 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Oh god it's going to turn into UKC.
Ethics in climbing is hardly a settled thing and is incredibly geographic. Ethics in skiing would be hilarious, is a descent in powder at Mach speed better than picking your way down the same thing as boilerplate? Both require application of good skills and arguably the latter is more dangerous due to having less tolerance for mistakes. Skiing conditions are also a lot more changeable to the point where each descent is different.
Ethics in climbing basically boils down to "did I climb it first?" and "could I have climbed it first if no one else had?". It'd be sad if skiing went that way rather than being about travelling through the mountains.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| meh wrote: |
| Oh god it's going to turn into UKC. |
Baggsie I'm Al Evans 
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meh, Bring back GreyRuff the badger  I only posted this in an attempt to make people think a little. So many watch the vid's online and aspire to do those same lines, drop ins, chutes etc. I'm with you on this, but I also don't want to see so many nice routes just become tick lists. Just a call to make people think about why they are skiing a line, and if another less well known line may provide more pleasure to them.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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And you are talking about published ethos... not the personal reasons behind doing any route. I'd hate to see skiing go that way 
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red 27, Lets get the old gear nesting discussions going... Bring back CrisC 
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Avalanche Poodle, it's too late for tick lists. Why is Cham so popular? It has a big tick list of steeps to ski, has easy access and is marketed on that fact.
Published ethos is what climbing ethics are about, the entire point is that everyone agrees on what is acceptable. It's bolting and bolt chopping, pros putting pro where they shouldn't, chipping holds because people have freed your line and all sorts of crap. Are side runners acceptable? Is this route in winter nick? If it was about personal decisions there wouldn't be the pressure to on sight and redpoint.
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meh, The article was about someone making a personal decision not to ski a line because the conditions had ruled out what it meant to him in his own personal dreams. Some people had said that he should have skied the line anyway. And in climbing, there is still massive disagreement on certain local ethics. The only point I was making was that people should get back to doing things for themselves, for their own dreams. But if no one discusses it then everyone is just in the dark. What is your actual point please?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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And I agree about the tick list competition.
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Avalanche Poodle, the article is about the need for a discussion of ethics in the "ski community". Andreas made a decision to climb and then ski the line anyway albeit without going to the top and was criticised. If it was about personal decision making then there is no need to discuss anything. What Andreas is asking for explicitly is ideology and dogma. It only counts to ski something if you did it a certain way. That's very much a public decision and nothing to do with thinking about how you ski something.
Turn around because you don't want to ski something, don't turn around because a bunch of other people have proclaimed you shouldn't as it's not within the bounds of appropriate style. Likewise don't just ski something because people think you should of.
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Sat 30-11-13 22:03; edited 1 time in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Ah... I did not take the article in quite that way. I took it in more of a personal anecdote. Perhaps we should interrogate the author 
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I still think that discussion is a good thing... after all, you are here to discuss the issue because you read it on a public posting. I agree, dogma has no place. But discussion does make people aware of issues and (ok, in the minds of the few with functioning brains) may lead them to think more deeply.
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You know it makes sense.
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Like chatting about a route in a bar afterwards... but in the digital form, and without some other bug bringing you your drinks.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Avalanche Poodle, I actually think it'd be really interesting to hear his thoughts on ethics in more detail. It's inescapable in my opinion that this will become a thing because humans do like to wave their tackle about.
I don't get your first post though, where you point out the need for discussing ethics and style on forums around the globe! Surely that's something more than personal? My experience of ethics in climbing is that they ossify in 'tradition' so any comparison makes me immediately think of that and the 'excellent' UKC ethics threads.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Ah.. .I'm based in North Wales and there are a lot of new areas opening up as old quarry workings become available, retro bolting takes place on sea cliffs etc... it is very fluid in certain respects. I was just calling for observations on what skiing a line means to people... IMHO, if enough start talking about the personal experience than that 'may' influence other people. If we just leave it for the you tube video posts to guide newcomers thne the result may be not quite what we wished for.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Seriously. 
The whole thing is so for up its own bottom it probably needs a head torch.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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And I agree with you, local ethics should take precedence.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Lizzard, yes but the important question is whether or not it would be ethical to take a head torch!!!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Lizzard, It was a simple call for people to stop and think for an instant. Almost all of the media attention is on people grabbing the biggest drops, the steepest line, the hardest descent. Myself, I just like to get out in the hills and do my own thing.
Have you much experience in self exploratory speleology?
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meh, The main question is whether an oxy acetylene lamp would lead to self ignition 
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Avalanche Poodle, I have no expectations of other people in what and how they want to ski something. That's the point of it actually being a personal decision.
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Avalanche Poodle, oo'er.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Missus
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| Quote: |
meh, The main question is whether an oxy acetylene lamp would lead to self ignition
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Oh! the way I've been today, I would have enough thrust to ski any 60' line, going up!, think I'll skip the omlette tomorrow breakfast.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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My word, a meanngless thread of two persons.
Must be unique.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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under a new name, not as unique as your ability to count! 
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You know it makes sense.
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BTW, just in case you become a pedantic cunt the quote I made was going from memory from 1984.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| meh wrote: |
| Avalanche Poodle, I have no expectations of other people in what and how they want to ski something. That's the point of it actually being a personal decision. |
But the question is... could you perhaps encourage others to think about how they treat the mountains.
Like it or not, the peaks are becoming to be seen as more of a playground than a way of life for a great many people.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Not sure it goes anywhere near as far as ethics but the general theme is a fair point really, charging something is pretty different to slideslipping it. I sometimes feel the same in reverse seeing some ski movies where the entire line is done in some airs a couple of super-G turns, and a big straightline into some high-fiving bros at the bottom.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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The point is that there is a big difference between being disappointed by how you skied something and being disappointed in how someone else skied it. Ethics is a debate about the latter that informs the former.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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That is just one point of a whole topic. Or... ethics is a reasoned evaluation of the scene as a whole and an attempt to come to an inclusive personal approach that you can then take to new situations. Please stop taking a personal viewpoint as a dogma... discussion on the in's and out's can inspire, turn off, trigger ideas etc. That is all.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Have you cum yet... I want to watch movies now?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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What has 'ethics' got to do with a load of rich arseholes having a permanent holiday arsing around up mountains, slightly disagreeing about how to haw-de-haw their way back down to the pub for champagne and tedious storytelling, before helicoptering off to their next masturbatory conquest?
Ethics?
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You mean 'aesthetics'. Possibly 'conformity'.
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Mr Pieholeo, I'm afraid that if you can't tell the difference between a '75 and a '78 vintage then you are just not a real skier. May your acidic values burn holes in your foreskin every time you pull it back in response to another empty valued ski movie.
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I haven't got a foreskin you anti-semite!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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LOLocaust 
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LMAOschwitz.
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FAQ
elitist policing of skiing. 
