 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi,
I have some old salamon x-wave 10 boots (the smoky see through ones). Lothed to change them as finally got them fitting well / tight but without discomfort.
anyhow, dug them out and put them on in the house and was remined by how little I can flex them. I remember being shocked last year when I compared flex with those of some friends in their boots - I though their boots were far too flexy.
SO, there seems to be some theory that softer boots might be better with modern skis, especially if you're not racing.
But, if you can't pressue the front of the boot, you can't pressure the front of the ski !
Last year in variable snow and light levels I felt that I struggled for balance sometimes, not sure if this is flex related.
impossible question :
Anyhow, how much should I be able to flex my boots* ?
related question :
should I try to make my boots less flexy ? (there are some 'dotted' lines on the back of the lower boot/clog these seem to be for cutting to increas the flex - BUT I seem to remember posts on this forum yeares ago saying this was very bad idea, not sure why , it may hav been partly because it made you boots flex inthe wrong place ?
Gareth.
* standing in just the boots on a flat floor (not in skis) it looks like I can maybe get the boot to flex ~15/20 degrees. My leg actually can move more, but that's movement against/within the liner, not the other boot moving.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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seems like a terrible idea to me. unless you're an engineer and can work out these things pretty well (probably needing computer models etc) you really have no idea what forces (well, the extent and exact direction of them, anyway) are going through which part of your boot during different parts of a relatively high-speed turn, for example. I would not want one of my boots to break just as I'm speeding up in a carve...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Some boots have adjustable flex and you can make them softer by removing bolts at the back. If you can't do this you'll be better off taking them to a bootfitter, it might be possible to soften boots by cutting out the wedge from inside the shell, but you want a specialist to do it and also to determine the issue. Not sure if too stiff boots affect the balance though and it's kind of strange that your leg moves within the liner.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Sounds like a bad idea to me. I doubt you will do yourself any serious harm, but I fear you are likely to knacker a pair of much loved and well-fitting boots.
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in variable snow and light levels I felt that I struggled for balance sometimes, not sure if this is flex related.
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My guess is that this was more snow and light related, but others with more experience may have a view.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I once couldn't properly flex a pair of beginner boots (flex rating 80-85) as they were too high a foot volume and when buckled up very tightly they were locking the cuff and blocking any attempt to flex them. I ended up drilling a series of holes in the tongues and grinding down the cuff base but this only gave me a little more freedom. I went to a very high quality boot fitter and he ended up putting me in a pair of 130 flex boots, which I was suddenly able to flex. The figures vary so much between manufacturers anyhow. It's often the fit of the boot which allows you to flex them rather than just going by the rating.
I had also improved my technique. Often on variable snow I had found that my technique was going out the window and I was getting in the back seat, varying balance and not properly engaging the skis. Often on variable snow it seems to work better if you keep a nice neutral centre balance and not try to drive the skis too hard.
A proper ski instructor may be able to give you some advice though, it may be worth getting a specific lesson just to address the issue.
If you can stand and flex the cuff that amount you should be fine. But as said, your leg shouldn't move inside the boot. They may be comfy but I have a feeling they don't actually fit you in all the right places.
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Wed 11-12-13 14:07; edited 1 time in total
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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fatgaz, Just remove the bolt on the back of the heel it will drop the flex by 10-30 go to a shop and ask!
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fatgaz, How old are they? Something in what Avalanche Poodle, has just said has reminded me of something that might be relevant to you.
My first boots had go to about 5 years old and about 10 weeks skiing. They weren't beginners boots, but weren't far off so they weren't an overly high flex rating. However, I thought perhaps they had too much volume being beginners boots and as my skiing had improved (I think) I treated myself to new ones at the start of the year. My bootfitter offered me the obvious flex advance over the old ones. To my surprise I flexed the hell out of them - far more give than my old ones, so we tried the next ones up and the next!! Finally I discovered the degree of resistance that felt right (i.e. finally more resistant than the old ones) over three levels higher flex rating than the old one had been (by this I mean that in the range I went up from a flex aimed at at learner to nearly the highest the same manufacturer offered and completely missed those in the middle). Clearly this should not have been the case. However, when the bootfitter looked at the old ones and we compared them with the plastic of the new ones the conclusion we came to was that over time the plastic had got 'harder' as it had aged with the result that the boots had gradually got stiffer than they should have done as a result. For what its worth the old ones with the old plastic also 'squeaked' as I flexed them (I think due to the plastic's age) and the new ones don't, the new ones are also more flexible to put on!!.
Perhaps you don't have boots that are designed to be too stiff, maybe they are just old boots? I guess a bootfitter might be able to still modify them, but you might do worse than try some new ones and treat yourself. The boot-fitter I went to wasn't out to sell me new boots, and would have been quite OK with me walking out with my old ones, but the new ones just felt such a wholesale improvement that it wasn't even a consideration not to buy them.
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fatgaz, I speak from bitter experience. Making adjustments to your boots may soften the flex, and/or increase the range of movement. If you increase the range of movement beyond the flex in your ankle you are at risk of damaging your Achilles' tendon, this is bad. There could be any number of issues causing you problems, fit, flex, range, you need to understand what the problem is before jumping in with the hack saw. Removing the bolts will almost certainly increase the range of movement as well as the stiffness, don't do it unless you are sure about what you are doing and I guess that posting the question probably means you are unsure.
+1 for go to a shop.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Flex is not a universal rating and really you can only compare ratings across one manufacturer. Boots do sometimes come with cut lines to reduce flex and I think you can do it incrementally up to the cut line. I think there are other things they can do to make them less stiff, but they can't make a soft boot stiffer, so go incrementally and probably professionally. Maybe the cuff is a bit loose and a boot fitter could help with that?
I would consider the bolt issue first. HEad seem to sell all their boots advertising this a s a feature
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fatgaz, That boot has a nominal flex of "95" - which in my lay opinion is about as low as an intermediate adult would want to ski on. I really don't think your issue lies in the boots' inherent stiffness.
Bootfitter...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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maybe try a heel wedge to push you forward onto the balls of your feet before hacking away at the boot, might help you get your weight forward. a couple of friends with restricted fIex have had them in, in fact Head women's boots come with a "Lady Wedge" in the box as i believe its a common problem with the Ladies... and a great name!!!!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Hello All !
Lots for me to read there. I think the concensous is :
a) don't cut yout boot
b) find someone to ask about it & demonstrate how my boots flex & how the cuff is fitting my leg etc.
As far as flex rating etc. goes it says 110 on the boot. also I've taken the bolts out that are next to the canting bolts (a couple of years ago).
I don't think the plastic has got significantly harder.
I readily admit my rubbish ski technique is a factor here ! Its sort of why i asked the question, would softer boots help me a bit ?
Not sure about the cuff fit, when I had the liners heated up initially for fitting and when I had the sides blown out a bit, neither bootfitter commented about the cuff etc. not fitting well. I can lean back and forwards and compress the liner etc. a bit before the actually boot moves. I find that I start the day with the upper 2 buckles fairly loose and tighten them after a few runs.
Also not sure about wedges etc. I'm allready feeling that I'm on the balls of my feet, it actually made me wonder if I should put a small wedge under the heal to try to get weight distributed more evenly across my foot. I don't think I have any ankle flex issues, my range of movement is OK and is limited by the boot (as I assume it should be).
thanks for all the advice and ideas.
G.
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fatgaz, skiing on the balls of your feet would be fairly unusual, I've come across it in girls with very flex able ankles. I use a heel wedge but it sounds more like you need one under your toes. You may have answered your own question with the comment on technique, it might pay you to have an hour or so one to one with a good instructor you might ask him to help you get more centered and may be activate you ankles but he/she should Suss it out quite quickly. You should, most of the time be standing with your weight nicely distributed between your heel and ball. If you really are a fathaz you should have no problem mobilising a 110 boot.
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You know it makes sense.
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there are many reasons for using a heel lift, lack of flexiblilty is one of them... could the footbed not be giving you enough support and loading just the ball of the foot rather than the whole foot
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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fatgaz, I've got Salomon Falcon boots and I've taken out the flex bolts (which are towards the rear, slightly above ankle height)
They are also 110 rated with the bolts in, and with them out feel super flexy, so I think it's 'something else' if you're struggling to flex them
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Poster: A snowHead
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fatgaz,
Agree with red 27, the flex bolts are usually at the rear
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