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helmet and goggles for a blue run?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Hi, I've read the newbie clothing guide which was really useful but I'm still a bit confused about a couple of things.

I'm going on my first ever ski trip (5 days) to Switzerland in a couple of weeks. So far I've only had a few hours lessons on an indoor slope and I'm just about linking parallel turns (slowly) so I'll be having some lessons to start me off when I get there. My friends (all established skiers) have been giving me mixed advice: I've been told I won't need a helmet or goggles because I wont be going very fast and that hat and glasses is all I need. But then others have told me the opposite that helmet and goggles are essential. I was also advised to take a rucksack to carry spare layers and water but reading another thread on here someone mentioned that a beginner wouldn't really need a rucksack.

I understand that you can't be too light for safety sake but am I going to look silly with helmet and goggles at the standard I am at?

Also, assuming I progress at an 'average' rate how likely is it I would get off the blue runs within 5 days?
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
If it's really cold or snowing goggles are a very good idea. And many (if not most) beginners wear helmets simply because they tend to fall over so much Toofy Grin
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
PJM - I'm not opening the helmet debate as it will never end - but may be worth checking your insurance as this may provide some advise
I'd go for sunnies rather than goggles - I prefer them and I think it gives better all round vision
Rucksack and spare layers - No need for your first few weeks

Finally the more exciting bit - yes I would imagine you will get off blue runs and depending on the resort you may get to ski from top to bottom - but you are allowed to stop for a a rest snowHead
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PJMaybe wrote:
am I going to look silly with helmet and goggles at the standard I am at?


Looking silly in helmet and goggles is skill-independent. Make sure you try on your helmet in a shop, (so you know it fits well), and make sure you get some goggles that work well with the helmet (and look up the meaning of the word 'gaper' in a ski context!) and you'll be just fine.

Remember that goggles offer you some protection in the event of face-plants. They're useful even in nicer weather.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
PJMaybe, helmet yes, speed is irrelevant, as Avalanche Poodle, says beginners tend to fall a bit more, googles are handy I fully switched to them a few years back, so much easier, I would skip the rucksack to start, layer up and if you get too warm take one off and tie it round your waist or stick it in a pocket.

In Switzerland the ones that look silly are the ones without a helmet everyone pretty much wears one.

Don't be obsessed with the colour of the run. Some blues are harder than the reds and some reds are easier than the blues.
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Johnor wrote:
I'm not opening the helmet debate as it will never end


I'm pretty sure Michael Schumacher's neurosurgeon has just ended this debate once and for all.

Always wear a helmet, get used to it. One day it might save your life.

PJMaybe, worry about being safe and having fun. Looking cool may never come but as long as you've got those two sorted you'll be hooked for life.
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Thanks everyone for the advice. That's given me the push I needed to make a decision. Helmet and goggles it is!

Never heard of gaper before so thanks for the warning wink
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
PJMaybe, whether or not goggles are essential is a function of the weather, rather than the difficulty of the run.
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PJMaybe wrote:
Thanks everyone for the advice. That's given me the push I needed to make a decision. Helmet and goggles it is!

Never heard of gaper before so thanks for the warning wink


Bring sunglasses as well and you can try goggles or glasses and then decide what works best for you.

p.s. I have never carried a rucksack in many, many years of skiing. Just pop into a mountain retreat if thirsty.
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Helmet, yes.
Goggles, yes probably. A lot of people will tell you a helmet and goggles are a fashion faux pas, but if it's hot sunny weather I do not want to be in goggles. Seems daft to me.

Rucksack. Definitely not. If you ever need one it won't be for years. My amateur research suggests that only about 10% of people carry them and most of them don't really need them. When learning the last thing you want is to raise your centre of gravity with something designed to snag on lifts Very Happy
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If your rucksack hasn't got a shovel and a probe in it then it ain't needed!
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
flangesax wrote:
If your rucksack hasn't got a shovel and a probe in it then it ain't needed!


well, I don't necessarily agree with that - I have the alternative goggle lens, water bladder, car keys, glove liners, fleece neck warmer, sunnies, and it leaves plenty of space if I need to take a layer off.

But yes, for a beginner I wouldn't bother. And I agree that a beginner needs a helmet more than anyone as they're more likely to fall or lose control.
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Great advice, thanks everyone. So I'll ditch the rucksack, I've got a helmet which I think is a good one and I'll get some goggles that go with it - and I might just take some glasses too so I can at least have an option or take them both.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Yep, helmet for sure, you only have one brain and it needs to last a lifetime, no matter how much a beginner or expert you are you can catch an edge and smack your head big time! My daughter is a very good snowboarder but took a heavy fall catching an edge on ice last year, says she saw stars and was a while getting back to her feet not just at instructors insistence while he got her checked out! Looking at the back of her helmet (now scrapped!) it looks like someone put a nail against it and whacked it with a hammer where we guess she bounced off a rock or lump of ice. Without the helmet there would have been lots of blood and stitches at very least and I think possibly a fractured scull judging by the size of the puncture. Any doubts (and for your doubting mates) just go and watch the movie The Crash Reel when it appears at a local cinema! Goggles, get some yellow ones for low light, makes life much easier when you can see what is going on and yellow lenses enhance contrast in flat low light, and some with an all round lens for the bluebird days you'll get if you are lucky!
Rucksack, well how many pockets has your jacket got, on a nice day with settled weather I wont bother unless some hard skiing is on the cards then I'll take a hydration pack, and even beginner lessons can be hard skiing on a warm day! Changeable days, particularly out with kids I'll take the pack with spare buffs, different goggles and the likes.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
The helmet isn't just for how fast YOU are skiing, it is just as much about how fast others are skiing. Without wishing to scare you, I'm just being realistic here, I have seen some of the worst crashes on blue slopes where novices have been skiing way out of control and crashing into people.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Take a rucksack.

Learning to ski is sweaty, tiring work and you will probably be dehydrated after the previous night's apres and making the most of the "free" wine with dinner (and then the Jaegaerbombs in the pub later!). Having some water with you will allow you to stay hydrated during your lesson without delaying people and this will stop you getting fatigued enabling you to make the most of the day.

I prefer a camelbak as it means I can sip on the water as I want to without delaying others while I faff taking a bag off (people who take their bag off for every lift and faff at the top of the lift are evil!). I also hate having loads of crap in my pockets, far easier with a very slim rucksack (get one with compression straps) than a bulging jacket.

Just don't fill it full of unnecessary crap as unless you are skiing with kids all you need is some water, a hat and sunnies for your lunch stop (if you are wearing a helment/googles), and a hip flask (essential for long gondola rides!)
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Flet©h, how do you stop the tube freezing on your camelbak?? I used one once..... Never again!
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
ethylene glycol ? Toofy Grin

In all seriousness, some orange juice helps when it is really cold.
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swishtony, blow it back, and use an insulated pipe.

Flet©h, +1, dehydration is awful. Been there loads in the past, it really brings on fatigue and affects performance.

PJMaybe, I'd definitely suggest helmet and goggles (don't forget you'll need a yellow fog lens as a spare), plus take sunnies for those terrace lunch stops we all enjoy! Have fun, that's what it's all about....... Very Happy
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
if you ski in falling snow the goggles are vital. They aid vision in flat light and keep snow out of your eyes. Sunnies also mist up when it's snowing.
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swishtony, my camelbak has an insulated tube which is also inside one of the shoulder straps. It never freezes.
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PJMaybe, regarding the goggles - firstly - essential. Secondly, make sure you take your helmet with you when you are buying the goggles as they are not necessarily mutually compatible. Thirdly, don't be too much of a cheapskate. Cheap goggles tend to mist up, especially if you are sweating (which you may well be - new skiers tend to have to use more energy).
Have a great time Very Happy
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Agree with what's posted. Helmet and goggles yes. Definitely now for the backpack. Concentrate on learning to ski and worry about a backpack later. Lifts are hard enough I get on and stay on when your new to it wihouth also having to worry about a backpack.
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PJMaybe wrote:
I understand that you can't be too light for safety sake but am I going to look silly with helmet and goggles at the standard I am at?
?


If you are worried about looking silly you are on a loser straight away. Most folks are too busy with their own skiing to care less what someone else looks like. Put your vanity to one side and do what is best for you. If you have a helmet it is somewhere to sit your goggles if you are not wearing them and want to pop sunnies on instead. Colour and type of lense is reasonably important to get best vision from the various light conditions you will encounter. If you do get googles don't spend a fortune as you are likely to scratch them whilst fannying around as all beginners inevitably do at some point.

Regards extra layers....you will figure out the weather day by day and dress accordingly. I think as a complete beginner if you are falling over a bit the getting up is or can be hard work until you figure it all out. This will make you very hot and bothered. Just accept you will get hot and sweaty which is better than being cold for sure. All that said if you are having lessons with a decent instructor you shouldn't actually be falling over too much anyway as they will teach you to progress steadily and correctly for your ability.
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
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Ski in goggles, cool shades mandatory for sun terrace eating and drinking on the slopes wink
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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PJMaybe,
possibly unlike others the thread (snowheads not in total accord shocker) I prefer sunnies to goggles. I always have the googles with me (pocket, not rucksack - unless skiing with Mrs Roll in which case the amount of gear to carry makes it essential... wink ) for flat light, snowfall etc., but first choice, it's sunnies every time for me.
And frankly couldn't give a monkeys about fashion gurus telling me I look a berk in helmet and glasses. Their problem, not mine.


Take both, make your own mind up. And yes, you will need sunnies for lunchtimes.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Quote:

Lifts are hard enough I get on and stay on when your new to it wihouth also having to worry about a backpack.



Just get a slim backpack and then you don't need to take it off. I have never taken mine off to get on a lift. As with everything its all just personal preference, I hate bulky pockets and find a good slim backpack no issue. Some people hate carrying a bag and prefer millions of pockets full of everything they could ever need. But this doesn't automatically mean a backpack is a bad idea.

(One you have to take off for the lifts is though!)

Quote:

Just accept you will get hot and sweaty which is better than being cold for sure.


Getting sweaty will quickly lead to you getting cold once you stop or get on a lift. I like to err on the side of being a bit cold rather than a bit hot so as not to sweat too much, I can always zip up to get on a lift but its quite hard to dry out once you are hot and sweaty. It's all personal preference though, if you are naturally hot and sweaty then you want to stay cool, if you don't sweat much and get cold easily then you may want to wrap up warm all the time.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
PJMaybe,
http://eu.dakine.com/p/womens/backpacks/fall-13-winter-14/cosmo-65l?clr=CPI
I don't know if you're a bloke, in which case this may not be suitable, but I have a tiny little backpack like this, which doesn't snag on lifts. In it I keep my goggles (yes, I too ski in sunnies when the weather permits) a water bottle, spare gloves, spare mid layer, woolly hat (I ski in a helmet, but like to have my hat available for outdoors lunch or après) buff, a hip flask and a little make-up bag with various bits in it ranging from chewing gum to lippie, sun cream, Ibuprofen etc. Yes, I could probably cram all these things into my pockets, but it wouldn't be a great look.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
I pretty much always carry a (small/slim) rucksack

I don't notice it is there, there is usually at least 1 extra layer in there, sometimes 2 (I'm either with mrs sev112, lilmisssev112) water, few small mars bars etc., and a book. In earlier years I had knee trouble, and would occasionally have to stop for an hour or so before carrying on. On a week's trip, it was wonderful to be high up a mountain terrace, drink and cake on the table, and reading in wonderful surroundings.

Also, I tend to lose a lot less stuff when I have a rucksack compared to when I put bits and bobs, sunglasses, wallets etc into jacket pockets
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
sev112, ooh, yes, I had my Kindle in my pack one day last week. Exactly this:
Quote:

it was wonderful to be high up a mountain terrace, drink and cake on the table, and reading in wonderful surroundings.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Arctic Roll,
Quote:

but first choice, it's sunnies every time for me.
+1

Sunnies - essential for the terrace. You'll look a complete plonker drinking a beer and eating lunch on the terrace while wearing goggles or permanently squinting against the light

Goggles - Yes take them, they can be very useful in falling snow/cold weather etc. but the current fashion for wearing goggles regardless is pretty new. I'm not saying they aren't a great thing to have, but don't fall into the trap of thinking you can't ski without them. Do a quick Google image search of people skiing in the 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's, 00's etc. and you won't find that many wearing goggles for normal conditions.

Backpacks - I always get the impression that backpacks are a bit of Snowhead obsession. Some people need them for all the off-piste clobber, extra nappies for their children etc. but I never understand why most people have them. On of the most frequent answers seems to be for re-hydration. You're not running a marathon here. Unless you are ski touring or working incredibly hard surely you can manage quite happily without water for a couple of hours? Anyway, personal prejudice against backpacks apart have a look at some of the resort webcam images and you'll see that only around 10% of people seem to wear backpacks.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Quote:

surely you can manage quite happily without water for a couple of hours?

Depends on how big the hangover is wink

I took a backpack once with water, snacks, spare gloves and a buff etc... Never again; I didn't really need the contents and my mates kept asking me to carry their stuff in it Evil or Very Mad Everything I need to carry fits in jacket or trouser pockets.

BTW, call me an old cynic but is PJMaybe, real? Seems an awfully close user name to a certain other snowHead wink . Please don't take offence if I'm way off piste with this one Toofy Grin
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Quote:

I took a backpack once with water, snacks, spare gloves and a buff etc... Never again; I didn't really need the contents and my mates kept asking me to carry their stuff in it Everything I need to carry fits in jacket or trouser pockets.

Likewise. Carried it for one single day and found it a complete PITA.
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I'm reverting to the good old bumbag...I fell last week and bruised a rib as I was carrying my (mahoosive) phone in my jacket pocket
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
That's why I don't use one any more, everybody expects you to carry their stuff so it's pockets all the way now!
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Quote:

That's why I don't use one any more, everybody expects you to carry their stuff so it's pockets all the way now!


Just tell them to Be Nice please! off?
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Quote:

I fell last week and bruised a rib as I was carrying my (mahoosive) phone in my jacket pocket


I deliberately left my phone behind this morning as I was XC skiing and much more likely to fall than doing (cruisy) downhill. In the event I didn't fall - thanks to perfect snow conditions I was able to slow myself down without flinging myself on the deck. rolling eyes I think I'm beginning to get the hang of it.

My worst backpack injury was from a thermos flask, which was broken in a crash caused by an idiot taking me out from behind. The rib in my back was sore for weeks. It's hard to carry the stuff for a spring picnic in the mountains in pockets.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Quote:

It's hard to carry the stuff for a spring picnic in the mountains in pockets.


Spring picnics are worthy exceptions to the no backpack rule. It's tricky to get a full bottle of wine in a pocket and the baguette can earn you some strange and admiring glances.
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In this case I think a backpack is also more convenient than just using a large pocket:

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Can of Red Bull in backpack last season......leant back on the chairlift......ffffffsssss, nice sticky mess and acrid smell all day, hate the stuff only carrying it for a pal! rolling eyes
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