I'm a confident black-run skier looking to venture off-piste this season, and after a bit of dabbling last season, I'm booked onto a couple of weeks of off-piste and ski-touring courses. I've previously hired skis and am now in the process of buying my own ski touiring set-up.
This'll be my first set of skis, and I expect to be using them in Scotland and the Alps in the following proportions: skiing on-piste 10% of the time, 40% lift-based off-piste use, and 50% ski touring. I'm 160cm tall and weigh 68kg. I've purchased for a pair of Scarpa Maestrales (MP size 26) from a UK ski shop, and have settled on getting a pair of K2 Waybacks which will be 167cm in length.
For bindings, given I'm not particularly heavy and the skis I'm looking at aren't particularly wide or long, I'm struggling to choose between Fritschi Freeride Pro and the lighter Eagle 12 bindings... Any opinions gratefully received!
Many thanks,
Phil
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Maestrales are great if they fit your feet, K2 Waybacks are a much loved ski.
.... but for bindings go dynafit. Dynafit bindings ski far better and weigh much less (plus you don't have any extra weight on your foot when sliding the ski).
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
philgriffiths, I'd second DB, Dynafit is the way forward for a touring setup. Frame binding wise you also look at the lighter Marker bindings.
+1 for Dynafits as you already have boots with the tech inserts.
For a framed binding then I'd have the torsionally stiffer way better downhill skiing Marker F10's over the tall flexy poorer skiing Fritschi's any day.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
+3 for dynafit. I had fritschi for years but would not go back now if they were giving them away. Plus the Maestrals are compatible.
Hmmm... Well that's thrown a spanner in the works! I was put off Dynafits because the Fritschis look to be better in terms of safety release. I'm only really starting out properly off-piste this season and so do expect to be falling over quite a bit.
Do you still think I should consider a Dynafit style binding over the Fritschis? A quick look suggests something like the "Dynafit TLT Radical ST" or "Dynafit TLT Vertical ST" would fit the bill?
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
philgriffiths wrote:
Hmmm... Well that's thrown a spanner in the works! I was put off Dynafits because the Fritschis look to be better in terms of safety release. I'm only really starting out properly off-piste this season and so do expect to be falling over quite a bit.
Do you still think I should consider a Dynafit style binding over the Fritschis? A quick look suggests something like the "Dynafit TLT Radical ST" or "Dynafit TLT Vertical ST" would fit the bill?
Those that criticise Dynafit from a safety point of view don't understand how the bindings work as they have both lateral release & vertical release in the heel which is arguably better as the pivot point in a rotary fall is directly under the heel like the alpine Look/FKS Pivot bindings. Were there is an issue is with big guys/high din users skiing hard, usually on wider skis on hard snow, as the toe can pre-release at around 8 din & the only way to prevent this is to lock the toe out which on my Wintersteiger torque testing machine puts the release up to 14/15 din. At your stats you're going to be under that din setting so you'll always release out of the heel first so it's a non issue.
The Vertical range are now discontinued apart from the old brakeless Vertical Speed which is now called the Speed Turn which is the same binding but with +/-12.5mm of heel adjustment as opposed to the original +/-3mm. If you want brake levers then go for the Radical ST or for sans brakes (ie using a leash) then there's the Radical Speed or the Speed Turn. The Radical design has a number of improvements of the old Vertical design. I've got 'em all in stock
After all it is free
After all it is free
The big advantage with the Dynafits is that they're half the weight & in every stride you're not lifting the weight of the frame & heel binding. And remember that half a kilo on the feet is worth three kilos on your back. The other benefit is that you've a direct metal to metal contact on the boot/binding interface which makes for great feel as opposed to a frame binding were the boot/binding interface is a squidgy vibram sole - although it's fair to say that same metal to metal contact of the tech bindings can make for a bit of a rattly ride on hardpack.
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spyderjon, Although if your technique is up to scratch you are not actually picking the weight up
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Avalanche Poodle, err, you have to lift your heel to skin ergo you have to lift the frame and most of the binding even if you're a skinning god which in my experience is incredibly rare. Not only that but the Dynafit toe pivots in a much more natural place which makes skinning with a reasonable technique easier.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
meh wrote:
Avalanche Poodle, err, you have to lift your heel to skin ergo you have to lift the frame and most of the binding.....
Avalanche Poodle, this
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And to prove the point further as to the benefits of a tech binding, Fritschi are launching their own frameless tech binding in January
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
spyderjon wrote:
And to prove the point further as to the benefits of a tech binding, Fritschi are launching their own frameless tech binding in January
Whats your take on it so far ? Any idea of the price point ?
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
AndAnotherThing.., It looks alot like everything else will for the next few years.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
399 eurosdollar
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
spyderjon, thanks for your advice. I didn't know about your shop before, and I also live quite close to you and so will very likely be using your services in the future.
I'm still not completely sold on pin bindings yet... Did you also know that the Fritschi Vipec pin binding coming out in January does feature lateral toe release?
I've been googling like mad and found plenty of guides and ski professionals evangelising Dynfits, but this guide's web pages are worrying me:
If you are only beginning skiing off-piste and ski touring I doubt you will be going very far very soon so probably don't have to go the tech bindings way yet. Fritschi Freeride should suffice, or Salomon Guardians/Atomic Trackers. These season they will be available with lower DIN settings. Fritschis feel a bit sketchy on hard packed snow due to their height, Guardians have much lower profile. They are heavy but will be OK for short tours and they will be better for resort skiing.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
philgriffiths,
I wouldn't put an absolute beginner on Dynafits but you ski blacks don't you? Beginner skiers need the binding release to be more sensitive because they get themselves in all sorts of positions before a fall. They also "fall in slowmotion".
After a time Fritchi bindings have a lot of lateral Flex. 2 seasons ago I had one pair of touring skis with fritschi and one with dynafits - the dynafits were way better and so last season I put dynafits on the other skis too.
If you are planning to use the skis for a lot of piste skiing too then I'd point you in the direction of Marker F10's (as others have mentioned). I wouldn't go with anything that hasn't been tried / tested and is used by many - the last thing you want is having to wait weeks for parts. (esp if it happens on a ski touring holiday).
Yes the new dynafits had a few issues (heel Piece rotating, climbing piece breaking) but these are quickly fixed / sorted pretty much everywhere in ski touring land. It tends to be bigger skiers (big boned not fat ) that break them as opposed to us sub 75kg lean and mean tourers.
I'm a little taller and heavier than you and went for the Dynafit TLT Radical ST. Didn't go FT as my skis are Sub 100mm waist and apparently the ski crampons are hindered on the FT's.
I'm a big fan of UCPA so expect to be doing resort-based off-piste weeks with them for the next couple of seasons at least. It would make more sense for me to make use of their fatter skis with beefier bindings which will be included with the price, and I can also use them with my alpine boots.
Having really thought about what I'll be using the Waybacks for, I do expect that I'll be touring on them almost entirely, so I'll take a bit of a calculated risk and start out on a Dynafit binding.
The Vertical does appear to be a more reliable design than the Radical, and Sport Conrad still have stock of the Dynafit Vertical ST with a brake to fit the Waybacks at a good price, and so I've now placed an order with them. A pair of 12/13 Waybacks mounted with Vertical ST bindings, skins and Dynafit crampons all came to EUR 658.95. (~£558).
Thanks all for your help.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
philgriffiths wrote:
Hi,
First time posting on here so please be gentle!
I'm a confident black-run skier looking to venture off-piste this season, and after a bit of dabbling last season, I'm booked onto a couple of weeks of off-piste and ski-touring courses. I've previously hired skis and am now in the process of buying my own ski touiring set-up.
This'll be my first set of skis, and I expect to be using them in Scotland and the Alps in the following proportions: skiing on-piste 10% of the time, 40% lift-based off-piste use, and 50% ski touring. I'm 160cm tall and weigh 68kg. I've purchased for a pair of Scarpa Maestrales (MP size 26) from a UK ski shop, and have settled on getting a pair of K2 Waybacks which will be 167cm in length.
For bindings, given I'm not particularly heavy and the skis I'm looking at aren't particularly wide or long, I'm struggling to choose between Fritschi Freeride Pro and the lighter Eagle 12 bindings... Any opinions gratefully received!
Many thanks,
Phil
I'm 66 kg and the breakdown of time spent on snow is (was) similar to yours. For quite a while I skied everything on Fritshi Eagle bindings and Scarpa Denali boots; which are similar in performance to the Maestrales. Dynafit wasn't an option for me because the Denalis wouldn't accept pin bindings. However I've found the Eagles to be superb. I think many of the criticisms by Dynafit followers are based on older designs. I think that only much heavier skiers need the extra beef of the Freeride Pro bindings. The old Fritshi ve Dynafit debate will go on forever, but suffice to say I know Guides in both camps - I don't really think it makes as much difference as some people claim.
I've also now got a separate set up for lift based off piste (including up to an hours skinning) with Black Diamond factor boots, Whitedot Preachers and Marker F10 bindings. The Markers feel much more solid than the Eagles and I presume Dynafit bindings for driving fat skis hard. Whilst I'd be happy to do short tours in them they are heavier than the eagles and not as easy to adjust the heel height on undulating terrain
On the rocks, sounds like you've not actually skied both. That difference between the Marker and Fritschi bindings you noted is true between Dynafit and Fritschi too even on fat skis. Which is not to say that the Fritschi bindings are not fit for purpose but that relatively speaking there are better bindings available.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Friend of mine who tends to buy a new touring setup every season has Fritschi Freeride Pro, Fritschi Eagles and Dynafit (all recent - since 2009). He's not going back to Fritschi, in fact I've never heard of anyone going back to Fritschi after touring with dynafit. Riding Fritschi is like driving a car with a loose steering rack, it's a reall nightmare if you are trying to carve. Probably doesn't affect older style side skidding / tail flapping techniques as much.
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Mon 4-11-13 9:52; edited 1 time in total
After all it is free
After all it is free
Thanks DB, interesting link. If I was starting out again I would try Dynafit. However at the time, as well as getting a great deal on end of line (pinless) Denalis which were fitted superbly by BackcountryUK, another attraction of the Eagles was being able to use my original alpine boots with them too. This may still be a perceived benefit for people getting their first touring rig. However for me (and maybe others) this turned out to be irrelevant as I was able to ski better in my well fitted touring boots than in my original badly fitted alpine boots.
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I've got some Fritschi freeride pro to try this year, they were cheap in a clearance sale and are supposedly good going uphill, but I've no idea how good they are downhill, I haven't used them yet.
I have them mounted with quiver killers and also have proper bindings for skiing from the lifts, so it isn't a big deal if I don't like them. Plus I also have some other skis with Marker F12's from last year that I can use. The markers ski ok but were often a pain switching back from tour to ski mode which is why I want to try the Fritschi's.
If I get into touring properly I'll probably go for new boots and dynafits.
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Ski the Net with snowHeads
On the rocks,
I believe the Wildsnow test I linked to tested newer equipment - over time the fritschis become much worse and the performance gap between them and other bindings becomes much greater.
The only time I would have had a much easier time with Fritschis was on a long rolling tour (many short up sections followed by a short ski down on the skins each time). Having to take the ski off to lock the heel or ski down with free heels on skins was a pain. Of course sod's law dictated that this was my first ever tour on dynafits. ..... but that's once in circa 10 years of touring including many weekend tours. Unless you can do a fancy trick you need to take the skis off when taking the skins off anyway so it isn't such a big advantage.
Dynafit are much better on the way up - lower weight, better pivot point. Ski better on the way down, less lateral flex & lower on the ski. As far as I am aware the Fritschi release isn't better than Marker or way ahead of dynafit. Very rarely come out of my bindings but on the ocassions where the dynafits needed to release (e.g skiing into a snow hole) they have done.
Flaine skier,
Do let us know how the Fritschi's compare to the Marker F12's.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
I'm going to go against the grain and say that I'd choose some Marker F10s or F12s for what you are planning to do. For pure touring, Dynafits every time, but I like the option to use my alpine boots, step in convenience and a bit of elasticity. They don't tour as well as dynafits, but they certainly tour well enough
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
I just got the Atomic Trackers mounted on my skis. They really do feel totally solid and very easy to flip between tour and ski modes. Heavy for long tours, but most of my touring is only for an hour or two. I'll probably get Dynafits on a light touring ski if I get into longer trips.
I did try touring on some of the older Fritchis and didn't feel very connected to the skis on descending clumpy and heavy forest snow.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Thanks again for your posts - it's all really helpful. Like I said earlier, having really thought about what I'll be using the skis for (almost entirely touring), I've now gone for Dynafit Vertical STs and I do feel that this was the right decision. I expect to be doing 3-4 weeks off-piste and touring later in the season so will let you know how I got on once I'm back.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
..... but that's once in circa 10 years of touring including many weekend tours. Unless you can do a fancy trick you need to take the skis off when taking the skins off anyway so it isn't such a big advantage.
