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Michael Schumacher "Gravely injured" in Meribel

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Quote:

He also participates in a sport we all love & for that we should just offer our prayers, thoughts & best wishes for a speedy recovery.

Well personally I dislike F1 intensely but don't see that as a reason to refrain from offering thoughts and best wishes.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Lets hope be able to ski free is not going to affected by this.


REMEMBER

Helmets = Horse Blinkers

Do not believe for one minute that a Helmet will make you save.

A Helmet effects your Peripheral vision  & sense if awaerness.

(Driving a Car more important than controlling it)

Ask any non wearing and the answer wil be.

They are the most dangerous folk on the slopes nowadays!

I would even argue that more ccidents have occured on piste due to the wesring of Helmets.

Off course those stats will be available in 20 yrs time


Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Mon 30-12-13 21:03; edited 2 times in total
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
stanton wrote:
Lets hope be able to ski free is not going to affected by this.


REMEMBER

Helmets = Horse Blinkers


Not anything like as much as goggles do but I don't see you posting warning about them.
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stanton,

I disagree, your statements are to general and do not apply to every person or situation.
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stanton,Absolutely disagree.
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stanton, But the doctors have already said he would not have got this far if he was not wearing a helmet. So why make this tragic accident into another helmet debate, you either do or you don't and I am sure schumi was more capable than most to carry out his own risk assessment.
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PJSki,


Absolutey not the same...

Please do a reality check.

Folk have been wearing goggles for decades.

Helmets provide & give a different level of comfort.

Ski behind a huge % of helmet wearers & they are clueless to the
Wearabouts of other folks.

When these dangerous objects first emegerd on the ski markets
Back in the early 90s i tried one then again in 2000.

False sense of security.


A bit like the self denial drunk drivers & stinkin Cancerous smokers in bars who do not give a s h i t about others.
I.e I am ok i will get (ski)home F e c k u !
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stanton

Quote:
Do not believe for one minute that a Helmet will make you save.


Despite highly experienced surgeons stating he would be dead with out a helmet! Shocked


Last edited by After all it is free Go on u know u want to! on Mon 30-12-13 21:05; edited 1 time in total
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Can we please reserve the silly ongoing battle about helmets to another thread and focus on the topic thread please?
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Timmaah,

Ok.

What Sks & Boots was Schumi using?
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Kel wrote:
stanton, But the doctors have already said he would not have got this far if he was not wearing a helmet. So why make this tragic accident into another helmet debate, you either do or you don't and I am sure schumi was more capable than most to carry out his own risk assessment.


Yes, but only time will tell, and I hate to raise the point but I will. Whether his quality of life will be good. There is, it seems no doubt that the helmet saved his life but has it saved his future quality of life?

In terms of did he carry out a risk assessment, again there will be loads of comments, statements, judgements and opinions but as most of the folks here have already pointed out there were lots of rocks either on, or just under the snow and the conditions are not great anywhere so (and without any specific and detailed information in respect of the reason for the fall) the decision to ski the particular area seems a little flawed based on the anecdotal information available.

I do sincerely hope he recovers.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Micheal was very unlucky I'd say, very unlucky indeed. If he was sking where they say, it really isn't an extreme off piste, you could wander off by mistake with the 3V's sparse piste marker system. My daugter was only a few KM's away every time she got off the Dent Du Burgin chairlift...

Last week due to high winds on Thursday most of the high lifts were shut in Meribel, come Friday the Saulire 2 still wasn't running (only Saulire 1) though I have no idea if the Pas Du Lac was in operation. So everything appeared to be white, if only on the surface.
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Markymark29 wrote:
In a world where the word "legend" is banded about liberally MS really is a legend. I didn't always agree with his F1 tactics (parking at Monaco, swerving to avoid being passed etc) but he's a tough guy and he's a winner. I hope he comes through this and makes a full recovery.



Get Real

The only person who drives a car or truck who could be considered legend is someone who drives through warzones to get aid & supply's to refugees & injured.

Driving round a track is not difficult & certainly not not worthy if legend status.

Get Real!!
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
It's perfectly relevant to question whether Michael Schumacher's skiing - and therefore his accident - was influenced by wearing a helmet.

'Risk compensation theory' is the relevant discussion ... e.g. ...

The risk compensation theory and bicycle helmets [Injury Prevention/British Medical Journal]
http://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/7/2/89.full

I'll express an interest: I don't wear a ski helmet, and suspect that many skiers are skiing more dangerously because they pyschologically insulate themselves from danger by shutting their skulls and brains inside a bucket.

Schumacher's doctors said today that he would not have survived without a helmet. The bigger question is whether the helmet was a contributory cause of the accident.

Do we have up-to-date data on the frequency of serious/fatal head injuries in skiing ... to collate with the helmet sales boom of the past 10+ years?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Comedy Goldsmith, I know people will jump up and down - but I also think that a helmet makes a head significantly bigger and significantly harder to move. I'm a part time helmet wearer, and seem to bash my head a lot more with it on (in innocuous situations, e.g bringing down a chairlift bar). I've no idea if this is statistically significant for serious incidents, and of course cannot say anything about Schumacher's accident.
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 Poster: A snowHead
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Comedy Goldsmith, the head trauma specialist treating Schumacher advises skiers to wear a helmet, so clearly he doesn't subscribe to the risk compensation theory. Only really stupid people think a helmet makes them indestructible and I doubt they are that great in number as to make any significant statistical difference.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
stanton, I think you may be confusing the words 'legend' and 'hero' . . .

PS lost my bet with my son as I thought would have descended into a 'helmet or not helmet' debate by 9am this morning not this late in the day. . . . I'm disappointed in you all.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
stanton wrote:
Markymark29 wrote:
In a world where the word "legend" is banded about liberally MS really is a legend. I didn't always agree with his F1 tactics (parking at Monaco, swerving to avoid being passed etc) but he's a tough guy and he's a winner. I hope he comes through this and makes a full recovery.



Get Real

The only person who drives a car or truck who could be considered legend is someone who drives through warzones to get aid & supply's to refugees & injured.

Driving round a track is not difficult & certainly not not worthy if legend status.

Get Real!!


Get real Yourself. In his particular field he is a legend, like him or not. In the same way that in Your Particular field Stanton you are also a legend.
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One things for sure, helmet sales are going to go through the roof because of this. I don't currently wear one, and my other half who does has already started giving me grief about buying one in St Anton when we get there next week.
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xscreamer, ain't that the truth.
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stanton wrote:
Ski behind a huge % of helmet wearers & they are clueless to the
Wearabouts of other folks.


Generally, I agree with that (apart from the spelling and grammar of course).
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Just as an aside, doctors who state with certainty what would have happened had he not been wearing a helmet are talking outside their level of competence.

As doctors, we do not have the technology to predict what would happen in individual cases.

It is likely that they are making much statements due to partisan motivations, all be it well-intentioned ones.
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Skiers who aren't great wear helmets. Skiers who aren't great also don't wear helmets. We don't know the specifics about his accident so debating what decisions he took in some hypothetical scenario we and the Daily Mail/Bild contingent have dreamt up doesn't benefit the discussion of how Michael is doing medically.
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Kramer wrote:
Just as an aside, doctors who state with certainty what would have happened had he not been wearing a helmet are talking outside their level of competence.
.


Perhaps.

The doctor said that "in view of the violence of the impact, someone who had such a shock without a helmet would not have made it as far as hospital". That doesn't seem like a totally unreasonable statement.

Local information is Schumi is touch and go to survive.
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The BBC news this evening drew comparisons with the fate that befell Natasha Richardson a few years ago. Seems she had a fall, banged here head and was ok immediately afterwards. Then fell ill a few hours later and died after 3 days in a coma. Here's hoping that fate does not await him Sad
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davidof wrote:
Kramer wrote:
Just as an aside, doctors who state with certainty what would have happened had he not been wearing a helmet are talking outside their level of competence.
.


Perhaps.

The doctor said that "in view of the violence of the impact, someone who had such a shock without a helmet would not have made it as far as hospital". That doesn't seem like a totally unreasonable statement.



Indeed and these doctors are very, very experienced in this field.
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Most if not all people not wearing helmets have been skiing or snowboarding for many years and are/should be pretty good at it by now.

Most if not all people still learning wear helmets.

That's why those with less control and/or awareness are often also wearing helmets.

My goggles restrict my peripheral vision, my helmet does not.

Argue your way out of that.

I'm tired of the helmet debate, if you don't want to wear one then that's fine but don't try to justify that decision with nonsensical peripheral vision/false sense of security arguments.

The man is very ill, that's what's important here.
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I'm guessing people don't wear seatbelts either as it will stop them being thrown clear of car in event of an accident Puzzled
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Kramer - maybe not the technology but definitely the expertise to make an educated guess - and most likely the experience to make that 'guess' pretty accurate. I think its safe to assume that if the medic who has seen the damage to both helmet and head concludes that without the helmet the force of impact would have resulted in a fatal injury he's most likely correct.

My brother was urgently hospitalised following a head injury after coming off his snowboard - the surgeon told him that without the helmet he'd have been lucky to get away with it and almost certainly brain surgery would have been required.



A sad accident, lets hope it results in greater awareness of the dangers of skiing. Equally sadly, we would never have heard of it had it not been for the prior achievements of the victim.


My sister gave me her old helmet a few days ago as she has a new one. I had hardly given the idea of wearing it a second thought until now. The only occasions on which I have worn one have been in Xscape, but that's because they throw you out if you get adventurous and dont. I know, as I have been Blush They do NOT reduce my peripheral vision and do NOT make it harder for me to move my head.



Stanton - your comments are good argument for a 'filter' button and do not do your intellect justice.


Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Mon 30-12-13 22:57; edited 2 times in total
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Snow Hound wrote:
Most if not all people not wearing helmets have been skiing or snowboarding for many years and are/should be pretty good at it by now.

Most if not all people still learning wear helmets.

That's why those with less control and/or awareness are often also wearing helmets.

My goggles restrict my peripheral vision, my helmet does not.

Argue your way out of that.

I'm tired of the helmet debate, if you don't want to wear one then that's fine but don't try to justify that decision with nonsensical peripheral vision/false sense of security arguments.

The man is very ill, that's what's important here.


Well said.
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Remember Richard Hammond and his injury - hopefully Schumi will pull through. Kevin Pearce - he also is pretty much recovered now, albeit not the snowboarder he was.

Comedy Goldsmith - just go away and disappear - disgusted that you taint this thread with your drivel. And yes, I've ready just a little too much of it on so many threads. Bad taste and ignorance.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Comedy Goldsmith wrote:
The bigger question is whether the helmet was a contributory cause of the accident.


I doubt very much, given his years of racing, that a Ski helmet gave him the urge to take risks.
Or perhaps you meant that his helmet prevented him hearing the rock sneaking up on him from behind?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I have read some other news reports. It seems Michael was "only" 20 metres off piste near a blue/red run junction. With regard to the head injury, it's stated he had internal bleeding in the brain. Whilst a person can seem perfectly OK immediately after a bang on the head, their condition can deteriorate later. The speed of that depends on the severity if the impact and speed of bleeding, which raises pressure inside the skull. That then causes further confusion, agitation and eventually coma and, if not treated, death. Michael was fortunate on several counts, the first being the location, the pisteurs were there very quickly and then that they knew what they were dealing with and called in the chopper. He was becoming increasingly agitated as time went on which is a sign of serious brain injury, but I gather was still concious to some extent when he reached Grenoble. The coma will be medically induced, firstly for the operation and now for at least a few days whilst the brain swelling goes down. Only when he is woken up will it be possible to say how he is.
He has had excellent treatment as quickly as it was possible. We just have to hope and pray for a good recovery while we wait for the next news.
He does, by the way, own a property in Meribel and is a very good skier.
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And presumably Stanton and Comedy Goldsmith never wear a seatbelt because that would make them drive more recklessly.
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Who are " H&S" ?? If Anyone has an interest it is the insurers and lawyers. I can't think of any "H&S" legislation or duty holders who have any interest whatsoever in whether individuals do or don't wear helmets doing personal sporting activities,

So what are you advocating ? You say you wear them but it is not what you advocate ? I'm confused
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Just few points:

- track diving is difficult to do well. He absolutely is a 'legend' unlike, I would wager, Stanton

- I would take the opinion of the Brain injury specialist treating him over anyone else here with regard to the effectiveness, or otherwise, of the helmet in this particular situation

- I don't think there is any evidence for the skiing capabilities of those who wear helmets as opposed to those who don't

- my own experience of recently starting to wear a helmet is that they don't interfere with the experience and they keep ears warm. I see no reason not to wear one.
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Tomorrow's Mirror has a full front page photo of the accident scene (it's a much clearer version of the picture in The Mail article linked on page before). It's a pretty rocky space between two cut up pistes. The tracks suggest the skiers thought they had found a smooth patch of fresh snow to thread through the rocks.


Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Mon 30-12-13 23:01; edited 1 time in total
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Alex A wrote:


Comedy Goldsmith - just go away and disappear - disgusted that you taint this thread with your drivel


I hit the ignore button for this prat long ago
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Being an area between the pistes the rocks have presumably been left in situ perhaps with others moved there from the piste either side ?
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stanton, have you ever driven an F1 car, I'll think you'll find it a bit difficult...

And track driving is not easy, far from it.
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