 Poster: A snowHead
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We are heading out to France for the season at the end of the month and discussed trying to save some money by not using the toll roads where possible. I'm pretty happy the Sat Nav can handle it but does anyone have any experience of doing/trying this and if it is likely to be cheaper when you factor in the extra petrol costs? Any ideas about how much longer it could take appreciated too.
Going from Calais to La Rosiere.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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You will get to La Rosiere in time to turn around and start for home 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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i've done it to chamonix once and i wouldnt do it again. assuming you'll come this way and then through the tunnel i'd just spend an extra night at home between now and then (not in the pub) and use the saved money on the toll.
it'll take you probably 10hrs from calais to rosier via tolls, but perhaps 14/15hrs without. factor in the extra petrol and a couple of speeding tickets along the way and its not worth it 
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Via Michelin says :
"Avoid Tolls" (E411 & N57):
1019 km (754 on M/ways).
13h 08 mins ( 7h 52 mins on M/ways)
Tolls: € 40.90, Road tax € 29.12 (vignette????)
Diesel : 115.52
Total: € 181.54
Regular recommended route (A26/A40)
950km (873 on Mways)
09h 41 (08h 01 on Mways)
Tolls 118.40
Diesel 99.18
Total € 217.58
AKA: €36.4 difference or € 10.55 per hour
Depends if your value your time at more that € 10.55 per hour  and the consequent impact on your time on holiday etc etc
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Mon 4-11-13 20:39; edited 1 time in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Perfectly doable. French non-toll roads are generally pretty quiet. You'll enjoy the journey more too. Factor in an extra night, and see some of France!
Alternatively, go through Germany and use the free autobahns (if you're brave).
If you're doing 55mph most of the time, your petrol will cost you less than doing 80mph (probably).
Having had a little play, google reckons the Autoroute will take you 1000 km and 9 hours; an autoroute-free route is 1000km and 16 hours; going via the autobahn 1250km and 13 hours.
Viamichelin reckons €80 of tolls for a car. Depends how you value your time/fun/travel.
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I reckon you will save on the petrol as well - you'll be driving sufficiently slowly that you won't use as much!
Seriously I wouldn't do it just to save the toll money. If you want a break from tthe toll roads to see the scenery etc. then maybe but not just to save a few quid
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4 Hours longer. Fuel should balance out as you will be going a bit slower. Belgium, roads are not as good/bumpier/noisier/
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Dont do it, I wouldnt wish that none toll route on my worst enemy 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Don't do it.
The French route nationals are intolerable over such a distance, there's normally a roundabout or tractor every 200metres. Google doesn't take that into account.
You also save on fuel crusing at a constant speed on the motorway rather than all the stop starts in French villages.
I know this for sure because I record fuel consumption like a proper nerd, and the best I get is always the drive back and forth from the UK sitting at a constant 110kph.
French motorways are nothing like British ones, you generally just glide along, the only downside is the 4 hours of absolutely nothingness when you start the journey from the north. It's very, very boring.
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I have done non-toll routes, or blended the two in the past and am thinking of alternative ways to get to Pila this year because the apartment booking is Sunday to Sunday so we have time to spare on the way out.
However, for La Rosiere all the variations seem to be deviations which add lots of time and/or are vulnerable to the weather (so may take for ever).
They also do not seem to go anywhere more interesting than the direct route e.g. four hours of nothingness in the North is no different to the four hours (non-toll) to Metz.
Conclusion, it does not make much sense.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I used to do it fairly regularly on a motorbike, not so much to save money, but motorways are even more tedious on a bike. Basically I would leave the south of France or the Alps ride north to Langres, camp for the night. Next day would be up the St Omer area, camp again and the final day home. It did have bits that were scenic and interesting and we would stop to look at Rheims cathedral or similar, but overall it made me realise what a big country France is and how much of it is forest or wheat fields
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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This thread is had to read on a phone.
FFS, unless you are on minimum wage use tolls.
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| albinomountainbadger wrote: |
Don't do it.
French motorways are nothing like British ones, you generally just glide along, |
Not sit in traffic for hours, they also understand what the "over taking" lane is for. Unlike millions of retards here.
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You know it makes sense.
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I drove to the Alps and on to the Cote D'Azure in the summer using non-toll routes. It was a lovely drive but it took forever, if I was in any way pressed for time I'd use the tolls.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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mishmash, your viamichelin link has broken the page!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| albinomountainbadger wrote: |
| mishmash, your viamichelin link has broken the page! |
Oops sorry now fixed, I hope.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I've done it in our camper which, because of its size, attracts over 3 times the toll rate of cars. It took the best part of 3 days to get from Warrington to Bourg d'Oisans. Yes, you pass through lots of interesting villages but you don't have time to stop and look because you've still a long way to go. There's lots of traffic with many articulated lorries too so you can't travel at much speed. And too many mayors think it's a great idea to bypass their town with lots of roundabouts. Yer, it slows down the traffic but then it has to use loads of fuel to get up to speed to the next one. It must be terrible for the local air quality.
At least our B&B was free!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I usually cut the corner from just past Bourg en Bresse to Chambery by using the non toll roads rather than staying on the autoroute past Lyon airport.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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As you are going for the season , I assume you are not in a hurry but as they say it will take about 4 hours longer as every village you come to has a speed limit to slow down for, roundabouts, men on bicycles with onions etc. Would be a pleasant drive if it's decent weather and an overnight stay is a must- it's more tiring than the autoroute imo - the autoroute is only tiring because it's so boring. In fact why not take a few days over it and get right off the beaten track? And take a map and your common sense as well.
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Thanks everyone, I think we will use the autoroutes out there and maybe have a more leisurely drive home.
Filthyphil30k, yep, minimum wage all the way! Check out albinomountainbadgers website for details (all the tolls are about 2 weeks wages), we are that tight!
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If you really want to avoid the tolls and save a few quid, head to Brussels then Luxembourg. Fuel up here where its normally 20-30 cents a litre cheaper than France. Towards Nancy then it will be N roads to your resort. About half the route will be on a duel carriageway type road. More than one driver will make it so much easier.
Have fun
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dheason, glorious idea for any time other than winter, take a week or two or three, eat, drink, become a Gaul and discover you inner Sybaris . . . Or be a parsimonious scrote and waste a day's skiing . . . Cos that drive will knacker you . . . Take it from someone who does that mileage 6 times a week
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I did it from the 3 Valleys once, over two very leisurely days, with (then) teenage daughter, stopping for various sights. You go along almost the entire WW1 front on the last half, with cemeteries for all the various nationalities - very sobering. I would recommend the trip, if you have time to spare.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Nick a credit card - they never check them at the tolls as it would take too long
That's a cheaper but hardly legal way of doing it
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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It's no cheaper, but we recently took up Eurotunnel's offer of a discounted "T" electronic toll gadget beepy thing, it was an annual fee of €3 and it saves a lot of slowing down stopping, opening window, trying to reach the machine cos driver is incompetent or passenger's arms too short, hassle (and credit cards sometimes charge for use abroad). The bill will come monthly to OH's bank account. Simples. It worked brilliantly on our last trip - bit of an anxious moment the first time, a bit like when you recharge your ski pass online, you are never entirely sure that the technology works...but it did.
Do not speed in the run up to toll booths - you are easy pickings.
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dheason, whilst I share collective opinion that your original idea isn't worth the hassle, if you stick generally to the autoroutes, there are a lot of "short cuts" you can take which can save you money, alleviate boredom and not necessarily add much time to the journey. Some of these aren't worth the hassle either, but I'm a big fan of coming off at Chalons-en-Champagne and re-joining at Chaumont; difference in journey time is generally 10-15 minutes on that one, and I think it saves about 10-15 quid. 
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You know it makes sense.
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harrisonygwningen, that's brilliant, will give that go for sure.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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dheason, If you were heading to the the Portes des Soleil or Switzerland you could continue your off autoroute experience by tracking through Langres, Gray, Besancon and then onto to Lausanne before rejoning
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Poster: A snowHead
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| gixxerniknik wrote: |
Talking of which, does anyone know what the new gantries are over the E401/E3 in between Caen & Rennes? There has to be over two dozen camera type things pointing at each carraigeway.  |
went under a couple of very similar set ups around perigeuex the weekend, very weird, looks basically like a ton of camera's pointing at the different lanes, must have been about 5 cameras on each lane!?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
heading to the the Portes des Soleil or Switzerland you could continue your off autoroute experience by tracking through Langres, Gray, Besancon and then onto to Lausanne
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Frankly I would do that anyway. Motorway via Geneva is vastly further, and so busy it is definitely not faster IME
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| eddiethebus wrote: |
| gixxerniknik wrote: |
Talking of which, does anyone know what the new gantries are over the E401/E3 in between Caen & Rennes? There has to be over two dozen camera type things pointing at each carraigeway. |
went under a couple of very similar set ups around perigeuex the weekend, very weird, looks basically like a ton of camera's pointing at the different lanes, must have been about 5 cameras on each lane!? |
Saw them in the summer and can only assume they are similar to the ANPR ones which you get on various UK m'ways
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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yeah maybe, that would make sense...
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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They might be gantries for the now suspended HGV ecotaxe.
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Ok so have a look at the cameras here http://about-france.com/geo/motorways.htm and tell me if this is what you saw.
If so it would appear to be for a new means of tracking and charging HGVs, which the linked pages would seem to indicate won't ever happen!
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Looks similar to the Austrian ones.
German ones have bigger cameras.
edit: i think (assume) they have more cameras and radar detectors than lanes, so they work with contra flow, roadworks etc. too.
Seems a bit silly having them on French Autoroutes if they have to go thru toll booths. Even sillier than Slovenia, where they have tollbooths too, but a vignette system for cars+motorbikes which can drive straight thru the "fast lane" booth.
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| Quote: |
Seems a bit silly having them on French Autoroutes if they have to go thru toll booths
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Very! I suppose the box could open a barrier without much delay, but still going to cause delays as anything over3.5t has to filter into a dedicated lane
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Boris, it will definitely happen one day, 'suspended' in France just means, 'paused until no-one is looking'! As well as the millions spent on the gantries and other infrastructure, a Minister was quoted saying it has to go ahead as the contracts to manage it have been signed.
I heard a commentator say the other day that the most likely outcome will be a typical Hollande fudge wherein the ecotax is brought in and active, but the Bretons who are currently burning everything in sight in protest will get a hefty discount/rebate!
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And suppose there is the option that a lot of freight will switch to N roads?
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