphill knee.
The Toreador Turn.
You can get away with that on piste, but in powder you'll soon find your skis drifting apart and your balance falling more and more to the tail of the uphill ski.
A fall and/or massive thigh burn is not far behind.
You should be looking to stay as tall and light on both skis, 50/50 balance on both skis, and centred fore/aft and laterally.
Let the flat skis run in the fall line until you have compacted the snow underneath the skis.
Once that has has happened you can progressively put more balance on your downhill ski and pivot both skis across the fall line to complete the turn and control your speed.
The key is to complete the turn enough so that you have more time to let the skis freefall in the fall line without accelerating away from you too quickly.
Hope that makes sense.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Mike Pow,
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The key is to complete the turn enough so that you have more time to let the skis freefall in the fall line without accelerating away from you too quickly.
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I don't quite understand this bit. But then I have problems on transition timing even on piste. It's probably one of the biggest faults in my skiing.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| The Flying Gooseberry wrote: |
Mike Pow,
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The key is to complete the turn enough so that you have more time to let the skis freefall in the fall line without accelerating away from you too quickly.
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I don't quite understand this bit. But then I have problems on transition timing even on piste. It's probably one of the biggest faults in my skiing. |
Once you've passed though the lowest part of the arc of the turn - the belly of the turn - the skis will be travelling back uphill and decelerating.
The key is to continue the arc of the turn to a point where YOU feel comfortable to flatten both skis and allow them to enter the fall line again.
You will accelerate at this point as you're pointing both skis at the steepest part of the hill.
If you haven't gone far enough in the previous arc, you won't have slowed down enough and you will accelerate away quickly. This is terrifying to most pe6ple and the instictive reaction is to shut it down and kill your speed.
In powder that's the cue for falling over.
If you completed the arc enough you will accelerate gradually in the fall line and have more time to tranfer your balance to your new downhill ski and make a pivotted turn.
Hope that clarifies it.
Off to teach. Be back later if more explanation is needed.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Mike Pow, goddit! Thanks!
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Also, maybe try a modern more upright stance freeride boot. The forward lean angle is often a lot less than a lot of the older models.
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No mention of skis width,rocker,ski type,up right ski boots why would that help to ski powder ???.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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meandrew,
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up right ski boots why would that help to ski powder ???.
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Because upright boots help you to stand taller. Standing tall allows you to absorb terrain and manage pressure. Managing pressure is fundamental to skiing powder.
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| No mention of skis width,rocker,ski type |
Sure, they'll help but they're not a technique fix.
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Raceplate, Absolutely agree, I've been skiing off piste with 130 flex Redsters which have a 16 to 18 degree forward lean angle, and they have exposed some major problems with my technique where upon hitting crud I find myself in the backseat. In my touring boots I have the opposite problem where I am constantly seeking more stiffness (ooooo err missus) but the problem actually lies with my poor technique and inability to be able to adapt to changing conditions, whether this be due to the snow or to the equipment.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Im not very good in powder,
so have decided to book some lessons with TDC when I go out to Tignes on the 11th Jan
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Neville, You will not regret it.
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Avalanche Poodle,
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| I've been skiing off piste with 130 flex Redsters which have a 16 to 18 degree forward lean angle |
That is a lot these days. I believe the latest Salomon boots are a 13.5 degree forward lean and my 4 year old ones are 15 degrees. A long time ago I had Technica Xplosion 8s that had adjustable forward lean, I think from 17 to 22 degrees. I mistakenly thought that having them on the maximum lean would help me stay forward; in reality all it did was lower my overall skiing position and kill my thighs!
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You know it makes sense.
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Raceplate, Very true. I experimented and found that a boot with more of the old style forward lean seemed more comfortable to me. I took the shims out of the back and they seem to work with me on 16. I am pretty skinny though and do not put a lot of weight to the rear.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Seriously, I would never in a million years have picked these boots, in fact they seemed to the the opposite to what I was looking for. I had a long discussion with the fitter, he looked at my old boots, asked me what my ambitions were and how I ski, I tried to be honest, and out of the two boots we narrowed it down to these as they just felt right. He did say though to ski them with the softest sole plate as that is what was suitable for my skiing.
"Forward Lean
This is a very important piece of the Atomic Redster Pro 130 story. The Redster Pro 130 has a lot of forward lean, more than the Lange RX & RS, Nordica Patron Pro & Inferno, and basically all of the other boots in its class.
While everybody else seems to be making their boots more upright, Atomic has gone against the grain, or perhaps just decided not to follow the trend on this one.
For the sake of comparison, both the Lange RX 130 and the Redster Pro have 4 degrees of ramp angle. But the Redster has 16-18 degrees of forward lean (depending on whether you have the rear spoiler in or not), while the RX 130 has 12 degrees of forward lean that can be bumped up to 16 degrees by placing the RX’s spoiler on the rear of the cuff.
It ought to come as no surprise, then, that the aggressive geometry of the Redster Pro (combined with that stiff spine and ridiculous lateral stiffness) is biased toward driving your skis, and these boots do that beautifully and powerfully. It’s not subtle. I have enjoyed ripping high-speed laps in these boots as much as any boot I’ve ever skied. (More on this, below.)"
I loved them, but they were harsh off piste as if you sit back they hurt, yet if you drive them they don't half let you turn quickly and will cope with almost every condition. I'm nowhere near being a really good skier but these boots just gelled with me.
Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Sat 4-01-14 18:35; edited 2 times in total
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Poster: A snowHead
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Wow, major boot geekery!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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The Flying Gooseberry, It was all news to me too, I looked into all this stuff after I bought them when I smashed a buckle off my 6 year old Nordicas. I seriously knew nothing, which all goes to show that boot advertising is basically crap. Let a good fitter choose the boot for you. Many WC racers seem to be known for camouflaging their sponsors boots, and racing with the firm that suits their feet. Stickers and spray paint are optional.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Avalanche Poodle,
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Let a good fitter choose the boot for you.
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Indeed, I did. My skiing's still crap though.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Hmmm... you looked pretty damn smooth last time I saw you. Forget too much analysis, just enjoy it and it will come. You are better than you think.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Avalanche Poodle, oh I do enjoy it! 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Yeah, stick to the skiing 
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Avalanche Poodle, 
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| Avalanche Poodle wrote: |
| Hmmm... you looked pretty damn smooth last time I saw you. Forget too much analysis, just enjoy it and it will come. You are better than you think. |
+1
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Avalanche Poodle, so for off piste skiing in steep situations and mixed snow conditions a more up right boot is better if something helps its always good to learn.I will try the two positions on my boots today and see which works best but I have always just used them in maximum forward lean.I have suffered with quad burn quite badly to be honest and if this helps happy days.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Sat 4-01-14 6:40; edited 1 time in total
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| Raceplate wrote: |
meandrew,
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up right ski boots why would that help to ski powder ???.
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Because upright boots help you to stand taller. Standing tall allows you to absorb terrain and manage pressure. Managing pressure is fundamental to skiing powder.
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| No mention of skis width,rocker,ski type |
Sure, they'll help but they're not a technique fix. |
Yeah I understand better now had a quick Google and looked on previous threads thanks as I said I'm going to adjust mine today and see if I can feel the difference which I suspect I will.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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meandrew, It's all down to what suits the individual  Some people prefer a softer boot for off piste, same with lean angles. I also use quite a soft touring boot and that takes some getting used to as I can't just power through difficult conditions, guess I'll need to keep more balanced and learn some decent technique.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Avalanche Poodle, yesterday was the first ski of the year and boy did my thighs know it haha but I must admit I have never really got on with my scarpas I'm going to try my tecnicas and if it changes my pains/burn then new boots it is.
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If you're worried about forward lean, don't forget about the ramp angles on your bindings. 
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You know it makes sense.
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Standing tall allows you to absorb terrain and manage pressure
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I well remember a ski lesson in quite deep (for me) snow on an unpisted black run. I got lower and lower, each turn. He was shouting at me to stand up. Eventually he begged me. He said "please, please, stand up". I did manage it for a bit, did three or four quite nice turns, and he was very pleased! I can't get it consistently, though. I recognise what Mike Pow described, in my attempts. I don't fall that often, but I end up picking up a bit too much speed and turning across/up the hill to kill it, but missing the timing of the next turn and just coming to a halt. I really need a lot more instruction and hopefully will get it on easiski's "On2Off" week later this month.
Also, don't forget, not all newly fallen snow is "powder". Some of it is plain clag.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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The boots choose the wizard not the other way round
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Poster: A snowHead
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pam w,
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I end up picking up a bit too much speed and turning across/up the hill to kill it, but missing the timing of the next turn and just coming to a halt
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Also my problem.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| The Flying Gooseberry wrote: |
pam w,
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I end up picking up a bit too much speed and turning across/up the hill to kill it, but missing the timing of the next turn and just coming to a halt
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Also my problem. |
Me too. I suspect some of it is plain old discomfort with the speed I pick up (and maybe a lack of reaction speed in terms of maintaining balance). Another consequence of that is trying to rush my turns to scrub speed, rather than letting the ski use its radius - which tends to have inevitable consequences 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Avalanche Poodle, Raceplate, thank you for your advice totally different day and pain free,I'm going to take a trip to a good boot fitter very soon as there is probably more that can be done for me.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| The Flying Gooseberry wrote: |
| Mike Pow, goddit! Thanks! |
Great. My pleasure.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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So ten days in and my legs are just beginning to work. Spent all day skiing powder today (3 previous powder days in the bag this season), towards the end of the day I was starting to get it in my head how the snow would move and what speed I needed to/could go. I don't think it's about hints and tips, I need mileage, both in my legs and in my head. If you're fighting your kit it's a non starter.
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| eng_ch wrote: |
| The Flying Gooseberry wrote: |
pam w,
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I end up picking up a bit too much speed and turning across/up the hill to kill it, but missing the timing of the next turn and just coming to a halt
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Also my problem. |
Me too. I suspect some of it is plain old discomfort with the speed I pick up (and maybe a lack of reaction speed in terms of maintaining balance). Another consequence of that is trying to rush my turns to scrub speed, rather than letting the ski use its radius - which tends to have inevitable consequences |
Funnily enough after contributing to this thread yesterday morning (my time) this problem presented itself in my lesson.
One of my students just lost the confidence to balance with the turn and was backseating and trying to turn too quickly in the powder.
For her it was a psychological issue not a skills issue. And I suspect it's the same for most people.
The mind plays tricks when you put both skis directly in the fall line.
You're looking down at the steepest part of the slope and accelerating away quickly.
However, and it's a big however, the acceleration you experience at the initiation of the turn is never as fast as the speeds generated when skiing around the hill.
It just feels faster because it's so sudden.
What most people fail to manage is that the first half of every turn is an acceleration phase.
You can either try to get the skis across the fall line as quickly as possible and try to kill all the momentum generated by the mountain or
you can choose to use that acceleration in combination with pivotting and edging your skis to accelerate through the turn and then back uphill where you will decelerate.
You can choose to manage momentum by purely physical means or choose to let the arc of the turn speed you up and slow you down.
Think of how a yo yo goes down, 'hits bottom' and then springs back up.
In powder, where the platform under your feet is constantly forming the latter is the more successful of the two options.
Hope that helps.
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leeboy, a drill to help with fore / aft balance problem you describe is to try skiing with your boots undone so that you get no support leaning back or forward. Should help you get centred. Pick a very easy slope to try this. On the issue of why you can't ski powder, need pile more info on your technique, a short video clip of you attempting some powder would be needed.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Mike Pow,
Not sure.  I think what you're saying is that, once you've initiated your turn (by standing tall and flattening the skis?) you let the skis do the rest (without any pressure or edging or pivoting? Really??) and, when they've taken you sufficiently uphill to feel comfortable, you do the same again.
I think I might be missing something...
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I concur with Mike that the OP's problem is unlikely to be associated with balance and more likely to do with direction of travel. Our first forays away from the carefully ironed piste often highlights, despite what we might think, that we spend much time skidding sideways. Try to do this in powder and we struggle or just fall over.
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