 Poster: A snowHead
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Took advantage of the snowHeads ski test in Tignes yesterday to try the Whitedot Skis Ranger (Carbonlite version).
I was mainly interested in seeing how they performed on piste as I know they will be a strong performer off-piste. First impression: they are light! I guess there's a clue in their name. This was with rental bindings on, so with a pair of touring bindings I guess they'll feel featherlight. I prefer a relatively heavy alpine ski, so this was a minor concern that I wouldn't get on with them. As a comparison, I'd been skiing Head Titans all day, which are 78mm underfoot and a fair bit heavier despite being 7cm shorter than the Rangers. Turn radius on the Titans in 13.5m IIRC, and 24.5m on the Rangers so quite a difference.
During the time I spent on them I was interested in two things:
- What changes would I need to make to my skiing compared to the piste skis I'd been on earlier that day
- Once (if?) I'd made the changes what kind of performance could I get from the skis.
Did a couple of runs on the Rangers, mixing in short radius and long radius turns on red and blue pitches on the runs back to Val Claret. In short radius turns the main change I had to make was be a bit more poppy at transition to allow me to 'float' the ski in the first part of the turn, then get grip from the fall line or just after. I tuned in to this fairly quickly, even though it was quite a big change from what I'd been doing on my Titans earlier in the day. In long radius turns the main change was in my rate of movement across the skis at the start of the turn. This was more of a challenge for me and I kept moving across the skis too quickly , losing my connection to the outside ski and getting stuck on my inside ski. At speed this was a bit disconcerting, and I'd need to spend more time on the skis to get dialled in to the rate of movement.
In terms of performance I was very pleasantly surprised, especially for short turns. The skis felt very lively and responded consistently to any changes in my inputs. I was able to ski a narrow corridor at a reasonable speed and feel like I was getting a good performance from the ski in the second half of the turn. This was more than I was expecting. Not like a slalom ski, of course, but pretty good. I wasn't quite as impressed in long radius turns as I didn't feel I had quite as much control through the turn as I like. There was a longer period of "disconnect" at the transition from one turn to the next, and I felt like I was just railing them rather than being able to change the shape of the carved turn as I wanted. As a result I had one size of carved turn available to me, and wasn't able to blend from longs to mediums. More time on them might change my opinion as I really didn't feel like I'd made the necessary adjustments to my skiing for me to get the best out of them. As it was, I wouldn't have been happy to try to carve long radius turns on anything steeper than a blue. At speed they were very stable, despite me being aware that the tips were flapping a bit.
In conclusion, I was impressed by how well they performed outside of their natural environment. Obviously they aren't going to work like a dedicated piste ski, but the level of performance was less compromised than I thought it might be. Good work by the Whitedot boys and girls.
Finally, quick thanks to everyone arranging and running the ski test. Very decent of them to stand around for a couple of days talking with obvious passion for the skis that were available, setting up bindings and checking test skis in and out. Much appreciated, and for me one of the brilliant features of a snowHeads bash.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Which length were you on Rob?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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spyderjon, knew I'd forget something! 177cm.
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Great review rob@rar, I wonder have you been on the non-carbon versions to compare? Very interested in a pair of preachers, but trying to decide whether or not to go for carbonlites!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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SkiG, sorry, I only tried the CarbonLites. My guess is they wouldn't be that different going downhill, but others might have a more informed opinion.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Out of interest what do you think was stopping you adjusting turn shape of the carved turns? As I understand it the Ranger isn't that stiff?
I've got the 195 version but won't get to ski them until after Christmas and probably won't get into terrain that really warrants them until Feb. So will add my thoughts later. 
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| meh wrote: |
| Out of interest what do you think was stopping you adjusting turn shape of the carved turns? |
Two things:
- I couldn't set up the turn very well, as a result I never really developed high "g forces" early enough in the turn to progressively tip the skis to a bigger edge angle.
- I moved inside the turn too quickly, compounding the poor turn setup.
Result was all I could do was rail them.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| spyderjon, knew I'd forget something! 177cm. |
Is it mandatory for ski pros to ski them in girls' lengths? 
Nice review and far more precise than I could be. I tried a non carbon version at the MK test and the tune was so fresh Dot had to peel the sticker glue off. I thought it was a really nice ski despite the nasty nasty snow condition , pretty chuckable but able to get me into trouble for being sloppy. At one point I hooked up the wrong edge and converged on a pillar rather faster than I was intending. No criticism of the ski - a strong performer that rewards good technique while being skinny enough to not be a one trick pony. Good one-ski quiver type ski too I would think.
Carbolite Redeemers were nice too and very light in the non demo binding mount.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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fatbob, yeah my CarbonLite Redeemers are the lightest ski I have despite being longer and wider than most! Very fun with lots of pop and surprisingly stable in the chop for something so light. Plus they don't flop around too badly unlike other big rockered skis.
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rob@rar, cool, do you think you'd buy something similar?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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fatbob, it's the right length for me. I like to let my skiing do my talking rather than the length of my appendages
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| meh wrote: |
| rob@rar, cool, do you think you'd buy something similar? |
Yes, be very happy to have them in the quiver, and would have them mounted with touring bindings. I tend to ski on Head these days as they are great skis and Head UK are very nice to Inside Out, but I'm don't think they have anything similar in their range.
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rob@rar, where and when would you ski them?? Europe (touring with a guide), Japan, both???
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You know it makes sense.
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Really helpful, thank you - would it be too rude to ask your height and weight ? And when you say the right length are you thinking randonee or off piste? or Neither!??
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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kitenski, both I guess. At some stage in the next couple of years I'm going to be doing the EMS so good to have a nice touring setup. Plus it's nice to have new shiny things.
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Poster: A snowHead
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mishmash, I'm 173cm tall and currently about 70kg. All the off-piste skis I have are around that length as I prefer a turny ski. Going longer just feels like hard work.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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The Collective looks like the nearest Head ski on paper.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| mishmash, I'm 173cm tall and currently about 70kg. All the off-piste skis I have are around that length as I prefer a turny ski. Going longer just feels like hard work. |
thanks again - do you think it could be the fabled one ski quiver?????
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| mishmash wrote: |
| thanks again - do you think it could be the fabled one ski quiver????? |
No, because I don't think such a thing exists. All ski choice is a compromise, IMO. Ski designers can create skis which do somethings well, but the better they are are some things (such as skiing deep untracked snow on open faces, or short radius turns on firm snow, or going uphill as well as downhill) the less well suited they are to other situations. As skiers have different interests and different priorities when they are on the mountain I don't think it is possible to identify a particular ski which would suit everyone as an all-round compromise. For me on piste performance is a high priority, so other skis will be much more fun on than the Rangers. For others off-piste performance is a priority, but would prefer a bigger tip rocker to cope with the wide range of off-piste snow that you are going to be skiing if you're doing that every day. For those heavily in to their touring they might need something lighter and narrower as the uphill aspects will be a priority.
For ski choice I think the most important factor is to be on the ski that does well in the conditions that you ski the majority of the time, rather than stuff than you would like to do but is exceptional. IMO there is no point in buying a specialist off-piste ski if they only time you venture off groomed snow is to dabble by the side of the piste the day after it has snowed. No point in buying a race department GS ski if you spend half the week skiing off-piste. So, an honest assessment of what you skiing you will actually be doing, identify the category of ski that best meets that need then demo as many as you can until you find a pair that gives you confidence to push yourself and are fun to be on.
I'm in the fortunate position of not being restricted to one pair of skis, but if I were forced to choose it would probably be something in the region if 80-85mm underfoot, regular camber, turn radius around 17m and very stiff. That's not a reflection of my opinion of the Ranger Carbonlites, which I think is a lovely ski, but what I spend most of my time doing and where my priorities are in terms of performance.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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rob@rar, Good clarification of the one ski quiver. Perhaps the better definition is what is your "go-to" ski if circumstances dictate that you only have one ski available. To me one-ski-quiver implies that you've already experienced the benefits of having a quiver and appreciate the compromises that choosing one ski over a variety brings. Personally I'd be full of anxiety if I thought there was any chance of a powder day while I was away and I only had piste skis with me, as intrinsically I believe that wider ski is more usable all round than a specialist performance ski for me and one day of powder is at least worth 5 days of piste skiing to me. If I was a technical skiing god who tuned my kit to within an inch of its life every night such that I couldn't enjoy any element of imprecision I'd obviously have a different view (for extreme example, not a strawman of any individual). You just have to know where on the spectrum you fit.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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I have gotten a pair and have skied just the proto type/tester for a day last season but it is about the same.
I ski a 186 ( weight 68 with full combat gear on, 177cm) with dynafits .
I have owned and skied the Ragnarok 193 ( scary in a fun way) liked the basic concept but just would have liked a little less of it, cause I only can manage a few redbull fueled runs a day. For me that is the Ranger. It's like my dearly beloved 190 K2 AK banana yellow launchers reincarnated with rocker and a decent edge hold, some pop , fatter yet lighter .
Ranger (proto, but similar to production) one full day in chamonix/gm with loads of vertical, some powder, some windblown, some concrete.
I think it is brilliant. It's just a ski I forgot about instantly, stiff enough , fat enough, float enough, slarves when needed, carves well ( if you have the space and are good at dodging touristes at 60 mph) and it has a proper backside. I have a Redeemer 190 as well and while it is great, I prefer the ranger on good wide open powder snow mostly because it does not have tail rocker, which is a godsend in heavy crap snow btw.
For me a quiver of one. I can ski piste on these things fine. I need a ski that is light enough to take up a mountain, easy enough to ski with tired legs and works on variable snow conditions and steep concrete, yet is fun in pow.
For me It does it all and it's not dull while doing it. Next year if budget allows i'll get a carbonlite 177 pair to use for long tours and steep stuff.
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Hi guys, just a quick one from me and the rest of the Whitedot crew who were at Tignes. We had a great few days riding and beer drinking, great to talk to everyone who would put up with our ski geekery and we hope to see you again at the EOSB! Here's a short video of myself and Steve proving that we are, undoubtedly, the best skiers on the mountain...
http://vimeo.com/81091206
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the_doc, I can't believe you're a pro - I'm so much better than you.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
the_doc, I can't believe you're a pro - I'm so much better than you.
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I'm sorry, that just not possible, no one can pole wack like me 
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The winds finally abated in Iceland and my little one is no longer on a completely crazy schedule so I had a chance to get out on my Ranger CarbonLites. The stormy conditions meant that I was mostly stuck on piste. Everything that hadn't been groomed was wind polished to a nice sheen and fun skiing it wasn't, although the Rangers coped fine with keeping things closed down.
For those interested in such things here are my vitals for comparison:
Height - 185cm
Weight - 80kg
Skis wot I like and own - Orange BD Verdict from a few years ago, Black Crows Corvus and the Whitedot Redeemer CarbonLite.
Rob linked to Whitedot's page but here it is again:
http://www.whitedotskis.com/ranger-carbonlite
My Ranger CarbonLites are mounted with Dynafit Beasts and I've been skiing them with Dynafit Mercurys I bought and wore all last season. I bought the Ranger CarbonLites as a "freeride touring" and resort ski. Iceland has no real trees on the mountains and a lot of big open slopes. So a long ski with a large turn radius is an ideal choice for charging in good conditions. I was initially in a bit of a quandry about what to mount them with as I've been skiing Dynafits exclusively for the past six years but wanted a more elastic binding to ski a bit harder in more marginal conditions with all the advantages of a tech binding. Spyderjon happened to get some Beasts in with the perfect brake size, a little expensive but IMO the fill they niche pretty well.
For a ski that is a good bit taller than me it feels and skis reasonably short. The effective edge is listed at 145.5cm which you can well believe when making short turns on hardpack piste. The rocker itself is reasonably long and doesn't splay too much in keeping with most modern ski designs, it's also set back a bit from the widest point of the ski making turn initiation very smooth. As with the Redeemer CarbonLite I found this ski to have a really nice pop thanks to the carbon in it. As you might expect from a ski with a 30m turn radius is likes to go fast in longer turns! I headed up mid-week which gave me the perfect opportunity to push things a bit without any danger of finding people dawdling on the other side of rollers. I took my GoPro and recorded a few laps:
https://vimeo.com/83756734
I fully expect this ski to come into it's own off-piste with some actual snow to ski in as opposed to neve to skate on!
I found the Beasts to be excellent as well, these conditions normally leave me with sore feet and knees from all the vibration transmitted up when skiing fast on normal Dynafits. That was all gone skiing with the Beasts. They definitely add to my confidence skiing faster on rougher ground without wondering if I'm about to hit the elastic limit. I can't say I noticed the flatter ramp angle at all but if things like that matter to you then it's there.
Am really looking forward to getting them out onto some proper mountains.
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Thu 9-01-14 18:11; edited 1 time in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Just to add I think in general this would make a great all-mountain ski for good skiers. The 195 version is a bit different to the shorter lengths, it's wider at 110mm underfoot and AFAIK a little stiffer but not in any sense in an overpowering manner.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Tried these (and the non-Carbon ones) at the Castleford test day. Fell in love with them. They felt much livelier than the standard ones (which were still nicer than most of the 8 or so other skis I demoed that day). The only snag? £800. If only I did the lottery...
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Had these out in some wind sculpted fresh snow dealing with everything from ice, styrofoam crud to wind crusted fresh snow. Once I'd got the feel for the skis they were excellent at blasting through the chop and weren't skittish at all. You definitely needed to be on top of them otherwise the poppiness and lighting weight of the ski meant it got thrown around. I nearly lost the tip a couple of times crashing into the firm skin of the next snow pillow so they're not the best crud ski ever but you'd hardly expect them to be. They skied the cut up snow later in the morning well, they did deflect a bit but it was a case of absorbing and driving the skis positively. I think I prefer the Corvus as a crud ski mind you.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Stevo wrote: |
| Tried these (and the non-Carbon ones) at the Castleford test day. Fell in love with them. They felt much livelier than the standard ones (which were still nicer than most of the 8 or so other skis I demoed that day). The only snag? £800. If only I did the lottery... |
Stevo, I can do you a deal
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| spyderjon wrote: |
Stevo, I can do you a deal |
OK, just got back from a week in lots of fresh snow on my BD Stigmas and I think I'm ready to relegate them to touring-only. Looking for something wider for deep stuff, but which is still hike-able. What sort of deal might be possible? I'd be looking to get both pairs of skis fitted with Quiver Killers so I can swap my Fritschis back and forth.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Stevo, I can't PM you as you're 'down a crevasse' so please email at jonATthepisteoffice.com & I'll get back to you by return. Please inc length required & either traditional or carbonlite construction. Or you can call me with your requirements - my number's in the contact tab on my website.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Tue 28-01-14 22:24; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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spyderjon,
Thanks for recommending the (standard) Rangers. Having a great time on them out iin Tignes. They are performing brilliantly in powder, giving me great improvements and finally I'm getting the powder bug  they are performing quite well on-piste considering their width and are responsive to changes in direction. Not found a quiet enough piste to carve them, but stable enough so far.
If you're looking for an off piste ski that still works on the piste, I'd try these out.
I'm skiing 186 length and I'm just over 6' and 87 Kg.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Scottish Scrutineer, . How's the missus liking the Chams?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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spyderjon,
She's getting on fine with them. She might have have needed more float for powder, but as an all rounder, they are coping well with all conditions. She didn't ski on the last day as her knee was a bit painful and swollen, but altogether not bad <12 months after a tibial spine fracture and the other damage. Just waiting to see if everything settles before booking a trip in March
Thanks for the advice
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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I mounted a pair of Schizos on some 186cm Ranger CL's for a customer (he's 180cm/82kg) & he's played around with the mounting point quite a bit. The skis have a pretty big sweet spot & anything from the FR line to +15mm (of the FR line) seems great although he now just leaves them set on the FR line. I've mounted all my other customers with fixed position bindings (a good mix of alpine, alpine tourers & tech bindings) on the FR line & they all love 'em.
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Well, I took spyderjon up on his deal and bought a pair. Just got back from four days in Les Gets, with great conditions - lots of fresh snow for a test in all conditions: off-piste and in deep powder on the blacks off the back of Mont Cherie, groomed pistes and variables everywhere else and moguls and slush at the end of the day. The verdict: absolutely fantastic. These skis are brilliant! My powder skiing has been transformed and they coped admirably with short turns on piste and down moguls. Gripped well on the few icy patches around last weekend - the unrockered tail really grips. Light, poppy and I even managed to get them carving, despite their width; albeit you need a very wide, empty piste for this! I can't imagine how any ski can top this. Expensive, but soooo worth it. Highly recommended. Congratulations to Whitedot. And thanks to spyderjon for the deal and fitting the Quiverkillers so I could save on bindings by transferring my Fritschis.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Just saw Fred S walking through Cham carrying some white (with the dots though) prototypes. Looked a nice shaped ski, mix between Ranger and Ragnarok at a glance. I could be talking bollox though.
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spyderjon, yep I'm sure its just me being used to a more centre-mounted position that made it look like it would be too far back... and without having tried bang on the FR point who knows! (And part of me questions whether I would feel any noticeable difference in most conditions...).
the_doc, bring 'em on!
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FAQ
